# Another overpromised underdelivered hybrid (Fisker Karma) **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [October 19, 2011, 5:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624 "2011-10-19T05:44:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/21 "2012-03-12T18:30:22Z")
glad to see they are out and about… ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/22 "2012-10-18T06:52:03Z")
For those interested, here’s a good read about the A123 bankruptcy (after getting $132 million in taxpayer money) and how their manufacturing was responsible for the Karma recall since this car used their batteries: > **[A123 Shows Risks as Battery Science Meets Government Cash](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-10-17/a123-shows-risks-as-battery-science-meets-government-cash)** > > A123 Systems Inc., the electric-car battery maker that filed for bankruptcy this week, had promising chemistry and marquee customers. What it couldn’t overcome, even with government funding, were missteps in manufacturing. I still like these cars: ![http://www.autoweek.com/storyimage/CW/20120813/CARNEWS/120819937/AR/0/fisker-karma.jpg](http://www.autoweek.com/storyimage/CW/20120813/CARNEWS/120819937/AR/0/fisker-karma.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![LAFENGAS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/lafengas/32/7573_2.png) [@LAFENGAS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LAFENGAS)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/23 "2012-10-18T07:13:19Z")
Hmm… they expanded the Fisker Dealership here and broke away from their Aston Martin showroom. It’s still under construction. Their sales are strong here. I see them all the time now! So somebody loves them. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/24 "2012-10-18T09:04:50Z")
From the article… “Brilliant scientists can develop the chemistry and the engineering behind these cells, but manufacturing them is a completely different thing,” AutoPacific’s Kim said. “That requires a completely different set of expertise. Just because there were some very brilliant minds that developed the cells, that didn’t in any way guarantee that they would be manufactured to the proper standard, and obviously they weren’t.” I love how scientists are desribed as brilliant twice but manufacturing people (you know the ones who have to fix all of the design flaws on the fly) will never get their deserved credit. Sincerely, Manufacturing Guy 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/25 "2012-10-18T10:31:31Z")
fyi 1, these phosphate-based cathodes have to be calendered to a much thinner thickness than the competing cathode active materials. I’m not sure if that is related to the manufacturing defect, but I’d suspect that it makes it more difficult to produce. fyi 2, the powder plant (where LFP is made for these batteries) is in China, whereas cell assembly is in Michigan. fyi 3, they have way too much production capacity. The writing has been on the wall for at least two years now, and I’m no expert… ---
**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/26 "2012-12-08T13:10:18Z")
Well, well, well… > **[A123 auction: Wanxiang wins auction for assets of bankrupt battery-maker](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-08/business/chi-wanxiang-wins-auction-for-assets-of-battery-maker-a123-20121208_1_wanxiang-a123-chinese-auto-parts-maker)** > > Chinese firm Wanxiang emerged as the winning bidder of bankrupt battery-maker A123's assets after a days long auction that lasted until nearly 4 a.m. Saturday. The sale of A123, which was awarded a... I wonder if they will be allowed to participate in the energy storage research hub at Argonne. ---
**Author:** ![Coldaccord](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/coldaccord/32/7272_2.png) [@Coldaccord](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Coldaccord)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/27 "2012-12-08T22:36:11Z")
^it’s interesting: their folly with Fisker was not in the design aspect but production. And the main motivator behind their decline? Chevy initially promised them the contract for the Volt, then declined because overseas manufacturing was cheaper, sending them into a tailspin. Even prior to that they were originally promised the contract for the Saturn VUE hybrid which went defunct as Saturn did, then Chevy Volt which also went down the tubes. With Obama’s sustainable energy research investment, their initial buyout by the Chinese company was dissuaded in favor of American ownership to protect the government’s investment. Ironically, it was American companies’ outsourcing that put them in the awful financial situation they are in. This (battery technology) is the way of the future. American businesses just fucked over American business. ---
**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/28 "2012-12-09T13:23:09Z")
Hmm. I don’t think the Volt contract found the chink in A123’s armor. LG Chem won that project and their Michigan manufacturing site is sitting in standby mode right now. We don’t actually know any of the specifics behind why A123 was not given the Volt contract. Supplier quality is such a huge issue that I’d guess GM wanted a supplier with an actual track record. It is anyone’s bet which chemistry will prevail for powering EVs. Lithium-ion might gain implementation in hybrid and plug-in hybrid applications, but driving the energy density higher might require multivalent batteries and new electrode configurations. ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/29 "2013-01-14T14:29:33Z")
Bob Lutz can fix anything, just throw a V8 in it > **[Bob Lutz brings Destino, a ZR1-powered Karma, to Detroit](https://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/14/vl-automotive-destino-detroit-2013/)** > > There's nothing wrong with the Fisker Karma that a honkin' American V8 engine won't fix. At least according to Bob Lutz, it seems. Called the VL Automotive Destino, this machine is the brainchild of industrialist Gilbert Villereal and the... ![http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/01/000-vl-automotive-destino-opt.jpg](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/01/000-vl-automotive-destino-opt.jpg) ZR1 powered Karma ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/30 "2013-01-14T14:49:22Z")
Oh really? :mpd: ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/31 "2013-02-19T15:17:51Z")
Yay… :pedo2: > China’s Geely currently looks best positioned to profit from U.S. government largesse by buying beleaguered and DOE-funded plug-in car maker Fisker > > In 2009, Fisker received a $528.7 million conditional loan from the DOE. After drawing down $193 million, the credit line was frozen, following a series of scandals surrounding other DOE recipients. Production was shut down in summer of 2012 while fresh capital was sought. The financial troubles of Fisker’s battery supplier A123 gave Fisker another reason not to restart production. A123, another recipient of DOE largesse, was sold off to China. > > Which is where DOE recipients appear to get outsourced to. > **[Fisker Will Be Chinese, One Way Or The Other](https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/02/fisker-will-be-chinese-one-way-or-the-other/)** > > Not Dongfeng, but China’s Geely currently looks best positioned to profit from U.S. government largesse by buying beleaguered and DOE- funded plug-in car maker Fisker, Reuters reports. According to the report, “Zhejiang Geely Holding Group is favored... [http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/18/us-china-auto-idUSBRE91H05G20130218](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/18/us-china-auto-idUSBRE91H05G20130218) ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 7:11am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/32 "2013-03-26T07:11:40Z")
So founder Henrik Fisker has left the company and they need money… > When Henrik Fisker left last week, all we knew was that he “disagreed on business strategy” with the management, code for “board-room brawl, founder leaves in a huff.” Now we know where the disagreement was. It was whether to ask Uncle Sam or Auntie Zhang for money. > According to Reuters, Fisker and CEO Tony Posawatz could agree that the company needs money, lots of it. > Now for the hard part: Where to get the money. > Posawatz, a former GM man, was for hitting up the Department of Energy again to unlock access to a $529 million federal loan. DOE had blocked the loan, supposedly due to the delays in the launch of the Karma, but ostensibly because those loans became a hot potato. > Fisker, says Reuters, “was opposed to relying on additional federal funds.” The article did not say where Fisker wanted to get the money from, the guess is China. With Geely out of the running, the only Chinese suitor seems to be Dongfeng. If Dongfeng gets Fisker, effectively the Chinese government would give the money. Donfeng is owned by China’s central government. > Both strategies smell of desperation. The formerly generous DOE does not want to get caught in the cross-fire again. The Chinese are tight with money and usually buy when the company gets bust, see A123 etc. ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/33 "2013-04-01T11:45:02Z")
Just a funny photochop: ![http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18j0e50dudeu7jpg/k-bigpic.jpg](http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18j0e50dudeu7jpg/k-bigpic.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 8:28am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/34 "2013-04-05T08:28:57Z")
They just fired their whole PR team and many other employees > **[Fisker PR team and many other employees face layoff this morning \[UPDATE\]](https://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/05/fisker-pr-team-and-many-other-employees-face-layoff-this-morning/)** > > The entirety of the public relations team at Fisker is about to be laid off. That's according to an email Autoblog received this morning from a credible source stating that the entire PR team, along with a large number of other Fisker employees will... ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/35 "2013-04-24T07:34:20Z")
Henrik Fisker is going in front of Congress today, along with a few others involved. Should be interesting. How long do you guy think before these cars are worth nothing? And I can buy one for pennies and swap in a V8… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 7:39am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/36 "2013-04-24T07:39:52Z")
> **[House Republicans demand answers about possible missed signs on Fisker loan](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/24/obama-administration-had-advance-warning-on-fisker.html)** > > Fisker Automotive Inc. defaulted on a federal loan that cost U.S. taxpayers nearly $200 million, but congressional Republicans focused Wednesday on the Obama administration, asking why officials appeared to overlooked deadlines and other possible red... ---
**Author:** ![02NismoSpecV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/0/74df32/32.png) [@02NismoSpecV](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/02NismoSpecV)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 8:02am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/37 "2013-04-24T08:02:34Z")
one was parked next to the caddy at the regal on elmwood last night when i got out of the movies ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/38 "2013-04-24T08:09:01Z")
> [@02NismoSpecV](#): > > one was parked next to the caddy at the regal on elmwood last night when i got out of the movies … And if it caught fire, your car would have been the first victim! ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 8:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/39 "2013-04-24T08:38:44Z")
> [@Onyx Z32](#): > > Henrik Fisker is going in front of Congress today, along with a few others involved. Should be interesting. > > How long do you guy think before these cars are worth nothing? And I can buy one for pennies and swap in a V8… 🙂 Yeah I wonder what Lutz company would offer for the design and tooling to build the bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 12:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624/40 "2013-04-24T12:26:21Z")
Someone should do it. They’re beautiful looking cars in person. They’d sell no matter what engine was under the hood. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-overpromised-underdelivered-hybrid-fisker-karma/217624.md?page=3)