# GM says you don't own your car, you just license it **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [May 21, 2015, 10:42am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340 "2015-05-21T10:42:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LZ1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LZ1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LZ1)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 10:42am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/1 "2015-05-21T10:42:04Z")
> **[GM says you don't own your car, you just license it](https://boingboing.net/2015/05/21/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-ca.html)** > > GM says you don't own your car, you just license it "GM has joined with [John Deere](http://boingboing.net/2015/05/13/john-deere-of-course-you-ow.html) in asking the government to confirm that you literally cannot own your car because of the software in its engine.Like Deere, GM wants to stop the Copyright Office from granting an exemption to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act that would allow you to jailbreak the code in your car’s engine so that you can take it to a non-GM mechanic for service, or fix it yourself. By controlling who can service your car, GM can force you to buy only official, expensive parts, protecting its bottom line. As Consumerist quips, GM wants you to know that the car in the driveway is "_literally_ not your father’s Oldsmobile."GM’s claim is all about copyright and software code, and it’s the same claim John Deere is making about their tractors. The TL;DR version of the argument goes something like this: - Cars work because software tells all the parts how to operate - The software that tells all the parts to operate is customized code - That code is subject to copyright - GM owns the copyright on that code and that software - A modern car cannot run without that software; it is integral to all systems - Therefore, the purchase or use of that car is a licensing agreement - And since it is subject to a licensing agreement, GM is the owner and can allow/disallow certain uses or access. [GM: That Car You Bought? We’re Really The Ones Who Own It.](http://consumerist.com/2015/05/20/gm-that-car-you-bought-were-really-the-ones-who-own-it/) [Kate Cox/Consumerist]" should be really interesting to see how this plays out ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/2 "2015-05-21T10:47:26Z")
At least GM bought everything back from the Treasury Dept so this isn’t a giant clusterfuck conflict of interest. :roll2: ---
**Author:** ![1QIKZ](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/1qikz/32/6112_2.png) [@1QIKZ](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/1QIKZ)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/3 "2015-05-21T10:59:03Z")
What part of the computer communicates with the ball joints? Great plan. Hold millions hostage with their own cars. ---
**Author:** ![LZ1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LZ1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LZ1)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/4 "2015-05-21T11:02:24Z")
All of the computers in cars are making things really interesting we just filled out a RFP for a security audit of a new car :lol: ---
**Author:** ![somedude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@somedude](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/somedude)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/5 "2015-05-21T11:18:17Z")
I am very interested to see how this plays out. I hope the government shoots it down but I can see both sides of things. It would make a 10 year old GM way to expensive for someone in the hood to own if they had to go to the dealer for service. I am not sure how that would reflect on resale values. ---
**Author:** ![LZ1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LZ1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LZ1)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/6 "2015-05-21T11:23:34Z")
Might make for a very interesting aftermarket PCM replacement program. One of the reasons they’re doing this is at some point in the neat future they’re going to deploy vehicle to vehcile communications and they’re kinda worried about people hacking it and fucking around. ---
**Author:** ![drewster99](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/drewster99/32/5468_2.png) [@drewster99](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/drewster99)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/7 "2015-05-21T11:52:04Z")
So are they going to come with lifetime warranties then? Good thing I don’t want a GM or a tractor. ---
**Author:** ![LZ1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LZ1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LZ1)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/8 "2015-05-21T11:58:58Z")
> [@drewster99](#): > > So are they going to come with lifetime warranties then? Good thing I don’t want a GM or a tractor. It’s not about GM it would be an industry wide issue ---
**Author:** ![95dime](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/95dime/32/7514_2.png) [@95dime](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/95dime)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/9 "2015-05-21T12:00:09Z")
I left GM a couple cars ago, but I imagine other manufactures will follow pending how this plays out. Glad I don’t plan to buy another new vehicle when it comes time to replace the DD. ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/10 "2015-05-21T12:41:30Z")
Yeah there are several manufacturers pursuing this. There is a list out there somewhere. It’s not just GM. ---
**Author:** ![97FormulaWS-6](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/97formulaws-6/32/7384_2.png) [@97FormulaWS-6](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/97FormulaWS-6)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/11 "2015-05-21T12:48:55Z")
Prepping for self-driving cars and trying to head-off areas they could be sued for in regards to software manipulation. ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/12 "2015-05-21T17:57:52Z")
I love GM cars but this is a fucked up point of view. I hope they get their asses handed to them. Once you own something you should be free to modify it as you please. If they want to cut off modified vehicles from P2P communication oveir their network the way a modded Xbox gets banned, fine. But to challenge the legality of doing it? No. ---
**Author:** ![joelster](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joelster/32/7258_2.png) [@joelster](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/joelster)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/13 "2015-05-21T18:51:48Z")
What would stop you from purchasing an additional computer, and reflashing the additional computer with your own software tweak. Then swapping the computers out so your own car is running on your own tweaked version of software? ---
**Author:** ![LZ1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LZ1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LZ1)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/14 "2015-05-21T19:39:13Z")
Well for one the PCM is emissions equipment so CARB and federal regulations The hardware for the PCM and the connectors are most likely propritary. Also having the deal with interfacing with the BCM and gauges would also be a cluster fuck ---
**Author:** ![2TurboZ](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/2turboz/32/7577_2.png) [@2TurboZ](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/2TurboZ)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/15 "2015-05-21T19:48:57Z")
The machines will rule the world soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/16 "2015-05-22T00:39:32Z")
Can the cars talk to Skynet? Or Mr Smith? ---
**Author:** ![05OrangeSS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/0/eada6e/32.png) [@05OrangeSS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/05OrangeSS)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/17 "2015-05-22T14:48:25Z")
I mean there will always be stand alone systems like AEM, Haltech, Motec etc who will have programmable ecus to make everything work. They don’t pass obd plug ins but a simple swap of the ECU does wonders ---
**Author:** ![slo\_ride](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@slo\_ride](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/slo_ride)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/18 "2015-05-22T20:01:32Z")
…but you can get killed by a minor fender bender when your airbag goes off like a claymore mine…or maybe you ignition fails…but yeah it’s those software modifications we need to worry about ---
**Author:** ![Deathproof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@Deathproof](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Deathproof)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/19 "2015-05-23T16:14:09Z")
I generally let banks own my newer cars anyway… At least I own the old ones. ---
**Author:** ![KuntryQuestTSi](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/kuntryquesttsi/32/5010_2.png) [@KuntryQuestTSi](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/KuntryQuestTSi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340/20 "2015-05-23T17:20:08Z")
How will they apply this to vehicles already sold? [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/gm-says-you-dont-own-your-car-you-just-license-it/272340.md?page=2)