# Crazy Bob throws out a 4 door challenge **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [October 14, 2009, 6:41am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820 "2009-10-14T06:41:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 6:41am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/1 "2009-10-14T06:41:52Z")
[http://www.ctsvchallenge.com/](http://www.ctsvchallenge.com/) > May the best car win. So says General Motors’ Bob Lutz, and he’s willing to put his Pilotis where his mouth is… so to speak. On a conference call last month, Maximum Bob challenged any journalist to a duel with the Cadillac CTS-V, and, not surprisingly, the mantle was picked up right quick by the boys at Jalopnik. > > Rules? Sorta. Any stock production four-door sedan is reportedly eligible to go up against the Big V, and the drivers will be lining up against the clock on October 29 at the Monticello Motor Club in Monticello, N.Y. While Jalop’s Wes Siler was originally slated to go up against Lutz in a Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG, that car has since been switched out in favor of the Jaguar XFR (earning the ire of TTAC in the process). > > Here’s the best part: Anyone who happens to own a new comparable sport sedan, such as a BMW M3 or M5, perhaps a Mercedes-Benz AMG sedan or the Audi S4 (not to mention the Mitsubishi Evolution), is welcome to submit themselves for consideration to take part in the festivities in New York. We’re not sure how the participants will be selected or exactly what the racing will entail, but if you’re interested in throwing your hat into the ring, Hopefully they do this in a year when BMW’s new V8TT is ready. If I am not mistaken they already raced the M5 and CTS-V around this track. ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/2 "2009-10-14T06:46:57Z")
I found the article > Heinricy is confident his 6-speed manual V can run with the ultra-racy paddle-shifted M5. Looking at the stats, the V has a big advantage with 56 more horsepower, 168 lb.-ft. more torque and only a 150-lb. weight penalty. He puts the power to good use and stretches the legs of his V to 149.18 mph and runs a 2:45.55. Our Vbox GPS data shows that both drivers and cars are performing nearly identical laps. With the water patch drying and the sun warming the track surface, both drivers start running cool-down laps between fast laps. It’s the last session and it’s too close to call yet. Auberlen runs two hard laps and comes in first with a smile. His timing beacon says he did a 2:44.70 and the GPS data agrees. Heinricy is still out and Kevin Smith of Cadillac’s communications is perspiring. The V is flagged in, Smith’s stopwatch says it’s close. The V ran three fast laps, each one faster than the previous by a tenth of a second. The final one is a 2:44.23, just under a half-second faster than the BMW. Could the M5 go quicker? Maybe. But for now we’ll have to let the track get back to its construction. > > Cadillac won by the skin of its teeth and all the participants walked away happy. Cadillac has made a CTS-V that can best the BMW M5 for likely the cost difference of a Chevy Malibu, while BMW knows its 3-year-old M5 is still close competition for the newest CTS-V. I’m sure BMW will be glad to raise the bar again with the next M5, but for now the V is king. [http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section\_id=31&article\_id=6963](http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6963) ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/3 "2009-10-15T06:05:51Z")
I guess Motor Trend Magazine “Best drivers cars” already tested Jag XF-R against CTS-V around Laguna Seca Raceway. Lap times: CTS-V 103.90 XF-R 105.40. Obiviously different track and different drivers but decent comparison. ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/4 "2009-10-23T13:40:13Z")
Preliminary list of drivers: [http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/2009/10/23/meet-the-v-series-challengers-–-preliminary-list/](http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/2009/10/23/meet-the-v-series-challengers-%E2%80%93-preliminary-list/) ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/5 "2009-10-23T13:43:08Z")
Bob Lutz seems like he’d be a really sweet guy to have beers and talk shop with. ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/6 "2009-10-23T13:55:29Z")
The man flies fighter jets at 77 for fun ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/7 "2009-10-28T11:34:12Z")
Jag backs out > **[Jaguar Pusses Out Of Jalopnik Vs. GM Race](https://jalopnik.com/5391222/jaguar-pusses-out-of-jalopnik-vs-gm-race)** > > Jaguar PR just called saying they've withdrawn their pledge to let Wes race the XFR Thursday against GM's Bob Lutz in a Cadillac CTS-V. Apparently, not because they're afraid to lose, they're afraid the XFR just can't take it.... Instead, they’re afraid the XFR can’t handle the strain. Specifically, the brakes. Without better brake cooling, Schorr tells us his folks are concerned the XFR just can’t put the necessary laps in without endangering the driver. They built a performance car that can’t do 5 laps? ---
**Author:** ![66impalass](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/66impalass/32/7429_2.png) [@66impalass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/66impalass)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/8 "2009-10-28T12:35:38Z")
Why do they only talk about Mercedes and Jag, what about Audi, BMW, etc… ---
**Author:** ![theblue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/theblue/32/5074_2.png) [@theblue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/theblue)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/9 "2009-10-28T12:41:44Z")
I hope a turbo panamera shows up. ---
**Author:** ![MPD47](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mpd47/32/7383_2.png) [@MPD47](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MPD47)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/10 "2009-10-28T12:46:16Z")
> [@BigRon](#): > > They built a performance car that can’t do 5 laps? On stock pads? I’m not surprised. ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/11 "2009-10-28T12:50:42Z")
> [@66impalass](#): > > Why do they only talk about Mercedes and Jag, what about Audi, BMW, etc… RS4, M5, M3 are all going to be included. ---
**Author:** ![MPD47](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mpd47/32/7383_2.png) [@MPD47](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MPD47)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/12 "2009-10-28T12:57:00Z")
RS4 is going to get walked, HARD. ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/13 "2009-10-28T13:10:25Z")
> [@MPD47](#): > > On stock pads? I’m not surprised. Bob’s response to Jag pulling out > I think it means that the European high-performance sedans are excellent, even superb cars, but quite possibly not ready for racing laps right out of the show-room. The CTS-V is not only quicker, but will, in totally untweaked, stock form, run hot laps at any race track until it runs out of fuel. Transmission oil and diff oil temps are stable, engine oil temp doesn’t go up, brakes get a bit more pedal travel, but don’t fade. The street tires get a tad greasy, but handling and control remain excellent. “May the best car win”! (It wins automatically if the competitors won’t show up!) > **[GM's Lutz Responds To "Not Ready For Racing" Jaguar](https://jalopnik.com/gms-lutz-responds-to-not-ready-for-racing-jaguar-5391350)** > > GM's "Maximum" Bob Lutz opened up his maximum mouth this evening to tweak the rest of the luxury performance sedan universe in response to Jaguar dropping out of the Jalopnik Vs. GM "CTS-V Challenge" race set for Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![MPD47](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mpd47/32/7383_2.png) [@MPD47](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MPD47)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/14 "2009-10-28T13:15:13Z")
Props to Bob and GM if that’s accurate, very difficult to get a brake setup from the factory that can perform on the street (without noise) and on the track (without death). ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/15 "2009-10-28T13:50:21Z")
Yeah I find it hard to beleive that running a tank of gas on the track wouldn’t fry the brakes. ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/16 "2009-10-28T13:50:54Z")
Here is an article from Brembo > 2009 Cadillac CTS-V will employ a unique Brembo brake system for the first time in > North America, with six-piston, aluminum, monobloc calipers and 14.6-in. (370mm) dual-cast > rotors in front and 4-piston, aluminum calipers and 14.4-in. (365mm) one-piece rotors in the > rear. Unlike traditional cast iron discs, dual-cast discs are made of two materials – cast iron > and aluminum – and offer many advantages, including a 15-20 per cent reduction in weight, > greater driving comfort, less corrosion, wear and resistance to fade, and better braking > performance. [http://www.brembo.com/NR/rdonlyres/2332BF18-0A61-49F2-B678-A0596AABC547/8993/CadillacFINAL.pdf](http://www.brembo.com/NR/rdonlyres/2332BF18-0A61-49F2-B678-A0596AABC547/8993/CadillacFINAL.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![66impalass](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/66impalass/32/7429_2.png) [@66impalass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/66impalass)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/17 "2009-10-28T15:22:59Z")
> [@theblue](#): > > I hope a turbo panamera shows up. this > [@BigRon](#): > > RS4, M5, M3 are all going to be included. > [@MPD47](#): > > RS4 is going to get walked, HARD. This… I was think the RS6 could show up if Audi wanted to be a dick > [@BigRon](#): > > Here is an article from Brembo > > [http://www.brembo.com/NR/rdonlyres/2332BF18-0A61-49F2-B678-A0596AABC547/8993/CadillacFINAL.pdf](http://www.brembo.com/NR/rdonlyres/2332BF18-0A61-49F2-B678-A0596AABC547/8993/CadillacFINAL.pdf) A lot of cars use a similar setup, M5, M3 ZCP, etc… Just not with brembo calipers, but that doesn’t address the stock pad issue that will probably arise on all cars ---
**Author:** ![Hass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/51bf81/32.png) [@Hass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Hass)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/18 "2009-10-28T15:27:40Z")
lol so what… 20 pistons total on the brakes? Mine only has 4… =[ ---
**Author:** ![TrueBlue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/trueblue/32/7245_2.png) [@TrueBlue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TrueBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/19 "2009-10-29T12:03:38Z")
Following this via Jalopnik’s FB updates right now :tup: ---
**Author:** ![theblue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/theblue/32/5074_2.png) [@theblue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/theblue)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820/20 "2009-10-29T12:11:00Z")
from autoblog right now: CTS-V (John Heinricy): 2:46:560 CTS-V (Brian Redman): 2:49:183 CTS-V (Aaron Link): 2:48:902 CTS-V (Lawrence Ulrich): 2:53:026 BMW M3 (Michael Cooper): 2.50:424 CTS-V (Jack Baruth): 2:51:153 CTS-V (Bob Lutz): 2:56:321 Evo (Wes Siler): 3:08.126 BMW M5 (Michael Mainwald): 3:08:989 CTS-V (Chris Fairman.): 3:14:292 Audi RS4 (Tom Loder): 3:15:702 Jaguar XF (Archan Basu): 3:16.670 [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crazy-bob-throws-out-a-4-door-challenge/74820.md?page=2)