# Casino Decision Day **URL:** \ **Category:** PittSpeed Off Topic\ **Created:** [December 20, 2006, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928 "2006-12-20T07:27:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bics56](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bics56](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bics56)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/61 "2006-12-20T12:27:49Z")
> [@Benefit for my daughter April 14th.](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/benefit-for-my-daughter-april-14th/24487/70): > > what it comes down to is that we had a plan that gave us a new $260mill arena for FREE and also 100% secured our hockey team here and we denied it…real fucking smart. WRONG 290 mil…and “we” didnt deny it…some it came down to 290 mil dosnt compare to a few mil in a few people’s pockets ---
**Author:** ![OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/olds_rocketman/32/5942_2.png) [@OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/OLDS_ROCKETMAN)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/62 "2006-12-20T12:28:30Z")
> [@i need more bad 80's songs](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-need-more-bad-80s-songs/26696/45): > > What you say about winning is pretty much tru for most markets…but to say the student rush is stupid make no sense. Like Chad said it will help make money now and incease chances for having future season ticket holders. There is not one bad thing about student rush. Also it is clear the Pens are rebuilding and doing a damn fine job of it and will have an insane team int he next few years. the student rush is fine in that it gets people in that spend more money on food BUT its not a permanant answer. Idealy you want those seats that would normally be empty to be bought up by people looking for season tickets. season ticket money is garenteed…walk up isn’t. walk ups are usaully based on team play, other current happenings in the city… season ticket is upfront and increases ur revenue to spend on players. i have meetings about this shit everymonth with VP of marketing. I’m not sayin i know it all or that everything i say is right but i think being in this field i might have more insight on the topic. student rush is nothing more than a band-aid… a stop leak …short term solution to a problem of lacking sales. the penguins should want what the steelers have which is about 95-97% of their seats is season tickets… the rest of the 5% is just to leave open to appeaze the general public who can’t get access to season tickets. baseball just has to many games to ever have %100 season ticket sales. people can’t make 81 dates when you have a young family. but the still same holds true, get people to commit to some sort of a package that is garentted money. full season all the way down to a 8 game plan. ---
**Author:** ![Hycomp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Hycomp](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Hycomp)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/63 "2006-12-20T12:48:56Z")
I think most of you are missing the biggest point of a new arena, as was a big selling point of Heinz and PNC, luxury boxes or their equivalent. Companies and firms pay huge amounts of money up front for those things. One luxury box for a season is more than a ton of season tickets bought by the average Joe. Last I heard (as I haven’tlived in the Pittsburgh area for 1 1/2 years now) is that there is no place to put luxury boxes in the Igloo. Pittsburgh is a relatively small market for the average fan base but has a decent number of deep pocketed company’s and firms that will shell out loot for luxury amenities. A half full arena with a sold out supply of luxury boxes will bring in more money than a full regular seating arena with no luxury boxes. As for the references for Madison Square Garden and Boston Garden, those venues are located in areas with huge fan bases where ticket prices were huge which is the only reason they could survive. ---
**Author:** ![OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/olds_rocketman/32/5942_2.png) [@OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/OLDS_ROCKETMAN)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/64 "2006-12-20T12:56:34Z")
> [@Suspension shops?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/suspension-shops/26726/6): > > I think most of you are missing the biggest point of a new arena, as was a big selling point of Heinz and PNC, luxury boxes or their equivalent. Companies and firms pay huge amounts of money up front for those things. One luxury box for a season is more than a ton of season tickets bought by the average Joe. Last I heard (as I haven’tlived in the Pittsburgh area for 1 1/2 years now) is that there is no place to put luxury boxes in the Igloo. Pittsburgh is a relatively small market for the average fan base but has a decent number of deep pocketed company’s and firms that will shell out loot for luxury amenities. A half full arena with a sold out supply of luxury boxes will bring in more money than a full regular seating arena with no luxury boxes. As for the references for Madison Square Garden and Boston Garden, those venues are located in areas with huge fan bases where ticket prices were huge which is the only reason they could survive. ummmm if you read this whole thread you would know i talked about luxury boxes especially since i wrote LUXURY BOXES in all caps. ---
**Author:** ![imported\_Sleeper](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/imported_sleeper/32/5939_2.png) [@imported\_Sleeper](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/imported_Sleeper)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/65 "2006-12-20T12:57:31Z")
> [@Find this DSM for me and get a Taco...](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/find-this-dsm-for-me-and-get-a-taco/26712/31): > > ummmm if you read this whole thread you would know i talked about luxury boxes especially since i wrote LUXURY BOXES in all caps. WOAH,Calm down bob:) ---
**Author:** ![OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/olds_rocketman/32/5942_2.png) [@OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/OLDS_ROCKETMAN)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/66 "2006-12-20T12:59:00Z")
> [@Best way to drive from NY to Ireland](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/best-way-to-drive-from-ny-to-ireland/26730/5): > > WOAH,Calm down bob:) i’m fine but read the whole thing since it was already talked about and i talked about it… i want the credit damn it! lol ---
**Author:** ![Bravada\_442](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bravada_442/32/5982_2.png) [@Bravada\_442](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Bravada_442)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/67 "2006-12-20T13:00:54Z")
Anyone here that is an expert or at least has a working knowledge of the economics of sports teams or the economics of buildings and the revenues and expenses they have, please feel free to continue this discussion. Otherwise, shut up, because you have no idea how any of it works. Moving right along, of the people that believe the Pens don’t need a new arena, have any of you been to other arena’s to see hockey games? I’ve been to the RBC Center in Raleigh, Nationwide Center in Columbus, and the First Union Center in Phily. They all absolutely blow the Mellon Arena out of the water in terms of amenities, seating, view (and thats tough because I think that the Arena has great sight lines), and just overall experience. I’ll do some research on the economic impacts of the new arenas on the teams and the local economy and be back to this thread later. ---
**Author:** ![BlkP42E](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blkp42e/32/5938_2.png) [@BlkP42E](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BlkP42E)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/68 "2006-12-20T13:02:18Z")
won’t catch me doin any research 🌑 ---
**Author:** ![OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/olds_rocketman/32/5942_2.png) [@OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/OLDS_ROCKETMAN)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/69 "2006-12-20T13:09:51Z")
you can add amenitites and better seating ( the actual seat structure) to the civic arena. how many ways can you view a hockey game… the ice is the same at every arena so how much better can you see it? and overall expereince…well hockey during the actaull periods doens;t have much down time so what do you need to have when people we be focused on the ice? what could you put in a new arena that is gonna entertain during the intermission that you couldn;t put in mellon arena…a live penguin exhibit? i think you’ll find that a win and loss will be the biggest factor in overall experience. ---
**Author:** ![BlkP42E](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blkp42e/32/5938_2.png) [@BlkP42E](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BlkP42E)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/70 "2006-12-20T13:10:35Z")
> [@Cutty"](#): > > what could you put in a new arena that is gonna entertain during the intermission that you couldn;t put in mellon arena…a live penguin exhibit? that would be awesome ---
**Author:** ![kilmer420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/d6d6ee/32.png) [@kilmer420](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/kilmer420)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/71 "2006-12-20T13:25:11Z")
> [@FS: XBOX 360 games](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-xbox-360-games/26613/10): > > how many for baseball? that was the question and as per this thread, it should’nt matter. > > and they are still the superbowl champions… they don’t take records back if you didn’t know… and they are at .500 now and 3rd in the division… fairweather fans should at least keep up with the current stats > > [2023 NFL Division Standings](http://www.nfl.com/standings) 47K for baseball… superbowl or not it was luck…I am not asking to take away their superbowl just calling a spade a spade…thx for the update mr. espn I know what their stats are…and they are still not doing so hot considering they won a super bowl last year…maybe it shows of how deserving it really was…or maybe it was luck? and for the comment on student rush of baseball games…ROFL…some tickets go for 20-30 bux…that is student rush price…do your own homework 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![kilmer420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/d6d6ee/32.png) [@kilmer420](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/kilmer420)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/72 "2006-12-20T13:29:00Z")
> [@Benefit for my daughter April 14th.](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/benefit-for-my-daughter-april-14th/24487/70): > > what it comes down to is that we had a plan that gave us a new $260mill arena for FREE and also 100% secured our hockey team here and we denied it…real fucking smart. according to the post gazette our mayor is asking mario to pull strings 🙂 ☹ here is to hope and not k.c. penguins … [http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/06354/747594-100.stm](http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/pg/06354/747594-100.stm) Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl and Allegheny County Chief Executive Dan Onorato said at a press conference today that they have already spoken to Mr. Barden and hope to arrange a meeting about his plans as soon as tomorrow. Both said they understood he has reiterated his commitment to helping fund an arena and redevelop the Hill. They also said they are still backing a new arena. ---
**Author:** ![bics56](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bics56](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bics56)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/73 "2006-12-20T13:37:57Z")
> [@FS: 27" Apex TV](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-27-apex-tv/26386/10): > > Anyone here that is an expert or at least has a working knowledge of the economics of sports teams or the economics of buildings and the revenues and expenses they have, please feel free to continue this discussion. Otherwise, shut up, because you have no idea how any of it works. > > Moving right along, of the people that believe the Pens don’t need a new arena, have any of you been to other arena’s to see hockey games? I’ve been to the RBC Center in Raleigh, Nationwide Center in Columbus, and the First Union Center in Phily. They all absolutely blow the Mellon Arena out of the water in terms of amenities, seating, view (and thats tough because I think that the Arena has great sight lines), and just overall experience. > > I’ll do some research on the economic impacts of the new arenas on the teams and the local economy and be back to this thread later. X989794165 ---
**Author:** ![OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/olds_rocketman/32/5942_2.png) [@OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/OLDS_ROCKETMAN)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/74 "2006-12-20T13:38:31Z")
> [@Best way to drive from NY to Ireland](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/best-way-to-drive-from-ny-to-ireland/26730/6): > > 47K for baseball… 47k was what it was with the tarps on the seats, the actaul capacity was 59k. last game at three rivers the tarps were gone. the year big mac and sosa were in the HR race, 1997, the tarps were off those weekends. ---
**Author:** ![bics56](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@bics56](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bics56)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/75 "2006-12-20T13:50:26Z")
> [@Cutty"](#): > > i think you’ll find that a win and loss will be the biggest factor in overall experience. there is some truth there…but do you know how many people who go to the pirate games just b/c of how nice the new park is? I am not saying it is cool to do that but there are a ton of people who do. ---
**Author:** ![FourGee6Tee3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5ac83/32.png) [@FourGee6Tee3](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/FourGee6Tee3)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/76 "2006-12-20T13:54:32Z")
Viva La Pens ---
**Author:** ![Hycomp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Hycomp](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Hycomp)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/77 "2006-12-20T14:03:22Z")
> [@Find this DSM for me and get a Taco...](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/find-this-dsm-for-me-and-get-a-taco/26712/31): > > ummmm if you read this whole thread you would know i talked about luxury boxes especially since i wrote LUXURY BOXES in all caps. Yes but you either don’t get the point of it or else don’t want to admit it. Luxury boxes = $$$. Player’s salaries are the biggest expense of have a winning team and the salaries are determined by the overall market. Certain teams have huge sources of revenue to draw from (huge local fan bases, corporate sponsors/side deals, tv deals, wealthy free-spending owners, etc.) that drive up the player salaries. Pittsburgh is not a large enough population base to sell tickets in peanut heaven for $200 a seat while markets like NY, Chicago, Boston, etc. are large enough to demand those kinds of prices and more (as the cost of living in general in those places are also considerably higher). Pittsburgh does have a decently large base of deep pocketed corporations and firms that are willing to shell out large amounts of money for luxury boxes. So 16,000 fans in an arena with 40 luxury boxes is going to bring in considerably less money than one with say 16,000 fans and 100 luxury boxes, or even one with 40 bigger (higher priced) luxury boxes. The igloo lacks space to put in the number/size of luxury boxes that corporations are willing to shell out the big bucks for (and thus help provide the revenue to keep a competitive team onthe ice), thus why a new arena needs to be built and why just doing some remodeling on the igloo is not really a plausible solution to keep the team in Pittsburgh. ---
**Author:** ![OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/olds_rocketman/32/5942_2.png) [@OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/OLDS_ROCKETMAN)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/78 "2006-12-20T14:06:14Z")
> [@JayS a dad, 3/27/2007](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jays-a-dad-3-27-2007/26711/23): > > there is some truth there…but do you know how many people who go to the pirate games just b/c of how nice the new park is? I am not saying it is cool to do that but there are a ton of people who do. of course i know. thats what we rely on since we know under the current ownership and the way baseball is we can’t compete these are the fans we target… hence the pirogie race and all the other non related baseball bull shit we do… this is why i pretty much hate major league baseball. its a never ending self destructing thing. the yankee don’t do that stuff because they don’t have to. we do. its baseball’s fault. more so the MLBPA. ---
**Author:** ![OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/olds_rocketman/32/5942_2.png) [@OLDS\_ROCKETMAN](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/OLDS_ROCKETMAN)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/79 "2006-12-20T14:08:03Z")
> [@Flag burning ban shot down again.Can you guess how Hilary voted?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flag-burning-ban-shot-down-again-can-you-guess-how-hilary-voted/13890/99): > > Yes but you either don’t get the point of it or else don’t want to admit it. Luxury boxes = $$$. > > Player’s salaries are the biggest expense of have a winning team and the salaries are determined by the overall market. Certain teams have huge sources of revenue to draw from (huge local fan bases, corporate sponsors/side deals, tv deals, wealthy free-spending owners, etc.) that drive up the player salaries. Pittsburgh is not a large enough population base to sell tickets in peanut heaven for $200 a seat while markets like NY, Chicago, Boston, etc. are large enough to demand those kinds of prices and more (as the cost of living in general in those places are also considerably higher). Pittsburgh does have a decently large base of deep pocketed corporations and firms that are willing to shell out large amounts of money for luxury boxes. So 16,000 fans in an arena with 40 luxury boxes is going to bring in considerably less money than one with say 16,000 fans and 100 luxury boxes, or even one with 40 bigger (higher priced) luxury boxes. > > The igloo lacks space to put in the number/size of luxury boxes that corporations are willing to shell out the big bucks for (and thus help provide the revenue to keep a competitive team onthe ice), thus why a new arena needs to be built and why just doing some remodeling on the igloo is not really a plausible solution. DUDE I FUCKING GET IT!!! Doesn’t mean i have to agree with it. i know its about the money… what the average fan doesn’t get is they are the ones that are subsidising the rich even more by beggin for these places. ---
**Author:** ![Hycomp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Hycomp](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Hycomp)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928/80 "2006-12-20T14:50:36Z")
> [@240sx transformation](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/240sx-transformation/26384/39): > > DUDE I FUCKING GET IT!!! Doesn’t mean i have to agree with it. i know its about the money… what the average fan doesn’t get is they are the ones that are subsidising the rich even more by beggin for these places. Not much to agree or disagree with. If the igloo, remodeled or not, is not capable of bringing in the revenue that could be had by moving the team to damn near anywhere else, then staying in the igloo is not a realistic expectation, especially if you expect to put a competitive team on the ice. Sure in a perfect world athletes would not be rediculously overpaid and tickets could be priced at $10 a seat. Simple facts are the athletes can demand, and get huge pay checks, if not from team A, then from team B. Same goes for the franchises themselves. Like it or not, if there is not a means for the Pen’s to make more revenue in Pittsburgh (through a new arena), they’ll go somewhere else. Is there a plan that would renovate the civic arena enough to actually generate similar revenue to a new arena? (or even an equivalent existing one in the NHL) From what I had heard renovation to that extent was either not pausible or would cost essentially as much as a whole new arena. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/casino-decision-day/186928.md?page=5)