# EPA to Automakers: Horsepower War is Over. **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [January 31, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753 "2008-01-31T20:40:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Violator](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/violator/32/7278_2.png) [@Violator](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Violator)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/41 "2008-01-31T23:07:06Z")
I for one was all for the EPA until I heard this bureaucratic bullshit. The performance segment holds a VERY small percentage of all vehicles sold. If the EPA had any fucking sense they would focus on all the pig trucks and 4000lb SUVs spewing shit into the air. They carry a significant percentage of cars sold and they get used a LOT MORE then any performance car. ---
**Author:** ![cky89](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cky89/32/4945_2.png) [@cky89](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cky89)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/42 "2008-01-31T23:07:08Z")
> [@ILCisDEAD](#): > > sadly this is really ironic. existence. Note the e not an a. Thats not the irony. You are bitching about the EPA wanting to increase efficiency of vehicles. You think it should be a choice what you drive. > > This is exactly the kind of thinking that causes problems for the world. My “interesting existence” will probably end at about the same time yours does, because of the problems brought out by humans. OMG. I don’t have a problem with you, but you’re making yourself look fucking retarded. It’s 6 BILLION to ONE. The rest of the ENTIRE WORLD isn’t going to change because you and a few thousand other people think it should. We’re all fucked. Why blame him because of the car he drives? He’s been on the planet for about .1 seconds in relation to the age of the earth. I’m pretty sure we were fucked way before any of us were born. ---
**Author:** ![cougarspeed](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cougarspeed/32/7468_2.png) [@cougarspeed](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cougarspeed)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/43 "2008-01-31T23:10:09Z")
> [@ILCisDEAD](#): > > I don’t have the time to explain, I have the work tomorrow morning. So your “best friend” can get his last word in while I sleep. > > Here’s to waking up at 6am ☹ to continue to do work. > > Thanks for the entertainment though. Yea i have to run too. Im just saying dont let what you think you know of him on the internet be your judgment. But whatever its not too important. Off to save the world ya know. ---
**Author:** ![ILCisDEAD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a87d85/32.png) [@ILCisDEAD](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ILCisDEAD)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/44 "2008-01-31T23:12:11Z")
> [@cky89](#): > > OMG. I don’t have a problem with you, but you’re making yourself look fucking retarded. It’s 6 BILLION to ONE. The rest of the ENTIRE WORLD isn’t going to change because you and a few thousand other people think it should. We’re all fucked. Why blame him because of the car he drives? He’s been on the planet for about .1 seconds in relation to the age of the earth. I’m pretty sure we were fucked way before any of us were born. God one more… Do you want humans to be living relatively comfortably for the next 200 years, or do you want humans to be suffering in 50 (I personally think its gonna be hell in 30). Violator I do understand that performance vehicles are a extremely small percentage, but reform has to start some place, before it can be spread beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![cky89](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cky89/32/4945_2.png) [@cky89](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cky89)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/45 "2008-01-31T23:14:20Z")
> [@ILCisDEAD](#): > > God one more… > > Do you want humans to be living relatively comfortably for the next 200 years, or do you want humans to be suffering in 50 (I personally think its gonna be hell in 30). > > Violator I do understand that performance vehicles are a extremely small percentage, but reform has to start some place, before it can be spread beyond that. I honestly don’t care. Because I know it’s too late for myself personally to do anything about it. I’d rather live the remainder of my life happy, over worrying about how I can help save people when I’m dead:bloated: I’m 1 person out of 6 billion, ain’t fucking shit I can do to make a difference in this world. ---
**Author:** ![Final\_GTS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/final_gts/32/7359_2.png) [@Final\_GTS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Final_GTS)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/46 "2008-01-31T23:15:33Z")
> [@ILCisDEAD](#): > > sadly this is really ironic. existence. Note the e not an a. Thats not the irony. lol, OK? So you are getting on my case about 1 letter in 1 word on an internet forum after the 10+ posts I just put up? Trust me, if you want to go head to head on the english language and its use, it might not turn out so well for you. Being articulate on an internet forum is not exactly my top priority, but I assure you, there was reason behind me being exempt from just about every upper level english and literature class i have ever needed to take. Focus on the subject and stop trying to derail this thread with your tangential jabs. ---
**Author:** ![ILCisDEAD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a87d85/32.png) [@ILCisDEAD](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ILCisDEAD)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/47 "2008-01-31T23:16:45Z")
> [@cky89](#): > > over worrying about how I can help save people when I’m dead:bloated: > > I’m 1 person out of 6 billion, ain’t fucking shit I can do to make a difference in this world. Just like so many people in this world. So greedy about making their own lives perfect. You are 1 person, and 1 voice but can influence others in what you believe in. ---
**Author:** ![cky89](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cky89/32/4945_2.png) [@cky89](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cky89)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/48 "2008-01-31T23:19:06Z")
> [@ILCisDEAD](#): > > Just like so many people in this world. So greedy about making their own lives perfect. > > You are 1 person, and 1 voice but can influence others in what you believe in. I’m 18 lol, I can’t influence anyone to do anything. I’m not greedy about myself. I just don’t want to devote my entire life to making sure farther in the future generations can suffer the same way you think we’re going to. Because it will eventually happen. It’s sad to think that way but you have to realize that. I just want to live the life I want to lead while I’m here. ---
**Author:** ![Final\_GTS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/final_gts/32/7359_2.png) [@Final\_GTS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Final_GTS)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/49 "2008-01-31T23:20:02Z")
> [@ILCisDEAD](#): > > Just like so many people in this world. So greedy about making their own lives perfect. > > You are 1 person, and 1 voice but can influence others in what you believe in. When I make my first million, I will buy you a couple of new trees to hug. Greedy & selfish? not me. Weren’t you supposed to leave? ---
**Author:** ![POOPRA](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/poopra/32/7188_2.png) [@POOPRA](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/POOPRA)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/50 "2008-02-01T04:34:51Z")
I dont know what all the uproar is about, Im pretty sure automakers will be able to engineer a car that gets 35 mpg that puts out 600+ HP. The technology is available, I dont think that consumers demanded it though. ---
**Author:** ![Bacon](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bacon/32/7230_2.png) [@Bacon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Bacon)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/51 "2008-02-01T05:17:48Z")
> [@Violator](#): > > I for one was all for the EPA until I heard this bureaucratic bullshit. > The performance segment holds a VERY small percentage of all vehicles sold. > > If the EPA had any fucking sense they would focus on all the pig trucks and 4000lb SUVs spewing shit into the air. They carry a significant percentage of cars sold and they get used a LOT MORE then any performance car. It’s easier to chase the niche, than it is to go after the masses. ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:26am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/52 "2008-02-01T05:26:40Z")
If we replaced all of our oldest fossil fuel power plants with the nuclear variety, they could make legislation maxing it at 10MPG and we’d still come out ahead. This is like the red cross telling hospitals to be prepared to end blood transfusions because of the threat of AIDS. Sure it’s a serious threat, but there are a LOT better ways of going about doing things. ---
**Author:** ![LAFENGAS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/lafengas/32/7573_2.png) [@LAFENGAS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LAFENGAS)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/53 "2008-02-01T05:28:07Z")
Dan Lesser = ![http://picturebook.chattablogs.com/archives/images/06_02_11.jpg](http://picturebook.chattablogs.com/archives/images/06_02_11.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![BrockwayMT](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/brockwaymt/32/5060_2.png) [@BrockwayMT](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BrockwayMT)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/54 "2008-02-01T05:31:39Z")
> [@Joe](#): > > If we replaced all of our oldest fossil fuel power plants with the nuclear variety, they could make legislation maxing it at 10MPG and we’d still come out ahead. This is like the red cross telling hospitals to be prepared to end blood transfusions because of the threat of AIDS. Sure it’s a serious threat, but there are a LOT better ways of going about doing things. Nuclear power is the answer. Nuclear power for electric heat in homes. Electric heat is easily programmable, zoneable, variable, etc. You can also use the nuclear power to charge your electric commuter car. Or what about high speed electric trains instead of planes? Or nuclear power for electrolysis of seawater to make the h2 for fuel cell vehicles? Makes too damn much sense. And the oil companies don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Violator](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/violator/32/7278_2.png) [@Violator](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Violator)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:43am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/55 "2008-02-01T05:43:41Z")
> [@BrockwayMT](#): > > Nuclear power is the answer. Nuclear power for electric heat in homes. Electric heat is easily programmable, zoneable, variable, etc. You can also use the nuclear power to charge your electric commuter car. Or what about high speed electric trains instead of planes? Or nuclear power for electrolysis of seawater to make the h2 for fuel cell vehicles? Makes too damn much sense. And the oil companies don’t like it. The oil companied are not fueling most of our power plants. Coal fueled power palnts supply almost HALF of all Electric Power in the US. Nuclear and Natural gas are both at 20%. Coal plants (in the US) have been regulated to the point where their emissions are lower but they still account for almost 30% of ALL the CO2 emissions in the world. Coal is here to stay because its cheap and plentiful. We just need cleaner technology to use it. This is where most of the “Green” efforts should go. ESPECIALLY since China and India are developing and they will be polluting magnitudes greater the the US in the future. That clean Coal technology could go to them as well. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 5:48am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/56 "2008-02-01T05:48:38Z")
> [@BrockwayMT](#): > > Nuclear power is the answer. Nuclear power for electric heat in homes. Electric heat is easily programmable, zoneable, variable, etc. You can also use the nuclear power to charge your electric commuter car. Or what about high speed electric trains instead of planes? Or nuclear power for electrolysis of seawater to make the h2 for fuel cell vehicles? Makes too damn much sense. And the oil companies don’t like it. You had me until the silly conspiracy theory, blame the oil company BS at the end. Nuclear went away and will have a very hard time coming back because of two events; Three Mile Island and Chernobyl. The American public are ready to jump off the oil buffet but because of serious mistakes with nuclear in the past they aren’t willing to jump to nuclear. You drive a big tanker into a shoal, some oil leaks out, some ducks and penguins die, and life goes on. The greenies cry for the penguins and the rest of us go, “what has a penguin really done for me lately?”. You screw up with a nuclear reactor and everything for 100’s of miles dies of cancer and the area stays radioactive for decades. No matter how safe you claim the new plant designs are the generation who grew up watching Three Mile Island and Chernobyl on the news is always going to rate the risk too high for the rewards. Maybe when gas hits $5 a gallon and people are honestly struggling to heat their homes, not just bitching about the price while buying flat screen TV’s at a cost that would heat their home all winter. > [@Violator](#): > > Coal is here to stay because its cheap and plentiful. We just need cleaner technology to use it. This is where most of the “Green” efforts should go. ESPECIALLY since China and India are developing and they will be polluting magnitudes greater the the US in the future. That clean Coal technology could go to them as well. It’s good to see you and Bush on the same page. 😉 (sorry, I had to) [http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/powersystems/cleancoal/](http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/powersystems/cleancoal/) And we’ll be seeing that investment right here locally with the Tonawanda Huntley plant: [http://www.erie.gov/legislature/district14/district14\_news122106.asp](http://www.erie.gov/legislature/district14/district14_news122106.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Violator](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/violator/32/7278_2.png) [@Violator](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Violator)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 6:15am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/57 "2008-02-01T06:15:45Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > It’s good to see you and Bush on the same page. 😉 (sorry, I had to) > [Office of Carbon Management | Department of Energy](http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/powersystems/cleancoal/) heh, I dont even know what to say to that one. Buy you know as well as I do that the dollar is king. Companies will pursue the least expensive alternative… not only because its financially wise but because ALL the people screaming murder will be screaming louder when their green fuel and electricity is 20% more expensive. Many seem to think everything is a conspiracy. Alternatives COST more, if they are not willing to pay up then they should keep quiet. Everything is a tradeoff. ---
**Author:** ![1BADGPGT](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/1badgpgt/32/5123_2.png) [@1BADGPGT](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/1BADGPGT)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/58 "2008-02-01T07:01:03Z")
I’ve heard older guys say (and I’ve believed it since), “The government can hinder us to 12V electric cars, and there will be the enthusiasts that will find ways to make them smoke the tires and run like stink.” ---
**Author:** ![Bacon](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bacon/32/7230_2.png) [@Bacon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Bacon)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 7:05am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/59 "2008-02-01T07:05:35Z")
> [@1BADGPGT](#): > > I’ve heard older guys say (and I’ve believed it since), “The government can hinder us to 12V electric cars, and there will be the enthusiasts that will find ways to make them smoke the tires and run like stink.” Exactly. The technology may change, but people will find ways to use it better. One thing that is a bit ironic, is that if there is a resurge in factory turbocharged cars. It may make things a bit easier on the aftermarket end of the spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 7:11am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753/60 "2008-02-01T07:11:43Z")
It’s just more proof that the government can’t run anything efficiently in their desire to push car makers from V6’s to turbo 4’s in mid sized cars. Sure, the turbo 4 looks great on the EPA loop, but when you drive it hard enough to get similar performance to your old V6 in normal traffic the MPG are actually worse on the turbo. Just look at real world numbers for a little Jetta 1.8T vs the VR6. Two of my friends owned a 1.8T and it was great on gas as long as your drove it like an egg was under the gas pedal. As soon as you started getting into boost much the MPG dropped off badly. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/epa-to-automakers-horsepower-war-is-over/42753.md?page=4)