# Are you kidding? GM insanity inside. **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [January 17, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024 "2008-01-17T20:13:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 5:48am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/21 "2008-01-18T05:48:21Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > You also need to get him good handlers so he doesn’t say stupid shit to the press, which apparently GM hasn’t figured out yet. > > I still think the new guidelines aren’t going to be that hard to meet, especially given the long timetable. Put a couple plug in hybrids into your lineup and watch their insanely high EPA test loop numbers bring up the average of all your other vehicles. M’f’n word. I like Lutz actually, have for a while. I’m impressed with quite a bit of his work. Its just that repeated faux paux such as these do not help the image with americas soccor moms & american idol fans who don’t know their own assholes from a hole in the wall unless the talking heads on the walmart flatscreen tv tell them so… bah. ---
**Author:** ![POOPRA](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/poopra/32/7188_2.png) [@POOPRA](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/POOPRA)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/22 "2008-01-18T05:58:01Z")
Hybrids are more expensive to produce, so if they have to produce more mpg friendly cars, they will have to make more hybrids. ---
**Author:** ![Oroc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c68b51/32.png) [@Oroc](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Oroc)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 6:15am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/23 "2008-01-18T06:15:35Z")
> [@POOPRA](#): > > Hybrids are more expensive to produce, so if they have to produce more mpg friendly cars, they will have to make more hybrids. And i heard in a report that when u break it down your not really saving anything by going with a hybrid. When u average out the extra cost vs the gas your saving it comes out that its cheaper to go with a regular gas powered car. pretty interesting. mike ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 6:15am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/24 "2008-01-18T06:15:50Z")
> [@97\_B18b1](#): > > o god they cant get their na motors right, if they try to go turbo its gonna be a disaster :gtfo: :ham: ---
**Author:** ![Bacon](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bacon/32/7230_2.png) [@Bacon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Bacon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/25 "2008-01-18T06:16:27Z")
> [@97\_B18b1](#): > > o god they cant get their na motors right, if they try to go turbo its gonna be a disaster Yeah because there has never been a GM with a turbo before. :bloated: ---
**Author:** ![LZ1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LZ1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LZ1)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/26 "2008-01-18T06:19:01Z")
> [@97\_B18b1](#): > > o god they cant get their na motors right, if they try to go turbo its gonna be a disaster GM Can’t get their NA motors right?? :gtfo: ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 6:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/27 "2008-01-18T06:27:19Z")
> [@FormulaLS1](#): > > GM Can’t get their NA motors right?? :gtfo: well, technically the LS motors were built by the hands of God… sooooo ---
**Author:** ![LZ1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LZ1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LZ1)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 6:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/28 "2008-01-18T06:27:57Z")
> [@Dr.Stevil](#): > > well, technically the LS motors were built by the hands of God… sooooo Good call :tup: Jesus built my hotrod ---
**Author:** ![QuasiMondo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ac8455/32.png) [@QuasiMondo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/QuasiMondo)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 6:46am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/29 "2008-01-18T06:46:53Z")
> [@97\_B18b1](#): > > o god they cant get their na motors right, if they try to go turbo its gonna be a disaster I wonder of people remember that the H.O. Quad4 was only 5 horses shy of what a stock 4G63 turbo put out during the same period. Or that they’ve had no problems turboing 3.8 and 4.3L V6’s with no problem. ---
**Author:** ![93dx\_hatch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/9/90ced4/32.png) [@93dx\_hatch](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/93dx_hatch)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 6:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/30 "2008-01-18T06:50:01Z")
> [@Oroc](#): > > And i heard in a report that when u break it down your not really saving anything by going with a hybrid. When u average out the extra cost vs the gas your saving it comes out that its cheaper to go with a regular gas powered car. pretty interesting. > > mike there was a post on this, people also said buying a new TDI was not cost effective unless you drive XXX,XXX amount of miles. I am not big on hybrids but i know buying a TDI is def worth is because it is worth much more than the comparable gasser when used that said, gm should just put a 4cyl turbo diesel in the impala, malibu, cobalt etc. ---
**Author:** ![vt1992s10](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/73ab20/32.png) [@vt1992s10](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/vt1992s10)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/31 "2008-01-18T07:09:00Z")
> [@97\_B18b1](#): > > o god they cant get their na motors right, if they try to go turbo its gonna be a disaster ![http://www.gmphotostore.com/images/53218384_pr.jpg](http://www.gmphotostore.com/images/53218384_pr.jpg) :eyebrow: could have fooled me on another note, its not just because of the development inside GM it is all the supplier BS that goes on, and because a lot of them are moving outside the country. There are a lot more costs then the development of motors. I see other companies also raising their prices. On hybrids it depends on what type of driving you do, and how many miles a year will result in how effective/cost savings paying for the hybrid is going to be. The time of return on the hybrid investment, I did calcs amd if I got a hybrid civic it would take ~9 years to see a benifit 22600 for base hybrid (40/45mpg) and 15010 for a base(25/36 mpg). ---
**Author:** ![POOPRA](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/poopra/32/7188_2.png) [@POOPRA](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/POOPRA)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 7:36am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/32 "2008-01-18T07:36:08Z")
> [@Oroc](#): > > And i heard in a report that when u break it down your not really saving anything by going with a hybrid. When u average out the extra cost vs the gas your saving it comes out that its cheaper to go with a regular gas powered car. pretty interesting. > > mike Interesting comparision would be a regular civic that gets 29 combined mpg vs a hybrid that gets 42 combined mpg. Over a year driving 15K you would save approximately $493 dollars. You can get a regular civic for 15K or a hybrid for 23K. So you have to drive the hybrid 16 years to make up the difference in price for thy money you will save on gas. Keep in mind that the batteries in hybrids do not last 16 years. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 7:49am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/33 "2008-01-18T07:49:22Z")
> [@Oroc](#): > > And i heard in a report that when u break it down your not really saving anything by going with a hybrid. When u average out the extra cost vs the gas your saving it comes out that its cheaper to go with a regular gas powered car. pretty interesting. > > mike Look, my post about GM making some plug in hybrids wasn’t suggesting anyone should buy them. GM should make them, let stupid people buy them, and it lowers their CAFE considerably letting the rest of us buy the vehicles we want with the engines we want. ---
**Author:** ![POOPRA](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/poopra/32/7188_2.png) [@POOPRA](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/POOPRA)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 7:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/34 "2008-01-18T07:57:04Z")
Heres another calc, because Im bored Say you want to keep a car for 8 years, and you drive 15 K a year. You buy a new civic for 15 K, sell it 8 years later with 120K on it for at least 5K. You average 29 mpg, so you pay about 15K for all the gas you put into it. Total cost = 25K. You buy a hybrid civic for 23K, sell it 8 years later for 3 K because that batteries are about to die. You average 42 mpg, so you pay 10K for all the gas. Total cost 30K ---
**Author:** ![93dx\_hatch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/9/90ced4/32.png) [@93dx\_hatch](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/93dx_hatch)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 8:21am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/35 "2008-01-18T08:21:47Z")
^ your argument has no facts to back it up, its just you talking out of your ass. find me a 2000 hybrid for 3k? ---
**Author:** ![nappy1380](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nappy1380/32/7502_2.png) [@nappy1380](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/nappy1380)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 8:29am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/36 "2008-01-18T08:29:40Z")
here is a nice addition to piss everyone off. Our lovely president only agreed to pass this law about MPG if congress agreed to pass a law that gave big oil companies ANOTHER tax break! SO now the consumer has to pay even more money while big oil gets to put more in their pocket. Thanks Bush :tup: ---
**Author:** ![jkucz28](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jkucz28/32/7503_2.png) [@jkucz28](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/jkucz28)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 8:32am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/37 "2008-01-18T08:32:19Z")
> [@93dx--hatch](#): > > ^ your argument has no facts to back it up, its just you talking out of your ass. find me a 2000 hybrid for 3k? +1 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 8:37am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/38 "2008-01-18T08:37:36Z")
First I’ve heard about that stipulation, but you can also thank congress :tdown: ---
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 8:39am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/39 "2008-01-18T08:39:07Z")
> [@POOPRA](#): > > Heres another calc, because Im bored > > Say you want to keep a car for 8 years, and you drive 15 K a year. > > You buy a new civic for 15 K, sell it 8 years later with 120K on it for at least 5K. You average 29 mpg, so you pay about 15K for all the gas you put into it. Total cost = 25K. > > You buy a hybrid civic for 23K, sell it 8 years later for 3 K because that batteries are about to die. You average 42 mpg, so you pay 10K for all the gas. Total cost 30K > [@93dx--hatch](#): > > ^ your argument has no facts to back it up, its just you talking out of your ass. find me a 2000 hybrid for 3k? even if you adjust those numbers and say that the used hybrid would go for 8k, its a break even, and at to be generous, 10k your only saving 2k over what? 8 years. Then factor in repair costs which are likely super high, and you cost of ownership is probably back to being a loss over a gas powered equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![BooSting](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b19c9b/32.png) [@BooSting](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BooSting)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024/40 "2008-01-18T08:47:45Z")
> [@nappy1380](#): > > here is a nice addition to piss everyone off. Our lovely president only agreed to pass this law about MPG if congress agreed to pass a law that gave big oil companies ANOTHER tax break! > > SO now the consumer has to pay even more money while big oil gets to put more in their pocket. Thanks Bush :tup: You don’t like it? Don’t drive as much. Capitalism \> socialism. Buy stock in big oil 😉 [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/are-you-kidding-gm-insanity-inside/42024.md?page=3)