# GM Restructuring plan: Saturn axed, Hummer/Saab for sale, Pontiac scaled down **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [February 18, 2009, 8:02am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225 "2009-02-18T08:02:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/41 "2009-02-18T13:45:23Z")
> [@theblue](#): > > pontiac is important… it sells well to the 16-35 segment who don’t want a chevy, but can’t afford something better and want a new car. (no offense, that’s how I see it). > > put another way, pontiac is a lot like what scion is to toyota in marketing terms. If they want to keep Pontiac they need to follow Toyota’s lead and have Pontiac only models, not re-badged Chevys. Solstice = Great sporty 2 seater. G8 = Great sporty large sedan. G6 = why when you have the Cobalt G5 = why when you have the Cobalt G3 = why when you have the Aveo Torrent = why when you have the Equinox, not even remotely sporty. There is probably room for a real sporty small sedan in the Pontiac lineup, but only if it’s something that isn’t directly competing with the Cobalt SS. Really, Scion was a failure for Toyota. They launched the brand to try lowering their age demographic but most of the stuff you read says the majority of Scion owners are the same age as Toyota buyers (read, old). If that’s the case it means Scion is probably competing with Toyota, not drawing in a new youthful demo like they had hoped. C&D mentioned that the average scion buyer is 39, yet the whole point of the brand was to get into the 18-24 market where Toyota was failing. > **[Scion sales are down, brand image in flux - Autoblog](http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/04/scion-sales-are-down-brands-image-is-in-flux/)** > > Click above for a high-res gallery of the 2008 Scion xB. ---
**Author:** ![91MR2](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/91mr2/32/7217_2.png) [@91MR2](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/91MR2)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/42 "2009-02-18T14:05:41Z")
You know, I always thought Saturn was one of the more impressive arms of GM…oh well, no skin off my nose… ---
**Author:** ![JustinH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JustinH](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JustinH)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/43 "2009-02-18T14:29:50Z")
I agree. Saturn will get bought up by someone. As a saturn owner, I just wonder how tough it is going to be to get parts for my 2003 Ion. The only good thing it has going for it, is that it is a cobalt with a plastic body. ---
**Author:** ![dftsilvia](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/dftsilvia/32/7447_2.png) [@dftsilvia](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/dftsilvia)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/44 "2009-02-18T16:02:17Z")
> [@OfficerK](#): > > Good start, now axe GMC and combine Buick with Cadillac and you are beginning to make a difference. that makes too much sense, that will never happen ---
**Author:** ![Beck](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/beck/32/28683_2.png) [@Beck](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Beck)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/45 "2009-02-18T16:40:36Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > If they want to keep Pontiac they need to follow Toyota’s lead and have Pontiac only models, not re-badged Chevys. > > Solstice = Great sporty 2 seater. > G8 = Great sporty large sedan. > > G6 = why when you have the Cobalt > G5 = why when you have the Cobalt > G3 = why when you have the Aveo > Torrent = why when you have the Equinox, not even remotely sporty. > > There is probably room for a real sporty small sedan in the Pontiac lineup, but only if it’s something that isn’t directly competing with the Cobalt SS. > > **Really, Scion was a failure for Toyota. They launched the brand to try lowering their age demographic but most of the stuff you read says the majority of Scion owners are the same age as Toyota buyers (read, old). If that’s the case it means Scion is probably competing with Toyota, not drawing in a new youthful demo like they had hoped. C&D mentioned that the average scion buyer is 39, yet the whole point of the brand was to get into the 18-24 market where Toyota was failing.** > > [Scion sales are down, brand image in flux - Autoblog](http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/04/scion-sales-are-down-brands-image-is-in-flux/) Scion was started originally as what we know @ Toyota as “Toyota Project Genesis”. You are correct with regards to the many points you made. It is true that Scion was started to introduce “Generation Y” friendly vehicles. The median age of Scion buyers is 39 years old. However, the median age being 39 is the lowest in the industry. Also, you do not take into account how many 18 - 22 year old’s that had to have their older parents co-sign loans for them. The reason Scion failed (in regards to the reason why it was created) for Toyota is because it was supposed to get the younger crowd interested in Toyota’s when it came to purchase a new vehicle after ownership of their Scion. It didn’t. This is why it failed. Not because of the median age being 39 (which again is the lowest out of any manufacturer), but because the 18-24 year old demographic which is getting out of their Scion’s aren’t purchasing Toyota’s for a replacement vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/46 "2009-02-18T16:41:06Z")
> [@double j](#): > > Saturn ruined it’s niche when they combined platforms. I know a lot of people who loved the SL cars (myself not included). When the Ion was introduced, it was basically a plastic Cobalt. That turned off a lot of hardcore Saturn people. When the Ion was introduced there was no Cobalt. It was not just another pretty face! It could be had with a durable 5 speed automatic OR CVT! And a central mount instrument cluster! And the ugliest steering wheel of this decade! ---
**Author:** ![Adictd2b00st](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/adictd2b00st/32/7625_2.png) [@Adictd2b00st](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Adictd2b00st)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/47 "2009-02-18T18:28:34Z")
> [@91MR2](#): > > You know, I always thought Saturn was one of the more impressive arms of GM…oh well, no skin off my nose… me too Joe lol ---
**Author:** ![kenmxz13](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/kenmxz13/32/5288_2.png) [@kenmxz13](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/kenmxz13)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:28am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/48 "2009-02-20T08:28:40Z")
Most people don’t realize this but Buick sells extremely well in China (better than US) and there’s no way GM would want to cut the Buick division ---
**Author:** ![theblue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/theblue/32/5074_2.png) [@theblue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/theblue)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/49 "2009-02-20T08:37:54Z")
we all know buick sell well in china… so let’s SELL BUICK TO CHINA while they’re dumb enough to pay a pretty penny for it. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/50 "2009-02-20T08:44:28Z")
Saab is actually Bankrupt? Woah. ---
**Author:** ![kenmxz13](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/kenmxz13/32/5288_2.png) [@kenmxz13](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/kenmxz13)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/51 "2009-02-20T08:47:44Z")
All of these quotes from this thread seem to say to axe buick, not sell it, so apparently not everyone is aware of its success in China. > [@theblue](#): > > wtf… KILL BUICK… shit needs to go… maybe even keep saturn…:feck: > [@Mike93](#): > > Was long overdue…hopefully this does get them back on track financially. I do agree that GMC and Buick could go, and would do so without too many tears shed. > > I noticed they mentioned Ford was holding onto Mercury…for the life of me I don’t understand why they still keep this brand around. > [@camarojoe](#): > > Keep Chevy, Pontiac, Caddy, and Saturn. > Axe GMC and just make Chevy trucks their only truck line. > Axe Buick and move people over to Chevy or even Caddy. Not like Buick really had it’s own identity other than a few different components than a Chevy. > Saturn actually has good sales and following. I think it would be a more valid brand to keep around than Buick. > [@95dime](#): > > i still think buick needs to go. i do not see the up coming generations who are getting older to be buying buicks. i see more and more old people in chevys actually. > [@jt76](#): > > Buick is the old man car of GM, more so than caddy these days… I dont really see people of my father’s generation buying a Buick when they reach the grandpa age, so axe that. ---
**Author:** ![Afrank45](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/afrank45/32/5021_2.png) [@Afrank45](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Afrank45)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/52 "2009-02-20T08:48:50Z")
> [@theblue](#): > > we all know buick sell well in china… so let’s SELL BUICK TO CHINA while they’re dumb enough to pay a pretty penny for it. that makes far too much sense??? ---
**Author:** ![fiend540](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bcef8e/32.png) [@fiend540](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fiend540)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/53 "2009-02-20T08:52:40Z")
For the buick haters, is there a chance that maybe buick sells better than you think? I have yet to see proof either way but one would hope there is reason behind keeping the brand. ---
**Author:** ![Afrank45](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/afrank45/32/5021_2.png) [@Afrank45](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Afrank45)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/54 "2009-02-20T08:55:31Z")
> [@fiend540](#): > > For the buick haters, is there a chance that maybe buick sells better than you think? I have yet to see proof either way but one would hope there is reason behind keeping the brand. I dont think it buick hating more as the need to cut costs to get back into a profitable state. If buicks sell so well over seas then sell the rights to toyota or someone else, so instead of just axing a department they could possibly sell it to save money and make an immediate profit. ---
**Author:** ![fiend540](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bcef8e/32.png) [@fiend540](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fiend540)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/55 "2009-02-20T08:57:13Z")
> [@Afrank45](#): > > I dont think it buick hating more as the need to cut costs to get back into a profitable state. If buicks sell so well over seas then sell the rights to toyota or someone else, so instead of just axing a department they could possibly sell it to save money and make an immediate profit. But you are assuming buick doesn’t sell well in the states, yet I see nothing to back that up. Maybe buick sales are better than saturn/pontiac hence they are getting the axe. ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/56 "2009-02-20T08:59:23Z")
> **[Buick bucks the trend](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12801549/)** > > Buick’s sizzling sales have driven General Motors — even as it closes plants and lays off workers at home — to the top of the pack in China. NBC’s Peter Alexander reports from Shanghai. Old article but it gives you an idea of the opportunity for Buick in China. Owning one there is the true sign you’ve “made it” ---
**Author:** ![kenmxz13](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/kenmxz13/32/5288_2.png) [@kenmxz13](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/kenmxz13)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/57 "2009-02-20T09:04:20Z")
Maybe they don’t want to sell Buick because it’s one of their few profitable ventures?:picard: ---
**Author:** ![fiend540](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bcef8e/32.png) [@fiend540](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fiend540)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/58 "2009-02-20T09:05:23Z")
> [@kenmxz13](#): > > Maybe they don’t want to sell Buick because it’s one of their few profitable ventures?:picard: Impossible, buicks are gay and for old men, no one else buys them so they should just get rid of them. ---
**Author:** ![double\_j](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/double_j/32/7380_2.png) [@double\_j](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/double_j)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225/59 "2009-02-20T09:09:55Z")
Buick still sold 6 digit numbers in 2008, so did Saturn. [http://www.leftlanenews.com/decembe.html](http://www.leftlanenews.com/decembe.html) [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-restructuring-plan-saturn-axed-hummer-saab-for-sale-pontiac-scaled-down/63225.md?page=2)