# 1 dead, 3 injured in shooting at a Harlem park **URL:** \ **Category:** Shift518 Off Topic\ **Created:** [July 26, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520 "2012-07-26T14:05:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pitman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4da419/32.png) [@pitman](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/pitman)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/41 "2012-08-05T00:02:38Z")
> [@happy b-day MINDLESS](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/happy-b-day-mindless/50281/10): > > laws don’t work. i edited this ^ if we have laws and people still break the law. why have laws in the beginning? would you rather be surrounded by bad people with some laws “protecting” you or be surrounded by good people with no laws? i would rather have good people without the laws. if the person is a good person he shouldnt need a law telling him to be good. he should just be good the paper means nothing more than a way to earn some $$$ ---
**Author:** ![silverandslow1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@silverandslow1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/silverandslow1)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/42 "2012-08-05T05:23:12Z")
> [@garage floor epoxy](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/garage-floor-epoxy/50357/4): > > Are you trained in such matters? > > So in this case an untrained civilian would have been just another target. Gotcha. yes and maybe they would have been maybe they wouldn’t. > And as far as your trained experts placing shots, within how many shots should they be able to take down an attacker? It’s a trick question as I’ll bring up previous similar incidents where you won’t like the numbers of shots fired by “trained personel” trying to take such attackers down in broad day light without being ambushed or under tear gas effects. A trained professional will take more shots…so your statitics mean nothing. And thats not what a trick question is…its a question where you think taking more shots is a bad thing when its not. EDIT: In this scenario more shots will be taken diff scenarios require diff things > Edit: better yet let’s get straight to the point, bullshit me your reasoning as why California bank shootout doesn’t blow your theory out of the water. > > :pop Ever seen a police officer killed by an untrained civilian? I’ve seen a police officer shot once with a 22 in the upper body while wearing body armor and die. One incident doesn’t prove that the people in the theatre wouldn’t have stood a better chance if someone had a gun of their own that used it. Could a gun owner have tried and failed? Yes Could they have succeeded? Yes. The fact that you for some reason think its impossible to overcome body armor is silly. It happens. You give me one one example of people in body armor, I could give you dozens of examples of people wearing body armor dieing being shot with handguns dieing. ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 8:04am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/43 "2012-08-05T08:04:03Z")
Could Jesus came in and blocked all the bullets? Sure, you have enough “could” and “ifs” in your argument to become a politician. Statistics are useless only if you chose to be ignorant of them and refuse to accept that there are situations when having a firearm on you wouldn’t have done shit. > It is estimated that the risk of dying from gunfire is 14 times higher for an officer not wearing a ballistic vest than for one who is. [http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display\_arch&article\_id=1643&issue\_id=102008](http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1643&issue_id=102008) > Since the police handguns could not penetrate the bank robbers’ body armor, the patrol officers’ bullets were ineffective. SWAT eventually arrived with rifles powerful enough to penetrate the body armor. > **[North Hollywood shootout](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout)** > > The North Hollywood shootout, also known as the Battle of North Hollywood, was a confrontation between two heavily armed and armored bank robbers, Larry Phillips Jr. and Emil Mătăsăreanu, and members of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) in the North Hollywood district of Los Angeles, California, United States on February 28, 1997. Both robbers were killed, twelve police officers and eight civilians were injured, and numerous vehicles and other property were damaged or destroyed by the n > nearly 2,000 rounds of ammunition fired by the robbers and the police.[2] I can’t even fathom how twisted your mind has to be to try to keep arguing against this. A man with a well thought out plan, ambushes a theater armed to the teeth and disorienting the public as well as killing their visibility and vision by tear gas. If this is so innefective where a lone gunman can kill an attacker in a situation listed above you might want to write a letter to swat teams and tell them their plan is innefective and they will all be killed by a maybe trained, maybe not person with a 9mm. And just for the record, this is your argument as it sits " **If** one person **COULD** have been trained and **IF** they decided not to do what most responsible gun owners on firearms would (not take shots in a crowded panicking theater with low visibility but rather run out and make post against the door) and **IF** they had a conceal carry **gas mask** and didn’t panic in such an ambush (where even trained military personel panics) he **COULD** have possibly penetrated body armor or have gotten a headshot. :crackup I got a more likely scenario for you. IF they all bought lottery tickets and won, they could have their own theater and not get shot!!& :ponder ---
**Author:** ![silverandslow1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@silverandslow1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/silverandslow1)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/44 "2012-08-05T12:55:10Z")
> [@Mark's SRT re-do -- no traction at all slight\_smile page 5](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/marks-srt-re-do-no-traction-at-all-page-5/49901/73): > > Could Jesus came in and blocked all the bullets? Sure, you have enough “could” and “ifs” in your argument to become a politician. > > Statistics are useless only if you chose to be ignorant of them and refuse to accept that there are situations when having a firearm on you wouldn’t have done shit. > > [http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display\_arch&article\_id=1643&issue\_id=102008](http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1643&issue_id=102008) > > [North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout) > > I can’t even fathom how twisted your mind has to be to try to keep arguing against this. A man with a well thought out plan, ambushes a theater armed to the teeth and disorienting the public as well as killing their visibility and vision by tear gas. > > If this is so innefective where a lone gunman can kill an attacker in a situation listed above you might want to write a letter to swat teams and tell them their plan is innefective and they will all be killed by a maybe trained, maybe not person with a 9mm. > > And just for the record, this is your argument as it sits > > " **If** one person **COULD** have been trained and **IF** they decided not to do what most responsible gun owners on firearms would (not take shots in a crowded panicking theater with low visibility but rather run out and make post against the door) and **IF** they had a conceal carry **gas mask** and didn’t panic in such an ambush (where even trained military personel panics) he **COULD** have possibly penetrated body armor or have gotten a headshot. > > :crackup > > I got a more likely scenario for you. > > IF they all bought lottery tickets and won, they could have their own theater and not get shot!!& :ponder None of those are my arguments…I just said you can’t just assume that an armed citizen would have had no luck against him. Your trying to say theres no chance a concealed gun carrier would have made a difference…you nor I know that. Maybe this would have been the 1 time out of 14 where a round would have slipped under the gunmans vest. And there you go again with things I didnt say. How is SWAT ineffective? They wear vests and use tactics in order to lower the chance of being injured or killed…theres always a risk. They don’t become invinsible targets just becuase they wear vests thats what you dont seem to get. Case in point, even when swat has used flashbangs, gas, while wearing level 3 body armor and body bunkers, with military style rifles, some have been killed unfortunatly so its possible. You also don’t understand I’m conceding that a person with a handgun most likely wouldn’t have been able to stop this person but your argument is absolute saying theres NO chance a person would have stopped him Im saying there is a chance, no matter how small it would have been higher than having noone armed. PS: Chance with no gun vs a gunmen with a vest is prolly alot lower than 1 out of 14 with one. ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/45 "2012-08-05T19:32:47Z")
Great another shooting today. Never ending debate goes on… ---
**Author:** ![silverandslow1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@silverandslow1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/silverandslow1)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 6:01am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/46 "2012-08-06T06:01:42Z")
and a couple stabbings…we should prolly make knives illegal for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 6:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/47 "2012-08-06T06:44:12Z")
> [@garage floor epoxy](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/garage-floor-epoxy/50357/11): > > and a couple stabbings…we should prolly make knives illegal for everyone. We should all have rocket launchers for self defense. ---
**Author:** ![silverandslow1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@silverandslow1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/silverandslow1)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/48 "2012-08-06T20:00:03Z")
but most people cant afford rocket launchers, and they aren practical which is why you don’t see a huge outcry for their legalization. ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/49 "2012-08-06T20:55:20Z")
> [@silverandslow1"](#): > > but most people cant afford rocket launchers, and they aren practical which is why you don’t see a huge outcry for their legalization. Doesnt matter. Should be legal. Same with full auto and silencers everywhere. Why not. ---
**Author:** ![silverandslow1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@silverandslow1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/silverandslow1)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/50 "2012-08-07T05:58:06Z")
> [@Vovchandr"](#): > > Doesnt matter. > > Should be legal. > > Same with full auto and silencers everywhere. Why not. I have no problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Cossey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Cossey](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Cossey)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 7:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/51 "2012-08-07T07:23:34Z")
I agree. Everyone should have suppressors. It’ll stop noise complaints near ranges a bit, as well as reduce the amount of hearing-related injuries involved in the sport. ---
**Author:** ![d\_gage](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/d_gage/32/6321_2.png) [@d\_gage](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/d_gage)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/52 "2012-08-07T07:38:59Z")
get a room you two, and alternate who fucks who 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jammer](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jammer/32/6349_2.png) [@Jammer](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jammer)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/53 "2012-08-07T10:59:20Z")
> [@FS: 96 Accord 2dr 5spd](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-96-accord-2dr-5spd/39495/54): > > **Video** can be found here. > > [http://gawker.com/5929262/here-is-crappy-footage-of-last-nights-shooting-at-harlems-rucker-park](http://gawker.com/5929262/here-is-crappy-footage-of-last-nights-shooting-at-harlems-rucker-park) > > So let’s see a man acquires a gun where nobody is supposed to have guns - Liberal Fail. > > A man goes on such a quick shooting spree that even if somebody in the crowd had a gun, it would have changed nothing - Conservative Fail > > If anybody brings up an argument of this would have never happened if others were armed nobody would go shooting - I can bring up a ton of articles where people go on rampages of shooting at the cops and the controversial shootings in military bases. - conservative logic fail. > > Point - too many idiots have guns… Leave now Commie ---
**Author:** ![Jammer](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jammer/32/6349_2.png) [@Jammer](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jammer)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/54 "2012-08-07T10:59:56Z")
> [@Callout: Mindless or any 11sec or better cars. slight\_smile](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/callout-mindless-or-any-11sec-or-better-cars/48316/882): > > thats what it comes down to… stupid people should not have guns Yay! we agree. Mark the date and time! ---
**Author:** ![Jammer](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jammer/32/6349_2.png) [@Jammer](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jammer)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 11:03am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/55 "2012-08-07T11:03:24Z")
No homes should have stairs. People fall down them, others get pushed. Raze all the Projects and lets build a few million ranch homes over our flatlands. NO MORE STAIRS. NO MORE STAIRS. If we didnt have them, more peole would live. Ban the stairs. Ban the stairs… ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2012, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/56 "2012-08-07T11:09:11Z")
> [@FS: 96 Accord 2dr 5spd](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-96-accord-2dr-5spd/39495/54): > > Point - too many idiots have guns… > [@Mark's SRT re-do -- no traction at all slight\_smile page 5](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/marks-srt-re-do-no-traction-at-all-page-5/49901/93): > > Leave now Commie > [@Callout: Mindless or any 11sec or better cars. slight\_smile](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/callout-mindless-or-any-11sec-or-better-cars/48316/882): > > thats what it comes down to… stupid people should not have guns > [@The best damn thread NYSPEED's seen in months! v.Fry\>\*](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-best-damn-thread-nyspeeds-seen-in-months-v-fry/50398/7): > > Yay! we agree. Mark the date and time! Are you playing stupid or reading is too much for you? Guess that makes you a Commie, should I change your title now or later? ---
**Author:** ![toomanycamaros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@toomanycamaros](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/toomanycamaros)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/57 "2012-08-08T09:13:34Z")
> [@The time is coming, v. New car ideas?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-time-is-coming-v-new-car-ideas/50363/2): > > None of those are my arguments…I just said you can’t just assume that an armed citizen would have had no luck against him. Your trying to say theres no chance a concealed gun carrier would have made a difference…you nor I know that. Maybe this would have been the 1 time out of 14 where a round would have slipped under the gunmans vest. > > And there you go again with things I didnt say. How is SWAT ineffective? They wear vests and use tactics in order to lower the chance of being injured or killed…theres always a risk. They don’t become invinsible targets just becuase they wear vests thats what you dont seem to get. Case in point, even when swat has used flashbangs, gas, while wearing level 3 body armor and body bunkers, with military style rifles, some have been killed unfortunatly so its possible. > > You also don’t understand I’m conceding that a person with a handgun most likely wouldn’t have been able to stop this person but your argument is absolute saying theres NO chance a person would have stopped him Im saying there is a chance, no matter how small it would have been higher than having noone armed. > > PS: Chance with no gun vs a gunmen with a vest is prolly alot lower than 1 out of 14 with one. Even 2-3 shots placed on center mass could have knocked the gun man out of the fight. Just because the round doesn’t pentrate the body armor doesn’t mean the kinetic energy is gone. The physical trauma enacted on the body from the rapid deceleration of the round can break ribs and cause internal bleeding. I bet some heavy internal hemoraging or a collapsed lung would have slowed him down quite a bit. Even if one armed citizen could have stopped him half way through the rampage it would still haven’t ment lifes saved. just my .02 though ---
**Author:** ![matteg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b77776/32.png) [@matteg](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/matteg)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 5:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520/58 "2012-08-13T05:34:40Z")
> [@FS: 1998 Honda CR-V AWD $3600 smiling\_facesmiling\_facesmiling\_face](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-1998-honda-cr-v-awd-3600/50252/15): > > Cause trained cops in daylight only take one shot in all situations, even against unarmored enemies right??? Cause they don’t have right training? > > One shot one kill man. Within 5 seconds, without even judging situations. > > . cant go leaving people alive to testify against them… i think new yorks excessive gun control is bullshit. i just waited 8 months to get my pistol permit. never been arrested, good job, homeowner etc… bad people who want guns will have guns. no matter what law is in place. all the laws do is fuck over good people from being able to defend themselves. and nyc for example sucks my ass. ok the counter argument is that some shootings are done with legally obtained guns. ok true can win them all, but if they were easier to legally obtain then the hope is more people at these shooting events would be armed and take down the gunman. as for the people shooting each other in harlem at a basketball game… hah come on what did u think would happen? seriously stop being ignorant because you are afraid of social backlash. living in the mid hudson valley i get the nyc stations and watch the nyc news daily. holy crap, id say 80% of the crimes are done by 20% of the population if you get what im saying. sure every demographic commits crimes at some point but this crap is pretty overwhelming. like when ray kelly called out the “community leaders” to step up and protest the black on black crime a few weeks ago. he is right and they finally did, but it took some good media coverage and pressure to finally do it. cliffs notes: black on black crime - leaders are silent anyone but black on black crime - end of the fucking world. this needs to change. crime is crime and its bad all the way around [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/1-dead-3-injured-in-shooting-at-a-harlem-park/264520.md?page=2)