# Cool thing I found out about Sunoco and Shell Gas **URL:** \ **Category:** SON240sx Automotive\ **Created:** [August 13, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163 "2009-08-13T06:16:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hurricane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hurricane](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Hurricane)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/61 "2009-08-19T09:37:01Z")
Ummm your VTEC engaged earlier from different fuel… yea… okay… that post pretty much sums up the crack the people in this thread are on. ---
**Author:** ![87s15lt1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/87s15lt1/32/5706_2.png) [@87s15lt1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/87s15lt1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/62 "2009-08-19T09:37:41Z")
![http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_709-UY_kyd8/SZOj9yPkiPI/AAAAAAAAARk/jEvU4PiEuHc/s400/vtec-just-kicked-in-yo.jpg](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_709-UY_kyd8/SZOj9yPkiPI/AAAAAAAAARk/jEvU4PiEuHc/s400/vtec-just-kicked-in-yo.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![87s15lt1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/87s15lt1/32/5706_2.png) [@87s15lt1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/87s15lt1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 9:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/63 "2009-08-19T09:38:13Z")
> [@Honest exhaust shop?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honest-exhaust-shop/23598/11): > > Ummm your VTEC engaged earlier from different fuel… yea… okay… that post pretty much sums up the crack the people in this thread are on. You did not clue in to Mark fucking around…as usual. Who’s on crack?:420: ---
**Author:** ![Sizzlenut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Sizzlenut](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Sizzlenut)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/64 "2009-08-19T16:51:31Z")
Just use whatever you used when your car was tuned, it only makes sense. I’d only retune with different fuel when I see some unbiased dyno charts. ---
**Author:** ![NoSkillz](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/noskillz/32/5606_2.png) [@NoSkillz](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/NoSkillz)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/65 "2009-08-19T18:38:04Z")
wtf, did no one read the chart/link i posted on page one. Gas has more energy then a gas + ethanol mix. No experiments needed. The only thing to decide is if the price is worth the millage saved (for those that don’t need octane rating as a deciding factor) The octane rating is a measure of the resistance of gasoline and other fuels to detonation. If u need a higher octane to prevent detonation then this should be ur determining factor for a higher grade. “Octane rating does not relate to the energy content of the fuel. It is only a measure of the fuel’s tendency to burn in a controlled manner, rather than exploding in an uncontrolled manner.” ---
**Author:** ![87s15lt1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/87s15lt1/32/5706_2.png) [@87s15lt1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/87s15lt1)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/66 "2009-08-20T05:42:41Z")
> [@Fs: cheap crap and free stuff](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-cheap-crap-and-free-stuff/23615/5): > > wtf, did no one read the chart/link i posted on page one. > Gas has more energy then a gas + ethanol mix. No experiments needed. The only thing to decide is if the price is worth the millage saved (for those that don’t need octane rating as a deciding factor) > > The octane rating is a measure of the resistance of gasoline and other fuels to detonation. If u need a higher octane to prevent detonation then this should be ur determining factor for a higher grade. > > “Octane rating does not relate to the energy content of the fuel. It is only a measure of the fuel’s tendency to burn in a controlled manner, rather than exploding in an uncontrolled manner.” :biggthumpup: ---
**Author:** ![Fobwall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ea924/32.png) [@Fobwall](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fobwall)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/67 "2009-08-20T06:26:29Z")
> [@Fs: cheap crap and free stuff](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-cheap-crap-and-free-stuff/23615/5): > > wtf, did no one read the chart/link i posted on page one. > Gas has more energy then a gas + ethanol mix. No experiments needed. The only thing to decide is if the price is worth the millage saved (for those that don’t need octane rating as a deciding factor) > > The octane rating is a measure of the resistance of gasoline and other fuels to detonation. If u need a higher octane to prevent detonation then this should be ur determining factor for a higher grade. > > “Octane rating does not relate to the energy content of the fuel. It is only a measure of the fuel’s tendency to burn in a controlled manner, rather than exploding in an uncontrolled manner.” Hey, correct me if I’m wrong but I’m going to try and sum up what you said. It’s pretty much like getting brake fluid that’s good till 500 degrees. But if your brake fluid temps only get up to 190 degrees max, you won’t really see much benefit from running 500 degree fluid as 240 degrees should be good enough? But some people might think that 500 degree fluid might make them stop faster. ---
**Author:** ![ronnie416](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ronnie416/32/5480_2.png) [@ronnie416](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ronnie416)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/68 "2009-08-20T06:57:16Z")
Yeah, that’s basically it. If your car does not require higher octane for knock resistance, than you’re making your car slower and less inefficient. Higher octane equals higher energy needed to burn it. If your car is not getting any detonation with 87, than anything above 87 is a waste of money and slows you down. ---
**Author:** ![Fobwall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ea924/32.png) [@Fobwall](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fobwall)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 6:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/69 "2009-08-20T06:59:20Z")
> [@Performance Car Builder in Rochester](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/performance-car-builder-in-rochester/23624/4): > > Yeah, that’s basically it. > > If your car does not require higher octane for knock resistance, than you’re making your car slower and less inefficient. Higher octane equals higher energy needed to burn it. If your car is not getting any detonation with 87, than anything above 87 is a waste of money and slows you down. LOL Funny thing about all this is that I always hear a lot of ricers say that “Yeah I only fill up with 91/94 octane and all they have is a stock NA engine” ---
**Author:** ![ronnie416](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ronnie416/32/5480_2.png) [@ronnie416](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ronnie416)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/70 "2009-08-20T07:01:48Z")
Also, I use esso primarily. As mark pointed out, its a loyalty thing. They have Timmies and they have Aeroplan which I use to travel. That being said. Same car, same week, went for an etest on a full tank of Esso. Failed hard. Identical procedure. Big long hard boot right before test to heat up the cat. Later on that week, repaeated the conditions with Shell 91, I was a lot closer to passing. No shit. (Esso was also 91 btw) I didn’t notice any power difference between the two. Still failed with Shell. I went to a Sunoco 94 with some Methyl Hyrdate as additive, passed with flying colours later that week. I didn’t even run it as a hot rod. Ran a RB20 with a vented BOV, failing cat and a full exhaust and passed with 94 and methyl hydrate as a regular 240. I’m not making this up. ---
**Author:** ![ronnie416](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ronnie416/32/5480_2.png) [@ronnie416](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ronnie416)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:10am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/71 "2009-08-20T07:10:19Z")
> [@Tax Season 2007](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tax-season-2007/23600/31): > > LOL > > Funny thing about all this is that I always hear a lot of ricers say that “Yeah I only fill up with 91/94 octane and all they have is a stock NA engine” So true! I always laugh when I see FS ads, “Always filled up with 94 or 91 octane” First of all, they’re lying, second of all, what does it matter with a stock pos mid 90’s na grocery getter? Its literally throwing money away. Here’s a true story. Diagnosing hard start problems and overall shitty running condition of a ninja 250. (A very very basic pedestrian shit box motor that should be powering a lawn mower) changed plugs, filters, air, oil, blah blah, cleaned pick up, petcock, anything fuel related. Asked her what gas shed been running. She tells me 94. I dump the tank, fill up 87. Voila! Turned a shitty running shitty engine with hard start and hesitation to a shitty engine that ran great! ---
**Author:** ![duckJAI](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/duckjai/32/5553_2.png) [@duckJAI](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/duckJAI)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/72 "2009-08-20T07:13:17Z")
^I wonder what the results would be if you just ran regular 94 sunoco with no additives. Do some vehicles really require 94 gas for knock resistance? I thought the higher end cars and turbo vehicles just require premium gas (91). It wouldn’t make sense if it was required to fuel up on 94, or every fueling station here in Canada would have 94 no? ---
**Author:** ![87s15lt1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/87s15lt1/32/5706_2.png) [@87s15lt1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/87s15lt1)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:16am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/73 "2009-08-20T07:16:51Z")
Depends on the vehicle. S13’s call for “premium” fuel lol Then again, I believe premium is referring to 91 as per owners manual. Check it out. Corvettes require 91 minimum. Stealths, some mustangs etc etc ---
**Author:** ![ronnie416](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ronnie416/32/5480_2.png) [@ronnie416](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ronnie416)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/74 "2009-08-20T07:17:17Z")
> [@Performance Car Builder in Rochester](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/performance-car-builder-in-rochester/23624/9): > > ^I wonder what the results would be if you just ran regular 94 sunoco with no additives. > > Do some vehicles really require 94 gas for knock resistance? I thought the higher end cars and turbo vehicles just require premium gas (91). > > It wouldn’t make sense if it was required to fuel up on 94, or every fueling station here in Canada would have 94 no? I don’t know of any production cars that require it. It’s mainly a gimmick to have something else no one else has. There are cars that are tuned for it though and will detonate with anything lower. ---
**Author:** ![87s15lt1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/87s15lt1/32/5706_2.png) [@87s15lt1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/87s15lt1)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:20am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/75 "2009-08-20T07:20:04Z")
VERY quick search, very basic information. > **[Paying a Premium for High Octane Gasoline?](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0210-paying-premium-high-octane-gasoline)** > > Higher octane fuel is not necessarily better for your car. Still trying to find a link to proven evidence that a lot of O.E cars require premium fuel ---
**Author:** ![ronnie416](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ronnie416/32/5480_2.png) [@ronnie416](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ronnie416)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:20am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/76 "2009-08-20T07:20:37Z")
> [@Good Gas Price!](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/good-gas-price/23612/17): > > Depends on the vehicle. > > S13’s call for “premium” fuel lol > > Then again, I believe premium is referring to 91 as per owners manual. > > Check it out. > > Corvettes require 91 minimum. Stealths, some mustangs etc etc 91 RON equals 86 AKI AKI is what we go by. EG, a 1990 Acura Integra calls for a minimum 91 RON in teh owners manual. That fooled me into thinking it needed 91 on a stock car. I did some reading on it and found out, I only required the regular shitty old gas. Lots of people see 91 or higher RON and assume, and RIGHTLY so. > **[Octane rating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating)** > > An octane rating, or octane number, is a standard measure of a fuel's ability to withstand compression in an internal combustion engine without undergoing pre-ignition. The higher the octane number, the more compression the fuel can withstand before detonating. Octane rating does not relate directly to the power output or the energy content of the fuel per unit mass or volume, but simply indicates gasoline's resistance to detonating under pressure without a spark. > Whether or not a higher octane ... ---
**Author:** ![ronnie416](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ronnie416/32/5480_2.png) [@ronnie416](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ronnie416)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:21am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/77 "2009-08-20T07:21:24Z")
AKI is also known as PON!!! ---
**Author:** ![duckJAI](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/duckjai/32/5553_2.png) [@duckJAI](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/duckJAI)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:21am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/78 "2009-08-20T07:21:31Z")
> [@Performance Car Builder in Rochester](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/performance-car-builder-in-rochester/23624/10): > > I don’t know of any production cars that require it. It’s mainly a gimmick to have something else no one else has. > > There are cars that are tuned for it though and will detonate with anything lower. So how about turbo vehicles than that come from the factory? I’m sure you can’t use 85 gas in it? Also, why do all tuners tune cars for either 91 or 94? There must be a logical reason. ---
**Author:** ![87s15lt1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/87s15lt1/32/5706_2.png) [@87s15lt1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/87s15lt1)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/79 "2009-08-20T07:23:06Z")
> [@Going to VA...anybody need anything picked up/delivered?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/going-to-va-anybody-need-anything-picked-up-delivered/23605/20): > > 91 RON equals 86 AKI > > AKI is what we go by. > > EG, a 1990 Acura Integra calls for a minimum 91 RON in teh owners manual. That fooled me into thinking it needed 91 on a stock car. I did some reading on it and found out, I only required the regular shitty old gas. > > Lots of people see 91 or higher RON and assume, and RIGHTLY so. > > [Octane rating - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating) I was gonna type in AKI…but I was not sure. My memory is fucked. Glad you cleared that up for me! Explains a lot! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ronnie416](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ronnie416/32/5480_2.png) [@ronnie416](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ronnie416)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163/80 "2009-08-20T07:23:14Z")
> [@Performance Car Builder in Rochester](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/performance-car-builder-in-rochester/23624/11): > > So how about turbo vehicles than that come from the factory? I’m sure you can use 85 gas in it? > > Also, why do all tuners tune cars for either 91 or 94? > > Must be a logical reason. Lots of turbo factory vehicles require 91…thats a 95 RON or higher. Pretty much any turbo car calls for a 90 minimum for optimal runing condition, anything lower and the the knock senor pulls timing. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/cool-thing-i-found-out-about-sunoco-and-shell-gas/127163.md?page=5)