# Ford Dealer Fights Back **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [December 16, 2008, 8:40am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819 "2008-12-16T08:40:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/41 "2008-12-16T12:21:57Z")
> [@Joe](#): > > Toyota is going to go through the same shit as they get more mature in this country. Watch and see. Union or no union. the difference is that Toyota has the ability to lay people off and cut costs if they need to. GM/Ford don’t have that flexibility ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/42 "2008-12-16T12:22:43Z")
> [@Paulo](#): > > It’s incredible. What is really amazing is to hear and see the COMPLETE OPPOSITE at Toyota. Where people get fired for being pieces of shit and escorted out by police. (not kidding) lol can you say culture shock? ---
**Author:** ![Paulo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/paulo/32/7328_2.png) [@Paulo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Paulo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/43 "2008-12-16T12:22:47Z")
> [@Joe](#): > > Toyota is going to go through the same shit as they get more mature in this country. Watch and see. Union or no union. I don’t believe that. Lean manufacturing my friend. Toyota will hang in there and sustain. While they may not make as much on each car later on, they won’t start losing money because of their employees… ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/44 "2008-12-16T12:27:08Z")
So basically we want all of our US corporations to become fully self-serving, neglect and screw workers as much as possible, and just generally treat them like shit. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Paulo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/paulo/32/7328_2.png) [@Paulo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Paulo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/45 "2008-12-16T12:30:00Z")
> [@Joe](#): > > So basically we want all of our US corporations to become fully self-serving, neglect and screw workers as much as possible, and just generally treat them like shit. Gotcha. Or we want business oriented EMPLOYEES with a fucking work ethic who will get off their god damn asses to actually do work for the company that is paying for them to make a living, support their families, cover their health costs and put their fucking kids through college. You’re right, WAAAAY too much to ask. :cjerk: ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/46 "2008-12-16T12:31:08Z")
> [@Joe](#): > > So basically we want all of our US corporations to become fully self-serving, neglect and screw workers as much as possible, and just generally treat them like shit. Gotcha. sounds like Toyota’s doing fine… even their employees don’t want the union in there. I work at a non-union site… I get treated fairly… no complaints. I’d be willing to bet that 80-90% of this board are non-union and get fair wages/treated like they should. If not, then call your lawyer (and OSHA) and get shit done ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/47 "2008-12-16T12:35:42Z")
Toyota is offering the same as the UAW because of the UAW’s existence. They wouldn’t arbitrarily choose to pay that much if the UAW disappeared. Since they have no contracts, they could cut everyone’s pay in half and the people would have no alternative. Unions came about for a reason. Corporations fucked people over hard after the industrial revolution. Now we’re seeing swings too far in the other direction after an overcorrection, where unions fucked over corporations hard. If it swings back the other way, look out. Guess what? Your company doesn’t give a shit about you. If they find out they can pay someone less somewhere else to do your job and still offer you a token severance and get the same quality, bye. If they find out they can cut your wages and you wouldn’t quit, your wages will be cut. If they can double your workload and pay you no more money, they will. If they need to gain a quarter of a point by cutting your job, they will. If they think your health insurance is too expensive and they cut it, better hope you don’t get hit by a bus or get cancer. And you can’t do a damn thing about it. You’re at their mercy. Unions are the only thing that does look out for the interests of many of these workers. ---
**Author:** ![nitroinsane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d26b3c/32.png) [@nitroinsane](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/nitroinsane)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/48 "2008-12-16T12:37:26Z")
So lets all move to mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Paulo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/paulo/32/7328_2.png) [@Paulo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Paulo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/49 "2008-12-16T12:39:08Z")
> [@Joe](#): > > Toyota is offering the same as the UAW because of the UAW’s existence. They wouldn’t arbitrarily choose to pay that much if the UAW disappeared. Since they have no contracts, they could cut everyone’s pay in half and the people would have no alternative. > > Unions came about for a reason. Corporations fucked people over hard after the industrial revolution. Now we’re seeing swings too far in the other direction after an overcorrection, where unions fucked over corporations hard. If it swings back the other way, look out. I think were beyond that. Other non-union companies aren’t making nearly as much. Lookup how much Honda pays their employees. Doesn’t compare really. Last I heard it was low $20 in Ontario compared to Toyota’s $33/hr. When a company does well, the employees do well. It’s a balance that exists and people running the show know it, and will want to keep their employees happy, and working hard. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/50 "2008-12-16T12:39:35Z")
They could do that now and guess what? people would still take the work over being unemployed… you make it sound like they’re going to start giving out $0.10 a day wage and have children clean the stamps (while they’re running of course :P) ---
**Author:** ![walter](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/walter/32/7202_2.png) [@walter](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/walter)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/51 "2008-12-16T12:39:40Z")
Why is this a good read? Sounds like just another moron spouting off on things that don’t really apply? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/52 "2008-12-16T12:40:09Z")
> [@Paulo](#): > > When a company does well, the employees do well. It’s a balance that exists and people running the show know it, and will want to keep their employees happy, and working hard. X23914691369412349 ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/53 "2008-12-16T12:43:12Z")
> [@Dr.Stevil](#): > > They could do that now and guess what? people would still take the work over being unemployed… > > you make it sound like they’re going to start giving out $0.10 a day wage and have children clean the stamps (while they’re running of course :P) That’s called outsourcing 😛 They LOVE doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/54 "2008-12-16T12:44:01Z")
> [@nitroinsane](#): > > So lets all move to mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/55 "2008-12-16T12:44:37Z")
> [@Joe](#): > > That’s called outsourcing 😛 They LOVE doing that. if not for that, I wouldn’t have a job lol ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/56 "2008-12-16T12:45:17Z")
This is why we can’t have nice things. And what about the companies that offer employees little or no bonus, or even lay people off, when they are thriving, yet slash everything the minute things get dicey? They are much worse than unions getting a little too much for the little guy. ---
**Author:** ![Paulo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/paulo/32/7328_2.png) [@Paulo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Paulo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/57 "2008-12-16T12:50:24Z")
> [@Joe](#): > > That’s called outsourcing 😛 They LOVE doing that. Not while, now more than ever, Americans are conscious of where the products they are buying are being produced. A number of Toyota vehicles have higher percentages of domestic content than a lot of Ford/Gm vehicles because of THEIR outsourcing. ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/58 "2008-12-16T12:53:19Z")
Americans are conscious, but they don’t really care. Walmart’s sales go up every year. People generally use that as an afterthought to justify a purchase they’ve already made. The average american consumer cares much more about price than country of origin, or even quality. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/59 "2008-12-16T13:11:47Z")
> [@Joe](#): > > This is why we can’t have nice things. > > And what about the companies that offer employees little or no bonus, or even lay people off, when they are thriving, yet slash everything the minute things get dicey? They are much worse than unions getting a little too much for the little guy. can you elaborate a little on this? ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819/60 "2008-12-16T13:16:29Z")
The entire economic recovery, from 2002ish til about a year ago, saw the DOW run way up in price, companies start pulling in huge profits, but there were companies downsizing their workforces, outsourcing, laying people off, etc. all throughout the process. How many non-union places do you really think let the employees take their equal share of the good times, compared to the crap they dump on them in the bad? Most of them give an extra penny on the dollar in good times and take back 50 cents in the bad. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ford-dealer-fights-back/59819.md?page=4)