# End of an eara... **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [December 30, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736 "2009-12-30T23:02:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![khoveraki](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/khoveraki/32/5131_2.png) [@khoveraki](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/khoveraki)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/21 "2010-01-02T13:49:10Z")
> I’ll keep my 10yo Z28 and all its flaws. Its not the prettiest. Far from the nicest interior and that live axle rides like shit. But on a crisp spring night, it sure is fun to drive. And damn it!.. its me. lol guy. ---
**Author:** ![blk99z28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@blk99z28](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/blk99z28)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/22 "2010-01-02T14:53:20Z")
I was simply attempting to point out how the driver is being increasingly removed from the driving experience. Car companies are attempting to cover up the incompetents of many drivers with more electronic nannies that limit what you can do as the operator of the vehicle. There’s more and more, traction control and stability control and shitty throttle response due to drive-by-wire TBs and such, that i miss the purity of the mechanical connection that a driver used to have with older cars that seems is being phased out in a lot of newer vehicles. Top Gear did a test of the F40 touching on this point. I tend to agree with Clarkson on this one. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/2X/b/b7170c8eddc0b95ece6b88172b2f416a08489a45.png) [@system](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/23 "2010-01-02T22:33:23Z")
Apparently spell check is your traction control. Don’t complain about other people’s incompetence, not if you can’t spell the word. No offense man, but come on. We have plenty of luxuries that have turned skill over to electronics. Butchering is almost entirely automated now but there are still some butchers who do everything by hand, chainsaws have replaced the axe for efficiency reasons yet some people who enjoyed using them still cut down trees using nothing but an axe, fish finders make finding the good spots easy for people who have never fished at the lake/river they happen to be in, GPS systems, digitally tuning radios that eliminate the knobs used to find the right frequency… Like I said man. Cars are getting dumber, for dumber people. They aren’t the only thing though. This thread needs to be far broader than it is, if its going to mean anything. Even so, you can still buy an axe, a radio with knobs, a map book, and a boat without a fish finder. In other words… what are you ranting about if you say you’re sticking with your z28, and you’re doing just that.? Old cars with throttle linkages and live axles aren’t going anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Storamin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Storamin](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Storamin)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/24 "2010-01-03T07:44:16Z")
u can keep ur 10 year old z28 all you want just dont keep the mullet ---
**Author:** ![Fry](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fry/32/7284_2.png) [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/25 "2010-01-03T10:21:05Z")
Yeah I also hate it when technology keeps me safe from all the incompetent assholes on the road. :tdown: ---
**Author:** ![BigEd88](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/biged88/32/5064_2.png) [@BigEd88](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigEd88)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/26 "2010-01-03T12:20:06Z")
Stability control is awesome for winter weather. To pretend you could do a better job than a system that can control individual brakes, and in some cases power distribution to individual wheels, is silly. Its doing a good job on cutting down single vehicle crash rates too. Traction control is a bit of a waste though on the average car, almost got me stuck going up a hill and wheel spin that causes a car to start kicking out is solved by Stability control for those that can’t control the right foot. Drive a vette, you can kill all the goodies but for other than burnouts and drifting, no real reason I think we all agree however that we want our daily drivers to have amenities, and our go fast toys…need only go fast. ---
**Author:** ![burnt\_toast](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/burnt_toast/32/7518_2.png) [@burnt\_toast](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/burnt_toast)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/27 "2010-01-03T12:49:16Z")
i think the biggest problem here, OP, is that you’ve simply never driven a new car. I’m certain that if you plopped your ass in a brand new sti or evo (for example, many other cars could be used) you’d be making a thread about how much more awesome they are than your mullet-mobile. ---
**Author:** ![deebo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/deebo/32/5218_2.png) [@deebo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/deebo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/28 "2010-01-03T13:01:45Z")
can someone atleast change the thread title to ERA ---
**Author:** ![blk99z28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@blk99z28](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/blk99z28)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/29 "2010-01-03T19:11:25Z")
> [@burnt\_toast](#): > > i think the biggest problem here, OP, is that you’ve simply never driven a new car. I’m certain that if you plopped your ass in a brand new sti or evo (for example, many other cars could be used) you’d be making a thread about how much more awesome they are than your mullet-mobile. Please do tell me what my DD is since you are so omniscient ---
**Author:** ![burnt\_toast](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/burnt_toast/32/7518_2.png) [@burnt\_toast](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/burnt_toast)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/30 "2010-01-03T19:13:28Z")
I’ll just take a stab at “10yo Z28”, since that’s what you referenced in your post as what you’d like to keep. ---
**Author:** ![blk99z28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@blk99z28](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/blk99z28)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/31 "2010-01-03T19:23:45Z")
ugghhh… :picard: Try to moved past the fact that I spelled a word incorrectly and actually read the post. I’m not saying that old cars are better than new cars. The technological advances in the automotive over the last 10-15 years have certainly made cars better. Let me try to clarify for you folks. The point of the post was to argue whether or not, FOR PERFORMANCE DRIVING, that electronics and computers have removed some of the driving experience from the driver and replaced it with algorithms. The fact that less driver skill is involved and electronic trickery has replaced it. The GTR being a perfect example. I’m not talking for the stoopid soccer MILF driving while texting and fixing her eyeliner on a snow covered road. Obviously the more electronic fail-safes involved in her “driving experience” the better off we all are. …and BTW, the Z28 has been in storage for several months now. ---
**Author:** ![klug](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/klug/32/5222_2.png) [@klug](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/klug)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/32 "2010-01-03T19:24:59Z")
> [@blk99z28](#): > > ugghhh… :picard: > > Try to moved past the fact that I spelled a word incorrectly and actually read the post. I’m not saying that old cars are better than new cars. The technological advances in the automotive over the last 10-15 years have certainly made cars better. Let me try to clarify for you folks. > > The point of the post was to argue whether or not, FOR PERFORMANCE DRIVING, that electronics and computers have removed some of the driving experience from the driver and replaced it with algorithms. The fact that less driver skill is involved and electronic trickery has replaced it. The GTR being a perfect example. > > I’m not talking for the stoopid soccer MILF driving while texting and fixing her eyeliner on a snow covered road. Obviously the more electronic fail-safes involved in her “driving experience” the better off we all are. This would be why most PERFORMANCE cars have an on/off switch 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Willybeen](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/willybeen/32/7351_2.png) [@Willybeen](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Willybeen)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/33 "2010-01-03T20:01:24Z")
lol.fry. ! ---
**Author:** ![burnt\_toast](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/burnt_toast/32/7518_2.png) [@burnt\_toast](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/burnt_toast)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/34 "2010-01-03T21:32:31Z")
> [@blk99z28"](#): > > I really feel that’s where we are in the automotive industry. The days of simplicity, and having 100% control over the vehicle you drive is gone. > > I was recently with out cable for several days and was going through all my old Motor Trends ( there was nothing else to do) from the early 90. After looking trough several and i couldn’t help but realize, I long for the days of simpler cars. There were some pretty bad-ass rides in those days. > > Sure, the interiors sucked, the creature comforts were at a minimum and the driving experience was far from maximized. But those cars had personality, good or bad, they had it. They didn’t all look like melted jelly beans and come equipped exactly the same. You were in control of the cars. If you fucked up, you shit yourself trying to drift it across 3 lanes of traffic on the 290 because you lifted on the on ramp. But you could have fun in them. Oh yeah and every car didn’t weigh 6348750394785 lbs > > After reading Mike’s (and others; see dod) post in the review thread about the Exploder, I couldnt help but recall the last time i forgot to turn off the TC in the Z28 only to get pissed off. Cars pretty much drive themselves these days. Good luck trying to tune one yourself. Cars’ shapes are no longer art, designed to please the eye. They are 100% functionally dependent on aerodynamic behavior. > > It seem (to me anyway) that with the increasing complexity of the electronic control of today’s vehicles that they are losing their soles. A car is no longer something to Lust over and find its individuality that matches your desires. They are all becoming so cookie-cutter and dull, nothing more than transportation to coddle us while we drive to work. > > I’ll keep my 10yo Z28 and all its flaws. Its not the prettiest. Far from the nicest interior and that live axle rides like shit. But on a crisp spring night, it sure is fun to drive. And damn it!.. its me. 😃 > [@blk99z28](#): > > ugghhh… :picard: > > Try to moved past the fact that I spelled a word incorrectly and actually read the post. I’m not saying that old cars are better than new cars. The technological advances in the automotive over the last 10-15 years have certainly made cars better. Let me try to clarify for you folks. > > The point of the post was to argue whether or not, FOR PERFORMANCE DRIVING, that electronics and computers have removed some of the driving experience from the driver and replaced it with algorithms. The fact that less driver skill is involved and electronic trickery has replaced it. The GTR being a perfect example. > > I’m not talking for the stoopid soccer MILF driving while texting and fixing her eyeliner on a snow covered road. Obviously the more electronic fail-safes involved in her “driving experience” the better off we all are. > > …and BTW, the Z28 has been in storage for several months now. just quoted both for reference… But i’m going to go ahead and say that even the vehicles with all the “electronic trickery” have their limits, you’re just able to go faster and push harder to reach them as opposed to the cars that aren’t equipped. So, really, i’d say the driving experience has been expanded. Don’t forget that these cars come equipped with a lot of those options of “on/off” performance because full time performance with modern technology simply isn’t practical to be driving around town with. And come on now, unless you’re talking about exotic made-to-order cars, every vehicle since the Model T has been cookie cutter mass produced with standard options. The 1980s were definitely no different. ---
**Author:** ![blk99z28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@blk99z28](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/blk99z28)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/35 "2010-01-31T12:30:36Z")
> [@Fry](#): > > Yeah I also hate it when technology keeps me safe from all the incompetent assholes on the road. :tdown: Kinda like Toyota’s Drive-by-wire throttle’s. Those are way safer than a typical throttle cable. :tup: How’s that working for ya? ---
**Author:** ![deebo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/deebo/32/5218_2.png) [@deebo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/deebo)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/36 "2010-01-31T12:39:53Z")
You really bumped this thread? Can you please fix ERA ---
**Author:** ![Xander](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/xander/32/7597_2.png) [@Xander](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Xander)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/37 "2010-01-31T15:45:27Z")
Say what you want, hooking a scanner to your car and knowing what’s wrong as opposed to guessing certainly has value. X… ---
**Author:** ![challengermike](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/challengermike/32/5106_2.png) [@challengermike](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/challengermike)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/38 "2010-01-31T19:34:22Z")
> [@Fry](#): > > LOLJUAT? > > [/SIZE][/FONT] These lists are good but to compare the fastest mustangs the older cars are missing the top dogs,wheres the 428,429 and the shelbys,listed are the small block cars.The vettes i agree are alot faster now.My point was that a few cars are alot faster now but most have about the same performance as the past but having fuel injection and overdrives makes them so much better to drive and still be able to put good #s down at the track.Lets face it a new roller cam or 2 in a newer car cost some coin.The parts to mod it are alot of money compard to buying parts for an older car.For the dragstrip i would think you could build a old car alot cheaper than a new one and run the same times.I know that when i built my turbo buick it cost alot more than my 440 mopar stroked to 499.Both cars run about the same times but the buick is alot nicer to drive.I dont think there is any right or wrong here with either new or old,just how much cash and how much you know about newer electronics. ---
**Author:** ![Fry](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fry/32/7284_2.png) [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 5:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/39 "2010-02-01T05:27:28Z")
> [@blk99z28](#): > > Kinda like Toyota’s Drive-by-wire throttle’s. Those are way safer than a typical throttle cable. :tup: How’s that working for ya? I would argue, but my wife’s 2010 Legacy is in the shop right now because the ebrake lever/cable system has been replaced by a button on the dash and a pair of solenoids and it won’t disengage. :roflpicard: :hang: ---
**Author:** ![Copper280z](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/copper280z/32/5464_2.png) [@Copper280z](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Copper280z)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736/40 "2010-02-03T12:31:42Z")
There’s a simple solution to this thread, don’t buy newer cars if you don’t like them. But I have to agree with you on a few things, some mechanical items should be left mechanical, like the throttle and the E-brake. > [@Xander](#): > > Say what you want, hooking a scanner to your car and knowing what’s wrong as opposed to guessing certainly has value. > > X… I wish it were that easy, I’ve been hunting the source of a random misfire code on my dad’s '02 2500HD for months. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/end-of-an-eara/77736.md?page=3)