# evo engine management decision **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [September 12, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293 "2005-09-12T18:36:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/21 "2005-09-13T08:44:29Z")
Now that I have already answered I have a question.🙂 What is your goal, do you want to be an engine tuner or just have a more powerful car? It could be a fun hobby. ---
**Author:** ![Zer0DazE](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/zer0daze/32/7624_2.png) [@Zer0DazE](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Zer0DazE)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:49am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/22 "2005-09-13T08:49:06Z")
> [@Rx3](#): > > That’s the next one on my list, actually. And yes, many of these books are not an end all be all. They just describe the principles and a few example techniques. You still have to use your brain and figure out how things work. > > The Maximum Boost book is a good book, but it doesn’t really delve too deeply into the tuning aspect. It is more along the lines of designing and implementing forced induction into vehicles. It does however have a nice troubleshooting section that can help you pinpoint exactly where to start looking for a problem (i.e. where to start looking as far as tuning for correcting things like knock, high EGTs, etc). It doesn’t really go into too much depth, IMHO. if you want to borrow the book shoot me a pm. edit: i can hand it off to tickleme when i drive past him in the am to give to you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tkklemann](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tkklemann/32/7298_2.png) [@Tkklemann](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Tkklemann)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/23 "2005-09-13T08:52:59Z")
I think that I am going to wait it out until DSMlink comes out, I think I convinced myself will alittle verbal abuse help from Rick. ---
**Author:** ![Violator](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/violator/32/7278_2.png) [@Violator](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Violator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/24 "2005-09-13T08:59:48Z")
> [@Zer0DazE](#): > > a general reflash is lame. its a guess… a “well it worked here, maybe it will work here too” > > stand alone \> \* > > after a few reflashed you will have paid for your aem. buy the book (they sell one) and learn to tune it yourself. you will feel good about yourself, like “wow, i should buy myself a pizza” kinda good about yourself. Thats really cute but you are basically asking someone to LEARN hot to install, use, and tune a custom standalone engine management system on a $35,000 car. THAT, I think is stupid… If you have the time and money to risk the car then by all means, go ahead. This is not a $7000 S13 or $5000 mustang project car. I would think the reflash could be done along side some dyno runs… but anyway. Point is you dont start experimenting with a new $35 thousand dollar car. Installing, undersanding, and tuning a standalone is not easy… I dont give a shit how many books somone reads or how intelligent they THINK they are. You need experience… period. If you get the AEM and PAY (a lot) a EXPERIENCED EVO TUNER shop to install, dyno, and tune the car… then the AEM is the best choice… hands down. Be ready to turn your wallet upside down. ---
**Author:** ![Zer0DazE](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/zer0daze/32/7624_2.png) [@Zer0DazE](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Zer0DazE)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/25 "2005-09-13T09:04:08Z")
cute. yea. i am sure aem or mike at innovative (who has a few evos under his belt) can provide a basemap and give him a hand getting the car running. after spending sometime reading, and helping/watching the original tuner, he should have no problem making minor adjustments here and there for added mods. after a few mods and reading he will probably be good enough to whore himself out to all his evo driving friends and get some free beer out of the deal. its tuning a car, its not rocket surgery. it used to be done with a carb, now you can acctually datalog and see whats happening. a trained monkey can do it. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 9:07am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/26 "2005-09-13T09:07:28Z")
aren’t we all trained monkeys anyhow? ---
**Author:** ![Zer0DazE](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/zer0daze/32/7624_2.png) [@Zer0DazE](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Zer0DazE)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/27 "2005-09-13T10:31:14Z")
^ that would mean that with a little reading and some help from someone with some know how that anyone could do it. nah, that cant be. tuning is like black magic ---
**Author:** ![sureshot](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/sureshot/32/7578_2.png) [@sureshot](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/sureshot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 10:41am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/28 "2005-09-13T10:41:54Z")
> [@AWDrifter](#): > > …snip I have a lot of respect for dave and dan buschur, but lately I don’t trust them or put tons of faith in them, as it seemed in less than a week he went from strongly recommending SAFCs to immediately recommending a dynoflash reflash. lately dsmtuner and evolutionm is just flooded with what feels like a buschur/dynoflash publicity tidal wave. It shouldn’t discredit them, but in my eyes it kind of does. Granted most of my parts will be coming from Buschur anyways… but each engine is different, I just can’t accept mail in flashes as being accurate enough. Do you run an EGT at least? I couldnt do it without a wideband. What if there is something different with your engine and you are running on the brink of popping? :gotme: I really don’t want to run a piggyback, and I don’t have a problem learning how to tune my own car ( after a pro like tim switzer or whoever dynotunes it first ). In fact I’d rather be capable of taking care of myself and learning myself. work edit in a sec edit: of course with all the success of DSMLink i’d like to see that too. Rick 😛 ---
**Author:** ![gsx](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/gsx/32/7277_2.png) [@gsx](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/gsx)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/29 "2005-09-13T10:50:58Z")
apexi power fc? if its close to the AEM then go with AEM though. ---
**Author:** ![Violator](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/violator/32/7278_2.png) [@Violator](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Violator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/30 "2005-09-13T11:14:06Z")
> [@Nikuk](#): > > aren’t we all trained monkeys anyhow? Im a monkey… minus the training ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/31 "2005-09-13T12:01:09Z")
> [@sureshot!](#): > > I have a lot of respect for dave and dan buschur, but lately I don’t trust them or put tons of faith in them, as it seemed in less than a week he went from strongly recommending SAFCs to immediately recommending a dynoflash reflash. lately dsmtuner and evolutionm is just flooded with what feels like a buschur/dynoflash publicity tidal wave. It shouldn’t discredit them, but in my eyes it kind of does. Granted most of my parts will be coming from Buschur anyways… but each engine is different, I just can’t accept mail in flashes as being accurate enough. Do you run an EGT at least? I couldnt do it without a wideband. What if there is something different with your engine and you are running on the brink of popping? :gotme: > > I really don’t want to run a piggyback, and I don’t have a problem learning how to tune my own car ( after a pro like tim switzer or whoever dynotunes it first ). In fact I’d rather be capable of taking care of myself and learning myself. > > work edit in a sec > > edit: of course with all the success of DSMLink i’d like to see that too. Rick 😛 I have to admit I don’t look at [evolutionm.net](http://evolutionm.net) like I used to. They may have changed recommendations for many reasons. Money or performance who knows. As for my car, it has more than 40000 miles and more than 400 buschur hp. I purchased Buschur parts very shortly after buying my car and I have put the car through it’s paces at driving events. My engine didn’t blow up and no one passed me.(reliable and fast) I guess it could pop at anytime but I believe that Buschur lowers the chances. It would be interesting to get a new tune and see what the power gains/losses are. It would also be nice to tune it myself but I just haven’t dedicated the time. If I was tuning my own car the first thing I would buy is an egt gage. It sounds like you have enough time and interest in tuning to buy a stand alone.:tup: edited for grammar.🙂 (because I care about that sort of thing) ---
**Author:** ![Jack](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jack/32/7613_2.png) [@Jack](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jack)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/32 "2005-09-13T12:57:01Z")
DSMLINK is heavily supported in WNY… which is nice. AEM EMS is supported, but by people who cost $$, but Mike is worth every penny. ---
**Author:** ![Inn-Tune](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/inn-tune/32/7588_2.png) [@Inn-Tune](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Inn-Tune)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/33 "2005-09-13T13:16:25Z")
If you want advice on engine management for your Evo I’d be happy to go through the options. I’m familiar with all of them and have experience with DynoFlash, UTEC, Xede, and AEM EMS out of the options you listed. I’m going out to tune another Evo with AEM EMS right now…because another shop mentioned in this thread screwed the tune up so badly that the owner couldn’t boost it at all without it detonating, misfiring, and falling on its face. They told him his car made 400 hp too :mamoru: -Mike ---
**Author:** ![neurokinetik](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/neurokinetik/32/7270_2.png) [@neurokinetik](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/neurokinetik)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/34 "2005-09-13T16:44:16Z")
> [@sureshot!](#): > > but each engine is different, I just can’t accept mail in flashes as being accurate enough. Well, I’m sure that they create these things with tolerances. After all, every car off the factory floor is running the same program and does not _require_ individual tuning to be able to run safely and reliably. Can more performance be extracted by tuning on a car-by-car basis? Certainly. But a _properly-engineered_ reflash should in theory work as transparently and safely as a stock ECU. ---
**Author:** ![sureshot](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/sureshot/32/7578_2.png) [@sureshot](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/sureshot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/35 "2005-09-13T17:26:14Z")
> [@neurokinetik](#): > > Well, I’m sure that they create these things with tolerances. After all, every car off the factory floor is running the same program and does not _require_ individual tuning to be able to run safely and reliably. Can more performance be extracted by tuning on a car-by-car basis? Certainly. But a _properly-engineered_ reflash should in theory work as transparently and safely as a stock ECU. I absolutely agree with what you said, however hardly anyone gets a reflash on their stock setup. My arguement is that once you start including aftermarket parts, thats when things become much less consistent. I know many aftermarket companies are getting the same base part from the same factory overseas, and they just throw their own label on it. For example, I know for a fact that HKS and BuddyClub both get their cams from the same factory, but they just have different labels, and HKS might pretty theirs up a bit. But not everything is the same. There are 101 different intakes, which can have a pretty prenounce impact on a/f. I dont think that these mail-in flashes account for all the different types. Or another example is intercooler size, which consistently varies, and will definately flow more or less air than its competitors… not to mention the fact that intercoolers come in two different types An arguement against what I’m saying is what AWDrifter brought up before… that some flash companies have predesigned ecu flashes coded in entirely based on ‘stage’ upgrades from specific companies ( buschur / dynoflash etc etc etc ) This is probably safer than a hodge podge of different parts… and maybe the ecuflashers are intentionally coding in the ecu’s to run somewhat rich so they never pop, I dont know But for what its worth I just can’t see myself doing some boltons and minor porting and then sending my ecu to be flashed for what someone ‘expects’ my a/f to be like. Its like trying to tune a car with a SAFC but no o2, or even no egt. :gotme: ---
**Author:** ![Zer0DazE](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/zer0daze/32/7624_2.png) [@Zer0DazE](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Zer0DazE)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/36 "2005-09-14T05:17:43Z")
> [@neurokinetik](#): > > Well, I’m sure that they create these things with tolerances. After all, every car off the factory floor is running the same program and does not _require_ individual tuning to be able to run safely and reliably. Can more performance be extracted by tuning on a car-by-car basis? Certainly. But a _properly-engineered_ reflash should in theory work as transparently and safely as a stock ECU. i have just about every “chip” for a honda or acura any company has ever made. i have never made less than 10 more whp than one of these chips after tuning. thats a lot when you’re talking about an engine only making 160-200whp (NA). that doesnt make me a tuning god, it just shows that they are not 1 size fits all. it doesnt require tuning, but tuning it will insure a proper tune, and a safe tune. the best bang for the buck would probably be what rick suggested… dsmlink, make it work, or wait until they release it for the evo. ---
**Author:** ![Carnut](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/carnut/32/7590_2.png) [@Carnut](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carnut)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/37 "2005-09-14T17:25:09Z")
DSM link will be released for the evo in the near future, but in all honesty with what AEM offers for the extra money it is worth it. DSM link has only 8 bin points and sets all fuel with sliders. For an EVO i would run the AEM. ---
**Author:** ![Carnut](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/carnut/32/7590_2.png) [@Carnut](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carnut)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/38 "2005-09-14T17:35:16Z")
> [@AWDrifter](#): > > I have to admit I don’t look at [evolutionm.net](http://evolutionm.net) like I used to. > They may have changed recommendations for many reasons. > Money or performance who knows. > As for my car, it has more than 40000 miles and more than 400 buschur hp. > I purchased Buschur parts very shortly after buying my car and I have put the car through it’s paces at driving events. > My engine didn’t blow up and no one passed me.(reliable and fast) > I guess it could pop at anytime but I believe that Buschur lowers the chances. > It would be interesting to get a new tune and see what the power gains/losses are. > It would also be nice to tune it myself but I just haven’t dedicated the time. > If I was tuning my own car the first thing I would buy is an egt gage. > > It sounds like you have enough time and interest in tuning to buy a stand alone.:tup: > > edited for grammar.🙂 (because I care about that sort of thing) Do you know for a fact you have more than 400hp? Do you have a turbo or a dyno sheet to prove it? World record on stock turbo was 408 whp last time i checked. ---
**Author:** ![Carnut](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/carnut/32/7590_2.png) [@Carnut](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carnut)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/39 "2005-09-14T17:39:38Z")
> [@sureshot!](#): > > I have a lot of respect for dave and dan buschur, but lately I don’t trust them or put tons of faith in them, as it seemed in less than a week he went from strongly recommending SAFCs to immediately recommending a dynoflash reflash. lately dsmtuner and evolutionm is just flooded with what feels like a buschur/dynoflash publicity tidal wave. It shouldn’t discredit them, but in my eyes it kind of does. Granted most of my parts will be coming from Buschur anyways… but each engine is different, I just can’t accept mail in flashes as being accurate enough. Do you run an EGT at least? I couldnt do it without a wideband. What if there is something different with your engine and you are running on the brink of popping? :gotme: > > I really don’t want to run a piggyback, and I don’t have a problem learning how to tune my own car ( after a pro like tim switzer or whoever dynotunes it first ). In fact I’d rather be capable of taking care of myself and learning myself. > > work edit in a sec > > edit: of course with all the success of DSMLink i’d like to see that too. Rick 😛 There is soo much more to that story than you will ever know and there is info I cannot get into here about the whole dyno flash thing…odds are they are receiving a good kick back for recommending it and it is more profitable to send the ecu out rather than spend time wiring and tuning, Buschur is a profit whore…but with a family and cars i cant blame him, lord knows i would kill to be at his level of financial success…keyword financial. ---
**Author:** ![halas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/898d66/32.png) [@halas](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/halas)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293/40 "2005-09-14T18:11:40Z")
> [@Violator](#): > > Thats really cute but you are basically asking someone to LEARN hot to install, use, and tune a custom standalone engine management system on a $35,000 car. THAT, I think is stupid… If you have the time and money to risk the car then by all means, go ahead. This is not a $7000 S13 or $5000 mustang project car. I would think the reflash could be done along side some dyno runs… but anyway. Point is you dont start experimenting with a new $35 thousand dollar car. Installing, undersanding, and tuning a standalone is not easy… I dont give a shit how many books somone reads or how intelligent they THINK they are. You need experience… period. > > If you get the AEM and PAY (a lot) a EXPERIENCED EVO TUNER shop to install, dyno, and tune the car… then the AEM is the best choice… hands down. Be ready to turn your wallet upside down. I disagree with this statement entirely. As long as you have some technical background and have your head one your shoulders anyone can tune. There is enuff documentation and people with experience that are willing to help. Like said tuning is not brain surgery its fairly basic. I learned on my $35K+ car and would again. Certainly a stand alone is another ballgame but the game is the same, with the same variables. In fact it’s easier to get a consistant tune with a stand alone than with oem operating systems because the oem systems have three times the variables to ensure proper emissions, eliminate abusive actions, etc… I was very disappointed that I have purchased a flash tune before once I got into it, what a waste of money. As stated, a few flashes would pay for the system its self or one flash usually will pay for the software needed if your can reflash the oem pcm. The funny thing is that so many people are afraid of learning and trying. The ironic thing is that they are willing to pay people to learn their systems. I have a few good examples of that last statement (_snip.)_ [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/evo-engine-management-decision/2293.md?page=3)