# GM is the ruler of the free world **URL:** \ **Category:** Shift518 Automotive\ **Created:** [November 24, 2008, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370 "2008-11-24T06:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![JRubino](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jrubino/32/6285_2.png) [@JRubino](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JRubino)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/81 "2008-11-25T11:48:38Z")
> [@n!cole](#): > > Could save a lot of money just limiting to one or the other. > > Never been in the new Tundra, but I have been in the new Silverado. I did like it. But I said nothing about what you retorted with. I said it LOOKS cooler. ;D I saw what you wrote. I wouldn’t buy a truck solely based on it’s looks though. ---
**Author:** ![psi2high](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/psi2high/32/6320_2.png) [@psi2high](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/psi2high)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/82 "2008-11-25T11:49:01Z")
Not at all…but you did buy a ram :umm ---
**Author:** ![n\_cole](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/n_cole/32/6382_2.png) [@n\_cole](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/n_cole)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/83 "2008-11-25T11:49:09Z")
I wouldn’t buy a truck at all - I have no use for it. :lol ---
**Author:** ![99FRC](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/99frc/32/6335_2.png) [@99FRC](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/99FRC)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/84 "2008-11-25T11:49:15Z")
> [@JClark](#): > > We’re saying the same thing. If you can get a better product for the same amount of money, doesnt it make the GM product sub-par? How else can you define it? You could define it as it being cheaper for outside companies to make a car, there for you can get the same if not a better car than GM for the same price, maybe even cheaper. Cheaper labor, etc. It is not because GM product is sub-par or shitty. Its the way its sold. ---
**Author:** ![plaf713](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@plaf713](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/plaf713)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/85 "2008-11-25T11:49:32Z")
> [@Pants Party](#): > > They can have good products and have shitty sales. Its basic economics. Again, its the way the product is sold. > > For example, they have a good product but they push it at the wrong time, or if they have a good product and they sell it at the wrong price, sales will decline or not even exist. Those are just two very simple factors that can affect sales in a major way. > > My argument is against Shawn stating that the main reason for GM’s decline in sales is the product. i dunno man, like the hybrid escalades and shit like that, everyone is marketing affordable hybrids and GM decides that a 70,000 dollar 7000 pound SUV was going to solve the problems of a gas crisis, in reality the car didnt really get good gas mileage in the first place. But do you think that the escalade is worth that much? I think both cases are right, bad timing, poor judgement, overpricing, it all takes its toll ---
**Author:** ![psi2high](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/psi2high/32/6320_2.png) [@psi2high](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/psi2high)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/86 "2008-11-25T11:50:48Z")
To little to late ---
**Author:** ![n\_cole](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/n_cole/32/6382_2.png) [@n\_cole](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/n_cole)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/87 "2008-11-25T11:51:01Z")
Especially when the Tahoe is cheaper, and also comes in a hybrid. ---
**Author:** ![JRubino](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jrubino/32/6285_2.png) [@JRubino](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JRubino)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/88 "2008-11-25T11:51:38Z")
> [@psi2high](#): > > Not at all…but you did buy a ram :umm I don’t regret it either. That was a nice truck. I’d buy another one too. ---
**Author:** ![99FRC](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/99frc/32/6335_2.png) [@99FRC](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/99FRC)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/89 "2008-11-25T11:51:41Z")
> [@plaf713](#): > > i dunno man, like the hybrid escalades and shit like that, everyone is marketing affordable hybrids and GM decides that a 70,000 dollar 7000 pound SUV was going to solve the problems of a gas crisis, in reality the car didnt really get good gas mileage in the first place. But do you think that the escalade is worth that much? I think both cases are right, bad timing, poor judgement, overpricing, it all takes its toll I agree with this. But the main argument i’m making is against Shawn stating that GM’s decline is due to the product in itself. ---
**Author:** ![psi2high](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/psi2high/32/6320_2.png) [@psi2high](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/psi2high)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/90 "2008-11-25T11:52:14Z")
> [@JRubino](#): > > I don’t regret it either. That was a nice truck. I’d buy another one too. Horrible when it comes to some thing you are going to drive every day ---
**Author:** ![plaf713](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@plaf713](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/plaf713)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/91 "2008-11-25T11:52:43Z")
everyone has there own opinion, by no means is anyone on the site an expert, take it for what it is and move on ---
**Author:** ![JRubino](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jrubino/32/6285_2.png) [@JRubino](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JRubino)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/92 "2008-11-25T11:56:13Z")
> [@psi2high](#): > > Horrible when it comes to some thing you are going to drive every day I knew that all too well. Then I got the new job and NEVER drove it. ---
**Author:** ![Singh1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba8739/32.png) [@Singh1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Singh1)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/93 "2008-11-25T12:08:56Z")
idk GM is just a big box of phail IMO some of the cars they got are really hot, but they are just failin badly lately, and the economy isnt the reason they are failing, its helping them tho 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/94 "2008-11-25T12:26:56Z")
> [@Pants Party](#): > > You could define it as it being cheaper for outside companies to make a car, there for you can get the same if not a better car than GM for the same price, maybe even cheaper. Cheaper labor, etc. > > It is not because GM product is sub-par or shitty. Its the way its sold. What are you talking about? Is a Malibu built to the same quality standard as a Camry? No. Subpar product. End of story. That’s the definition. The only way GM can sell them is cheaply, at a loss for the company. Not a sustainable business model. That means the product is bad. Therefore the business is bad. They were pimping trucks for so long because it was the most profitable product they had. Smart move. Putting themselves in that position was not a smart move. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn96VR-4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Shawn96VR-4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Shawn96VR-4)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/95 "2008-11-25T12:29:11Z")
> [@Pants Party](#): > > You are twisting this around. YOU said that the reason GM was failing is because of the shitty products you think they sell. I said they were pushing products that the market didn’t want to buy (ie their light truck/SUV push) > [@Pants Party](#): > > I responed by saying no, the reason they are failing is because of the how the business is conducted in stride with the economy failing. You strengthened my argument by saying they were selling the wrong product at the wrong time with Tahoe. I agree. Thats their own dumb fault. But AGAIN it has very little to do with GM cars/trucks as a product. This is ridiculous. It has everything to do with the product. That’s what GM sells. Also, the economy wasn’t in issue in the previous quarter **s** losses. Stop trying to use the economy as a crutch. It’s not valid. > [@plaf713](#): > > somewhat, just because something is overpriced doesnt mean that the product is no good, just means its not the best thing you can buy for x amount of dollars Correct. But that still means there is a problem with the product. The cost of the product doesn’t match the value in some consumers. > [@Pants Party](#): > > My argument is against Shawn stating that the main reason for GM’s decline in sales is the product. Why does the superior GM have a problem anyhow? :roll: I guess it depends how you look at it but if the product doesn’t sell, then it’s the product regardless it’s simply priced out. Or, you still on the economy thing? ---
**Author:** ![Shawn96VR-4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Shawn96VR-4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Shawn96VR-4)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/96 "2008-11-25T12:30:01Z")
> [@Pants Party](#): > > I agree with this. But the main argument i’m making is against Shawn stating that GM’s decline is due to the product in itself. I didn’t say it was the product itself entirely. I said it’s ONE of the criticms against GM. But, when I take a look at JD Edwards and other quality reports, it’s not GM at the top but the Jap cars. You don’t think people realize that? One of the reason why Camry/Accord sell so well is that it’s a quality car that resells well. ---
**Author:** ![Singh1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba8739/32.png) [@Singh1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Singh1)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/97 "2008-11-25T12:33:17Z")
i def agree that the product is the problem, and GM really isnt cutting it, but i dont see other american auto makers far behind lol ---
**Author:** ![crazybrew609](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/crazybrew609/32/6319_2.png) [@crazybrew609](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/crazybrew609)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/98 "2008-11-25T12:42:30Z")
the fact that gm double markets it’s car is really why it hurts them so much… outside of trucks and SUV’s haivng huge left-over numbers the car lines are all just re-peats of other gm lines chevy cobalt/pontiac g5 pontiac g6/saturn aura/chevy malibu pontiac solstice/saturn sky those 3 similarities right there is what kills the market for themself… why not cut out the copy’s, save the money that was gunna be used to manufacture them and make a different car like saturn did with the astra… it was made in europe for over a decade and they brought it over here… it shares nothing with the cobalts or any other american gm product. but gm still manages to shoot themself in the foot by only offering the car with a 1.8l… while over in europe it has 3 gas engines, 2 diesel’s and a turbo 2.0l (similar to a saab not a new cobalt)… so instead of coming out with a fun fast hatchback that can be made to fit a huge demagraphic with a ton of backing already on the other side of the world they just gave it a boring engine platform and an even worse gearbox is it really that hard to make a wrx/evo/old school eclipse/civic? it can be done by the “smaller” car companies of the world… why can’t gm do it? GM to me is like the new M.C. HAMMER… more money then god when it was the only one around with huge pants and a fast mouth but once a few more people show up with the same thing everyone realizes that the origonal isn’t really all that good and then your broke and new to go on reality TV just to make a buck /rant… i hate typing long posts oh an P.S. i work for GENERAL MOTORS and even i feel like they need to file chapter 11 ---
**Author:** ![Shawn96VR-4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Shawn96VR-4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Shawn96VR-4)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/99 "2008-11-25T12:43:55Z")
Great idea. I’ve wondered that myself with Ford/Mercury. ---
**Author:** ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370/100 "2008-11-25T12:48:32Z")
There is a reason for brand “duplication” and if it wasn’t profitable, it wouldn’t exist. A different brand produces a new different image that reaches new customers. It’s the reason Acura and Lexus exist just to sell really optioned-out Accords and Camrys. The expensive engineering has already been done. Slap on new body panels and add $10,000 to the price. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-is-the-ruler-of-the-free-world/240370.md?page=6)