# DSM differences? **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [March 25, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653 "2008-03-25T21:50:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![skylinez07](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/skylinez07/32/4993_2.png) [@skylinez07](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/skylinez07)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/61 "2008-03-30T14:56:00Z")
^^^ **now** thats what i call indepth **edited** ---
**Author:** ![RuBiCaNT](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rubicant/32/7622_2.png) [@RuBiCaNT](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RuBiCaNT)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/62 "2008-03-30T15:47:20Z")
> [@skylinez07](#): > > ^^^ not thats what i call indepth One of the smartest guys on DSM’s in this area by far. ---
**Author:** ![RFL\_DSM\_S](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rfl_dsm_s/32/5048_2.png) [@RFL\_DSM\_S](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RFL_DSM_S)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/63 "2008-03-30T18:24:01Z")
very nice:tup: love DSMs ---
**Author:** ![Carnut](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/carnut/32/7590_2.png) [@Carnut](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carnut)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/64 "2008-03-30T23:39:01Z")
> [@Tevenor](#): > > Summary: > > Evo’s arent’ DSM’s as DSM’s were manufactured by a joint venture between Chrysler and Mitsubishi. The only cars that can claim to be DSM’s are anything built with any motor configuration in the Normal IL plant under the DSM brand. from 89 to 95. Other cars were built out of that same plant but not marketed under the DSM banner and were to be resold under both Chrysler proper and Mitsubishi proper branding and therefore are not "DSM"s. Galants and the cloud cars are examples. The 2G Talons and Eclipses (96+), are still considered DSM’s even though by 96 the joint venture was dissolved as they are a product of the engineering and plant build of the original joint venture. > > The only exception are the 3000GT/Stealth lines. The 3000GT’s and Stealths are badged as “DSM” not because they were built in the Normal IL plant but because they were a product of the joint Mitsubishi Chrysler venture for the design and build but it was built in a Mitsubishi plant in Nagoya Japan. > > The Galant VR4’s are often considered to be “DSM” just because of the fact that the drivetrains are historically identical as US build DSM models ( 4G63 AWD setups ) but were in fact were all built in Japan and imported and built solely by Mitsubishi with no influence from Chrysler. By further extension, other model lines can be considered DSM’s, such as in the case of the Evo platforms, but this is an even more tortured interpretation as again the Evo’s were imported from Japan and have a counter rotating assembly and different drivetrain setup so the combined banner of “Diamond Star Motors” never had anything to do with Evos. > > Side summarizations: > > - You can swap any 4G63 with any other 4G63 as long as you ahve the right wiring harness and engine mount points. This includes swapping a 4G63NA in a GGSX with a 4G63T or a 4G63NA with a 4G63T in a NA 1G DSM, etc. or 6-bolt 1G blocks in 2G non-420A cars. Swapping a 4G63T into a 420A generally tends to be more of a waste of time and money than a way of getting any real gains. > - DSM’s have been around so long that everyone seems to think they know all about them. In reality, most people know annectodal evidence with little to no practical experience. It’s all " I heard this" or “my friend had that”. > - Arguing about shit like this over the internet just makes you all look fuckin stupid. I \<3 Sean. ---
**Author:** ![dcrdev](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@dcrdev](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/dcrdev)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/65 "2008-03-31T00:10:15Z")
These threads must start up at least once a week… What’s up with all the rudness in here? Ill jump in with - Cavi Mike seems pretty pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![cky89](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cky89/32/4945_2.png) [@cky89](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cky89)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/66 "2008-03-31T00:31:44Z")
> [@Cavi Mike](#): > > eclipsed, care to awe us with your supreme knowledge? He’s the admin of wnydsm, I’m fairly sure he knows exactly what he’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![skylinez07](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/skylinez07/32/4993_2.png) [@skylinez07](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/skylinez07)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/67 "2008-03-31T05:58:56Z")
> [@Carnut](#): > > I \<3 Sean. I have to agree with you, and i dont even know him. ---
**Author:** ![Cavi\_Mike](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cavi_mike/32/5217_2.png) [@Cavi\_Mike](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Cavi_Mike)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 6:05am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/68 "2008-03-31T06:05:15Z")
> [@xcapandinkx](#): > > These threads must start up at least once a week… What’s up with all the rudness in here? Ill jump in with - Cavi Mike seems pretty pathetic. Aww, you care about me! You really really do! ---
**Author:** ![eclipsed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@eclipsed](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/eclipsed)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 6:42am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/69 "2008-03-31T06:42:15Z")
> [@Tevenor](#): > > Summary: > > Evo’s arent’ DSM’s as DSM’s were manufactured by a joint venture between Chrysler and Mitsubishi. The only cars that can claim to be DSM’s are anything built with any motor configuration in the Normal IL plant under the DSM brand. from 89 to 95. Other cars were built out of that same plant but not marketed under the DSM banner and were to be resold under both Chrysler proper and Mitsubishi proper branding and therefore are not "DSM"s. Galants and the cloud cars are examples. The 2G Talons and Eclipses (96+), are still considered DSM’s even though by 96 the joint venture was dissolved as they are a product of the engineering and plant build of the original joint venture. > > The only exception are the 3000GT/Stealth lines. The 3000GT’s and Stealths are badged as “DSM” not because they were built in the Normal IL plant but because they were a product of the joint Mitsubishi Chrysler venture for the design and build but it was built in a Mitsubishi plant in Nagoya Japan. > > The Galant VR4’s are often considered to be “DSM” just because of the fact that the drivetrains are historically identical as US build DSM models ( 4G63 AWD setups ) but were in fact were all built in Japan and imported and built solely by Mitsubishi with no influence from Chrysler. By further extension, other model lines can be considered DSM’s, such as in the case of the Evo platforms, but this is an even more tortured interpretation as again the Evo’s were imported from Japan and have a counter rotating assembly and different drivetrain setup so the combined banner of “Diamond Star Motors” never had anything to do with Evos. > > Side summarizations: > > - You can swap any 4G63 with any other 4G63 as long as you ahve the right wiring harness and engine mount points. This includes swapping a 4G63NA in a GGSX with a 4G63T or a 4G63NA with a 4G63T in a NA 1G DSM, etc. or 6-bolt 1G blocks in 2G non-420A cars. Swapping a 4G63T into a 420A generally tends to be more of a waste of time and money than a way of getting any real gains. > - DSM’s have been around so long that everyone seems to think they know all about them. In reality, most people know annectodal evidence with little to no practical experience. It’s all " I heard this" or “my friend had that”. > - Arguing about shit like this over the internet just makes you all look fuckin stupid. thank you sean. > [@RuBiCaNT](#): > > One of the smartest guys on DSM’s in this area by far. :word: > [@cky89](#): > > He’s the admin of wnydsm, I’m fairly sure he knows exactly what he’s talking about. i tend to think i have a clue - i dont claim to have the level of technical proficiency of sean or don, but still, i know what im talking about. > [@skylinez07](#): > > so ok what is true in here? > > Delete anything that is off this topic in here. basically, i am sick of reading people posting about the following stuff: 1. a 420a to 4g63 swap. if you are asking questions about this swap, you DEFINITELY don’t have the time, money, or skill to complete it. there is only one successful swap that i have heard of in the area, and it was completed by a guy with expert welding and fabrication skills, and the mechnical intuition to complete the project on his own without asking basic “should i or shouldn’t i” questions. 2. what is a dsm and what isn’t. i would venture to guess that 2/3 of the people that posted like they knew the correct answer to this question have no clue. tevenor cleared this up, but i am sick of reading people arguing about stuff they don’t know about. 3. hearing how turboing a 420a is going to make siqqqq power. i cant tell you how much you would need to dump into a 2gnt dsm before seeing any type of _ **RELIABLE** _ boosted power. realistically, if you plan on running a streetable 250whp+, you should plan on a FULLY built motor, and fully re-engineered and rebuild fuel system, complete with new injectors, new fuel pump, new lines, fpr, and some kind of fuel management system. so many people have tried this before, and so many people have failed. only the most stubborn folks, with deeper pocket books, the inner desire to be “different”, and some solid mechanical experience have been able to extract solid power, and even still it has come at quite steep costs. cavi mike, you can think what you want about myself, my mechanical knowledge, etc. all i did was point out that there is a plethora of misinformation in this thread. bottom line? there is. ---
**Author:** ![skylinez07](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/skylinez07/32/4993_2.png) [@skylinez07](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/skylinez07)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/70 "2008-03-31T06:47:18Z")
well thats what im trying to be informed on and my knowledge is growing slightly everyday from things like this. ---
**Author:** ![eclipsed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@eclipsed](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/eclipsed)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 6:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/71 "2008-03-31T06:57:20Z")
> [@skylinez07](#): > > well thats what im trying to be informed on and my knowledge is growing slightly everyday from things like this. there are a lot of places you can go to read up on DSMs. you can check: [www.vfaq.com](http://www.vfaq.com) [www.dsmtuners.com](http://www.dsmtuners.com) [www.dsmtalk.com](http://www.dsmtalk.com) don’t always believe everything you see posted on internet forums. but, you should be able to decipher who has 1st hand experience and who doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Cavi\_Mike](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cavi_mike/32/5217_2.png) [@Cavi\_Mike](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Cavi_Mike)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 7:10am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/72 "2008-03-31T07:10:22Z")
The point I’m trying to across to him is that you don’t have to own a 1st gen to be a DSMer. I haven’t seen the name Tevenor in a long time and it reminded me of a DSM meet we went to in East Rochester that consisted of mine and one kids 2nd gen and Seans VR4. How could it be a DSM meet if there wasn’t one DSM there? Because there are exceptions, just like the Evo. We’re still DSMers. Shit, even Jim Millelas Jeep was considered a DSM hahaha ---
**Author:** ![Carbonfiberhooded](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/carbonfiberhooded/32/7608_2.png) [@Carbonfiberhooded](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carbonfiberhooded)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2008, 7:16am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653/73 "2008-03-31T07:16:21Z")
If you have a specific DSM related question, the DSM experts around these parts are DeviousTSi, Carnut, Tevenor, Emery, and personally I have never been given inaccurate info from Shott17 either. Seems to know his stuff. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/dsm-differences/45653.md?page=3)