# Flight 3407 Tragedy Thread \*\*\*\*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic\ **Created:** [February 12, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968 "2009-02-12T20:04:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:45am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/141 "2009-02-13T05:45:04Z")
> [@Nikuk](#): > > LOTS OF WITNESS’S (RESIDENTS) REPORT ENGINES CUT OUT. ICE DOESN’T USUALLY DO THAT TO A TURBO PROP. IIRC. ICE ON THE WINGS KILLS LIFT, AND I DOUBT IT WOULD BE SUDDEN ENOUGH TO INDUCE A STALL, BUT I’M JUST SPECULATING. if they knew they were going down, would they cut the engines to reduce the risk of an explosion? ---
**Author:** ![adamantairman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@adamantairman](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/adamantairman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/142 "2009-02-13T05:46:48Z")
Found this on another forum, attributed to the woman who died in the crash coming home for her late husbands birthday. Seems rather poignant. My Silence Cannot Be Bought by Beverly Eckert I’ve chosen to go to court rather than accept a payoff from the 9/11 victims compensation fund. Instead, I want to know what went so wrong with our intelligence and security systems that a band of religious fanatics was able to turn four U.S passenger jets into an enemy force, attack our cities and kill 3,000 civilians with terrifying ease. I want to know why two 110-story skyscrapers collapsed in less than two hours and why escape and rescue options were so limited. I am suing because unlike other investigative avenues, including congressional hearings and the 9/11 commission, my lawsuit requires all testimony be given under oath and fully uses powers to compel evidence. The victims fund was not created in a spirit of compassion. Rather, it was a tacit acknowledgement by Congress that it tampered with our civil justice system in an unprecedented way. Lawmakers capped the liability of the airlines at the behest of lobbyists who descended on Washington while the Sept. 11 fires still smoldered. And this liability cap protects not just the airlines, but also World Trade Center builders, safety engineers and other defendants. The caps on liability have consequences for those who want to sue to shed light on the mistakes of 9/11. It means the playing field is tilted steeply in favor of those who need to be held accountable. With the financial consequences other than insurance proceeds removed, there is no incentive for those whose negligence contributed to the death toll to acknowledge their failings or implement reforms. They can afford to deny culpability and play a waiting game. By suing, I’ve forfeited the “$1.8 million average award” for a death claim I could have collected under the fund. Nor do I have any illusions about winning money in my suit. What I do know is I owe it to my husband, whose death I believe could have been avoided, to see that all of those responsible are held accountable. If we don’t get answers to what went wrong, there will be a next time. And instead of 3,000 dead, it will be 10,000. What will Congress do then? So I say to Congress, big business and everyone who conspired to divert attention from government and private-sector failures: My husband’s life was priceless, and I will not let his death be meaningless. My silence cannot be bought. Beverly Eckert, whose husband died at the World Trade Center, is the founder of Voices of September 11th, a victims advocacy group. ---
**Author:** ![Bull49](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bull49/32/7381_2.png) [@Bull49](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Bull49)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/143 "2009-02-13T05:47:02Z")
> [@boardjnky4](#): > > if they knew they were going down, would they cut the engines to reduce the risk of an explosion? no, it still had a shit load of fuel. engines being off doesn’t change that. edit: if they knew they were going down, they would have dumped the fuel. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/144 "2009-02-13T05:48:01Z")
NO IDEA THOM. I WOULDNT THNK ITD MAKE MUCH OF A DIFFERNCE REALLY… KERO IS PRETTY COMBUSTIBLE. IM COMPLETELY SPECULATING ON THE “TRYING TO MAKE THE FIELD” PLAN AS WELL, BASED ON THE STRAIGHT LINE APPROACH, AND IT WAS THE “SAFEST” PLACE TO GO DOWN IF YOU had TO GO DOWN. THAT, AND THE SUPPOSED 30\* DIVE. AGAIN, NO IDEA. JUST KILLING TIME HERE… lc ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/145 "2009-02-13T05:48:06Z")
> [@Nikuk](#): > > LOTS OF WITNESS’S (RESIDENTS) REPORT ENGINES CUT OUT. ICE DOESN’T USUALLY DO THAT TO A TURBO PROP. IIRC. ICE ON THE WINGS KILLS LIFT, AND I DOUBT IT WOULD BE SUDDEN ENOUGH TO INDUCE A STALL, BUT I’M JUST SPECULATING. I don’t know how much I’d believe ground witnesses, especially considering it was a turboprop. The whole doppler effect thing added to the fact that they probably don’t know what a large prop plane should sound like. From the description of the crater it left it doesn’t sound like this thing was gliding in with no power, it sounds like fell out of the sky. With other planes reporting icing on approach chances are it will come back to ice buildup on the wings causing them to lose lift. Condolences to all involved. Chances are with WNY being as tight knit a community as it is we’ll all know someone who knew someone on that plane. ---
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/146 "2009-02-13T05:51:33Z")
I am really just speculating as well, just trying to think of an explanation as to why engines would cut out suddenly. ---
**Author:** ![TrueBlue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/trueblue/32/7245_2.png) [@TrueBlue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TrueBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/147 "2009-02-13T05:52:01Z")
Unbelievable. Turned on The Weather Channel, of all things, and caught it - “What the _fuck?_” - immediately flipped to CNN. I’m coming back to Buffalo tonight. :meh: Unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/148 "2009-02-13T05:52:08Z")
Jay - were other flights reporting icing issues? It’d make a ton of sense, i just hadn’t heard it. again, conjecture here. IIRC early on Don Paul was recapping weather conditions around the time of the crash. mild winds, but right around freezing temps with the spray / sleet that was coming down - and the 2700’ ceiling. fwiw. ---
**Author:** ![Vrooom](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vrooom/32/7198_2.png) [@Vrooom](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vrooom)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/149 "2009-02-13T05:54:24Z")
this traffic control audio is…well i think I puked in my mouth a little… ---
**Author:** ![n20junkie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/n20junkie/32/7396_2.png) [@n20junkie](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/n20junkie)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/150 "2009-02-13T05:54:47Z")
The airlines had a 2 year track record with no major accidents. Sucks that we break the record in our back yard. It is creapy hearing the ATC audio, because for the first time, and accident tape has the sound of the controllers I work with almost every day on it. Last calls, left turn 3 miles from localizer cleared ILS 23. They were less than 2 miles from being on the ground. Given freq change to tower. I have heard that the Colgan aircraft do not have coupled approaches. Which means that they hand fly them all. Which opens the door to pilot error being the root cause. ---
**Author:** ![LAFENGAS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/lafengas/32/7573_2.png) [@LAFENGAS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LAFENGAS)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/151 "2009-02-13T05:55:08Z")
> [@boardjnky4](#): > > I am really just speculating as well, just trying to think of an explanation as to why engines would cut out suddenly. If they knew they were going down…maybe they where shut-off to prevent propeller debris from being flung through the fuselage? :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Draftinwitjr3815](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/draftinwitjr3815/32/5349_2.png) [@Draftinwitjr3815](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Draftinwitjr3815)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/152 "2009-02-13T05:56:36Z")
Who knows what happened, in due time they’ll figure it out and we’ll all know. RIP Flight 3407. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/153 "2009-02-13T05:58:00Z")
> [@n20junkie](#): > > The airlines had a 2 year track record with no major accidents. Sucks that we break the record in our back yard. > > It is creapy hearing the ATC audio, because for the first time, and accident tape has the sound of the controllers I work with almost every day on it. Ooof, thats gotta be a bit unerving man. :tdown: ---
**Author:** ![yamba6](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/yamba6/32/5161_2.png) [@yamba6](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/yamba6)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/154 "2009-02-13T05:58:53Z")
my guess is that they knew they were going down, so they figured instead of trying to land flat and take out a whole shit load of things, they new it was going to be a shitty situation when they were just about at ground level, they must of dropped the nose to try and take out one thing and one thing only seeing as usually the pilots are trained to cause as little destruction as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Vrooom](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vrooom/32/7198_2.png) [@Vrooom](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vrooom)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/155 "2009-02-13T05:59:40Z")
> [@Nikuk](#): > > Jay - were other flights reporting icing issues? It’d make a ton of sense, i just hadn’t heard it. again, conjecture here. > > fwiw. sounded like 2 or 3 other flights were reporting ice… “icing for quite a while now.” …“icing for the last 20 miles or so” ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/156 "2009-02-13T06:00:01Z")
but they are still trained to save as many lives as possible. c’mon Yambag… ---
**Author:** ![justa4door](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/justa4door/32/7259_2.png) [@justa4door](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/justa4door)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/157 "2009-02-13T06:03:01Z")
but what about the fact that the plane did not skid or slide … just right into the house and that was it… ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/158 "2009-02-13T06:03:26Z")
> [@Nikuk](#): > > Jay - were other flights reporting icing issues? > **[Search for answers begins in Buffalo plane crash - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/13/plane.crash.new.york/index.html)** > > The pilots of a commuter airliner that crashed late Thursday about 6 miles from a Buffalo, New York, airport discussed "significant ice buildup" on the plane's wings and windshields before the plane plunged to the ground, killing 50. > It was not clear whether the mix of sleet and snow in the area played any role in the crash of Flight 3407. Other planes continued to arrive and land safely at Buffalo about the time the flight went down. Delta Flight 1998, an MD-88 jet, landed at approximately 10:17 p.m. The Delta crew did not see Flight 3407. > The Delta flight reported **rime icing** , a condition in which ice quickly builds up on the leading edge of the wings. > **Rime Ice** is formed when smaller, fast moving, supercooled droplets hit the airframe and freeze instantly. They do not spread across the surface but freeze where they hit. As hundreds of these hit the airframe they trap air in pockets between frozen droplets. This gives Rime ice a milky appearance, compared to the “Clear” ice. Rime ice is much lighter due to the air trapped within. But the rough irregular surface can so significantly disrupt the airflow over the wings and other control surfaces that control is impossible. Rime icing is common in areas with drizzle and usually stratus types of clouds. ---
**Author:** ![justa4door](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/justa4door/32/7259_2.png) [@justa4door](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/justa4door)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:05am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/159 "2009-02-13T06:05:49Z")
so the rime icing could have been in play for the loss of “lift” to come down that hard is it true that people like 15 miles away felt it? ---
**Author:** ![Vile](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vile/32/7595_2.png) [@Vile](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vile)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968/160 "2009-02-13T06:06:55Z")
> [@justa4door](#): > > but what about the fact that the plane did not skid or slide … just right into the house and that was it… small planes dont glide… they just drop like a brick i was on that flight last friday… scary and my g/f’s aunt lives 4 houses from the crash… RIP [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/flight-3407-tragedy-thread/62968.md?page=9)