# Honda heads step inside, LS-VTEC advice needed. **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [October 27, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535 "2013-10-27T16:26:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![theblue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/theblue/32/5074_2.png) [@theblue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/theblue)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/21 "2013-10-28T19:27:56Z")
The rules simply say “cylinder head fixed $150” so we are taking that as the entire cylinder head with whatever done to it or in it. We don’t own one yet, so we can buy anything. We will be running 93 octane. Our burn rate is about 10 gallons in 1:40 We have some room for this to get worse, but anything worse than a whole tank in 2 hours can’t happen or it screws our pit stops. Sent from my iPhone 5S using [Tapatalk](http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) ---
**Author:** ![Saxon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@Saxon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Saxon)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/22 "2013-10-29T17:11:13Z")
> [@Discosteak](#): > > Depends on alot of things, The high lobes really arent designed to be engaged for longer than 30-45 seconds at a time. If you use a good oil with zinc additive it will most likely be fine. the most you may experience is some rocker wear that requires the valves to be adjusted a little more often. > I use Penn grade 1 because of the high zinc content. Its expensive but it keeps the cams and rockers from wearing. > > Is this for LeMons racing? I’m wondering where you got that information from. You can be in Vtec all day long with no problems at all, do you think a gsr track car is ever below 4400rpm? ---
**Author:** ![Discosteak](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/discosteak/32/6252_2.png) [@Discosteak](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Discosteak)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/23 "2013-10-29T19:53:06Z")
> [@Saxon](#): > > I’m wondering where you got that information from. You cancamshafts be in Vtec all day long with no problems at all, do you think a gsr track car is ever below 4400rpm? Experience? How many racetracks do you know of that keep the throttle on the floor for longer than 45 seconds? The valvetrain is a wear item and is really only designed to be used for 2 seasons with high lift/duration camshafts. Locking the valvetrain to run on the higher lift side of the cam will only speed up the wear on the cams, rockers, and retainers. I was a Honda technician for a very long time. I pulled apart an Odyssey v6 once that had a dead miss on one cylinder. Turns out the rocker pin inside the rocker arm had gotten stuck and ridden the Vtec lobe on the cam until it completely wiped the lobe to the point that the valves no longer opened. Engine oil without Zinc and ZDDP(removed from most modern oils to keep the catalytic converter and other emissions equipment from destroying its self) aren’t designed to handle the loads that a high lift high duration camshaft puts on the valvetrain for long periods of time. Which would be why a “racecar” uses race oil, that contains zinc and phosphorus(ZDDP). ![http://i25.tinypic.com/t7ejdf.jpg](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/3X/2/f/2f0984456f8dd47c5beb0a68b72c3d6cf62ef2aa.jpeg) ![http://i31.tinypic.com/iyfr0k.jpg](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/3X/2/f/2f0984456f8dd47c5beb0a68b72c3d6cf62ef2aa.jpeg) ![http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/attachments/f25/147206d1275609630-another-wiped-cam-but-bit-different-cam-wear.jpg](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/3X/6/1/616e5f1b854c558102afdaa82a8c0308e6df3f90.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Saxon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@Saxon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Saxon)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/24 "2013-10-30T16:16:17Z")
I can verify that these motors can be locked into VTEC all the time with no issues what so ever, hell a lot of k series guys do that for daily drivers. Ive been part if a dirt track team where it’s at 6000+ rpm for hours at a time with no abnormal wear (cams are same material throughout, as well as the rockers) I do agree that the oil is recommended ---
**Author:** ![Discosteak](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/discosteak/32/6252_2.png) [@Discosteak](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Discosteak)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/25 "2013-10-30T17:27:29Z")
> [@Saxon](#): > > I can verify that these motors can be locked into VTEC all the time with no issues what so ever, hell a lot of k series guys do that for daily drivers. Ive been part if a dirt track team where it’s at 6000+ rpm for hours at a time with no abnormal wear (cams are same material throughout, as well as the rockers) > > I do agree that the oil is recommended Doing it on a daily driver is just stupid. All it will do is sacrifice horsepower torque and gas mileage below 5000 rpms. And again valvetrain wear depends largely on the cams. Factory cams will most likely be fine but cams like skunk2 pro1’s REQUIRE you to use oil with zinc and phosphorus or it will void the warranty on your camshafts. The ramp rate, lift and duration of the cams is too much for the valvetrain (and camshaft) to handle without the zinc and phosphorus in the lubricant. ---
**Author:** ![theblue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/theblue/32/5074_2.png) [@theblue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/theblue)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/26 "2013-10-30T17:31:00Z")
So can we get to a consensus on which cams I would run, what head work will give me best gains? Sent from my iPhone 5S using [Tapatalk](http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) ---
**Author:** ![Discosteak](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/discosteak/32/6252_2.png) [@Discosteak](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Discosteak)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/27 "2013-10-30T18:38:15Z")
> [@theblue](#): > > So can we get to a consensus on which cams I would run, what head work will give me best gains? > > Sent from my iPhone 5S using [Tapatalk](http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) If your leaving the bottom end stock I wouldnt do anything bigger than ctr’s or 2000-2001 Itr cams. plus with a smaller cam you can go to beehive strings which are much lighter. ---
**Author:** ![theblue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/theblue/32/5074_2.png) [@theblue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/theblue)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/28 "2013-10-30T18:39:16Z")
wtf is a beehive string? Lol Also, can anybody give input as to machining on the head? Sent from my iPhone 5S using [Tapatalk](http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) ---
**Author:** ![Saxon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@Saxon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Saxon)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/29 "2013-10-30T19:31:30Z")
You can mill the head a little bit to bump the compression, just clean up the casing marks and a good valve job should be fine for an itr cam, itr intake manifold if possible - - - Updated - - - > [@Discosteak](#): > > Doing it on a daily driver is just stupid. All it will do is sacrifice horsepower torque and gas mileage below 5000 rpms. And again valvetrain wear depends largely on the cams. Factory cams will most likely be fine but cams like skunk2 pro1’s REQUIRE you to use oil with zinc and phosphorus or it will void the warranty on your camshafts. The ramp rate, lift and duration of the cams is too much for the valvetrain (and camshaft) to handle without the zinc and phosphorus in the lubricant. People use the k20a2 rockers locked in an a3 head for the power and have no problems down low…we aren’t talking about had mileage we are talking about performance ---
**Author:** ![Discosteak](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/discosteak/32/6252_2.png) [@Discosteak](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Discosteak)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/30 "2013-10-30T20:02:01Z")
> [@theblue](#): > > wtf is a beehive string? Lol > > Also, can anybody give input as to machining on the head? > > Sent from my iPhone 5S using [Tapatalk](http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) I meant beehive springs. They are a progressive valvespring designed for cams that arent very aggressive. They allow you to run a single valvespring instead of dual springs like the factory. [http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ferrea-beehive-valvesprings-ti-retainers-b18-b18c-b18c1-b18c5-1737.html](http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ferrea-beehive-valvesprings-ti-retainers-b18-b18c-b18c1-b18c5-1737.html) ---
**Author:** ![theblue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/theblue/32/5074_2.png) [@theblue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/theblue)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/31 "2013-10-31T13:26:51Z")
those look great, but that’s a lot of $$$. So I’m reading lots on B16 head vs. B18 head. Stock for Stock it looks like the B18 GSR is the better choice, but a B16 is a type R head that’s not machined. So I’m wondering which is better for my needs if both are machined. and I still have no idea which will be the best cam setup for this. ---
**Author:** ![Saxon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@Saxon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Saxon)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/32 "2013-10-31T17:02:23Z")
are you allowed aftermarket intake manifold? if yes pick the gsr head as the combustion chamber is better. if you have to have a stock intake manifold then go with the b16/17/type r head and use a ported ITR manifold. for reliability i would say the 00 itr cams would be the best bet, id hate to put an aftermarket cam in and have it wear incorrectly or even snap. just make sure you use dual valve springs on the intake and exhaust side ---
**Author:** ![theblue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/theblue/32/5074_2.png) [@theblue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/theblue)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/33 "2013-10-31T17:05:26Z")
No. Picture a 100% stock LS car with unlimited headwork and ECU tuning + no cat + catback. (So a stock LS manfold, maybe cleaned up by hand, if they see anything was done on a machine we’re screwed. Sent from my iPhone 5S using [Tapatalk](http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) ---
**Author:** ![Saxon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@Saxon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Saxon)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/34 "2013-10-31T18:20:49Z")
Ls manifold will not fit on either had, itr looks very similar though ---
**Author:** ![theblue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/theblue/32/5074_2.png) [@theblue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/theblue)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/35 "2013-10-31T18:22:54Z")
Really, and can’t even be adapted? This might prevent the VTEC head at all. Can I machine the LS head and put aggressive non VTEC cams into without specing custom cams? If we have a good finish then I know some honda head would call us on the itr manifold Sent from my iPhone 5S using [Tapatalk](http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) ---
**Author:** ![deebo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/deebo/32/5218_2.png) [@deebo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/deebo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/36 "2013-11-01T15:31:09Z")
Whole new ball game going from a vtec head to a stock LS head Lol. You’re losing 1000-1500 Rpms and probably 20hp Although they aren’t the greatest a lot of ppl run , I believe Brian crower 404 cams Those ferrera springs and retainers are pretty much the best out there. But you can get Brian crower , supertech , buddy club, skunk2 whatever Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - [now Free](http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) ---
**Author:** ![Discosteak](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/discosteak/32/6252_2.png) [@Discosteak](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Discosteak)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/37 "2013-11-01T16:46:31Z")
> [@deebo](#): > > Whole new ball game going from a vtec head to a stock LS head Lol. You’re losing 1000-1500 Rpms and probably 20hp > > Although they aren’t the greatest a lot of ppl run , I believe Brian crower 404 cams > > Those ferrera springs and retainers are pretty much the best out there. But you can get Brian crower , supertech , buddy club, skunk2 whatever > > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - [now Free](http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1) Yep Crower 404’s are the way to go if you want to keep the LS head. Unfortunately no matter what you do to the LS head it will never match the flow of the Vtec head. ---
**Author:** ![theblue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/theblue/32/5074_2.png) [@theblue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/theblue)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 7:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535/38 "2013-11-02T07:31:48Z")
so we had a team meeting last night. It’s me, a honda noob, 3 honda certified techs who have built all kinds of things, and other team members. they are convinced we can do a B16 head and make the stock LS intake manifold work. we’ll go with type-r cams which one of them already has and we’ll make the oil line work and run it normally. I’m hoping with as ugly as things will be that we can get 160whp at least. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/honda-heads-step-inside-ls-vtec-advice-needed/233535.md?page=1)