# I have an experiment for anyone who didn't think the plane will take off **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic\ **Created:** [February 15, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217 "2006-02-15T19:21:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Tevenor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@Tevenor](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Tevenor)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/181 "2006-04-07T11:23:53Z")
> [@FuzzyFish](#): > > Not really, seeing as the question only deals with the speed of the conveyor (Speed of conveyor = speed of plane). In the example I posted the speed of the conveyor \> speed of the plane and it still can take off. You can see at the beginning that the conveyor does impart force on the plane via the wheels but even then once forward thrust is placed it still overcomes what force there is as it’s not enough to stop the plane from rolling. That’s what I am saying. The question can be interpereted differently and depending on your interpretation the conveyor either can or can’t impart a force to counteract the acceleration of the plane. Depending on this interpretation, your model is correct or incorrect. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![wetwork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7cd45c/32.png) [@wetwork](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/wetwork)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/182 "2006-04-07T11:25:42Z")
and just because you put roller skates on and get on a treadmill with a rocket pack strapped to your back proves nothing either. you are not a plane so using that example is as much of a waste as the matchbox car. the point is. when you have the plane match the speed the opposite direction as the treadmill you are then going even… which means your MATCHING the speed nothing else. that speed that your using to match the treadmill is coming from the thrust! in order to take off and createair to flow you need to then break the match point and go forward. how does this not make sense? in order to fly, you need the air to pass over/under the wing to create lift if your merely matching the speed your not doing anything but wasting fuel ---
**Author:** ![Willybeen](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/willybeen/32/7351_2.png) [@Willybeen](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Willybeen)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/183 "2006-04-07T11:27:22Z")
holy fuck… 11 people reading this thread… i hadnt read it till now… HOT TOPIC FO SHO ---
**Author:** ![66impalass](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/66impalass/32/7429_2.png) [@66impalass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/66impalass)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/184 "2006-04-07T11:27:45Z")
BOURNULLI’S PRINCIPLE DOES NOT CREATE ENOUGH LIFT TO MAKE A PLAIN TAKE OFF NEWTONS SECOND LAW DOES ok now that I feel better about that, and the boeing guy is really make me question his position there since he actually stated this. It is not that hard of a principle to understand, it does create lift but no where near enough to make a plain take off. Shit a pipe cub with zero angle of attack would need to be going near 250mph to take off. ps it will take off, anyone that has taking a fluids, thermo fluids and a dynamics class will be able to see this ---
**Author:** ![wetwork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7cd45c/32.png) [@wetwork](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/wetwork)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:28am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/185 "2006-04-07T11:28:18Z")
ok so here is a question for all of you then… if the treadmill was moving the same way would you get lift? if so explain why. ---
**Author:** ![tpgsr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tpgsr/32/7374_2.png) [@tpgsr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/tpgsr)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/186 "2006-04-07T11:30:17Z")
> [@wetwork](#): > > i have a question how is this relevant to what we are talking about. apparently you did not see the warning when the thread was reopened… > > and who are you to form a negative opinion about people who are debating… so because i do not agree with you that makes me less then you? that makes you think less of me? > > who are you to make such a statement. > until you can prove this theory right or until you have something of value to add instead of negativity i would appriciate you keep your two cents out. > > everyone here is thinking about different reasons why this will or will not work. > > since when is negativity based on someone elses thoughts to be brought up? > > how would you do in a debate? not very well if you think less of the other guy because he disagrees with you statement. Hi noob ummm, my .02 was already added, and it is not like we are debating something like who should be president. We are talking about something that has a right answer and a wrong answer. YOU being the aerospace engineer and having the wrong answer allows me to form opinions, and to therefore post and express them. As far as to how i would do in a debate? I have been in many formal debates and won more than i have lost. This however is not a formal debate, more like people posting on the internet. And well, opinions are like assholes everyone has one. Oh, and i did help to prove the “theory” search out my posts in this thread, they started productive, then the stupidity got thicker! hey Lafengas help me out here, i dont know what to tell this guy. 👋 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/187 "2006-04-07T11:30:42Z")
> [@wetwork](#): > > and just because you put roller skates on and get on a treadmill with a rocket pack strapped to your back proves nothing either. you are not a plane so using that example is as much of a waste as the matchbox car. > > the point is. when you have the plane match the speed the opposite direction as the treadmill you are then going even… which means your MATCHING the speed nothing else. that speed that your using to match the treadmill is coming from the thrust! > > in order to take off and createair to flow you need to then break the match point and go forward. > > how does this not make sense? > > in order to fly, you need the air to pass over/under the wing to create lift > if your merely matching the speed your not doing anything but wasting fuel EXACTLY… the question is poorly worded. If it’s assumed that the plane will eventually surpass the belts speed, than it’s entirely true. If not, then it plan old wont work. (unless it’s a harrier jet :P) ---
**Author:** ![Daddie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/daddie/32/7621_2.png) [@Daddie](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Daddie)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/188 "2006-04-07T11:32:05Z")
ok people, please stop getting all antsy in pantsy ---
**Author:** ![HotRodKid](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/hotrodkid/32/7609_2.png) [@HotRodKid](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/HotRodKid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/189 "2006-04-07T11:32:29Z")
> [@wetwork](#): > > ok so here is a question for all of you then… > > if the treadmill was moving the same way would you get lift? > > if so explain why. if you take the original question, and reverse the direction of the runway, it will SLIGHTLY help push the plane forward (using the friction of the wheels) to help the plane take off faster the only thing the runway does in the original example is slightly SLOW the plane down, it doesnt stop the plane from flying ---
**Author:** ![tpgsr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tpgsr/32/7374_2.png) [@tpgsr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/tpgsr)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/190 "2006-04-07T11:32:45Z")
> [@wetwork](#): > > ok so here is a question for all of you then… > > if the treadmill was moving the same way would you get lift? > > if so explain why. The treadmill is irrelevant! it always has been it always will be!!! The wheel are not a propulsion device on the plane, they are FREE ROTATING MASS. they could spin in any direction at 11tybillion RPM and once the thrusters kick in it will fire forward ---
**Author:** ![BluBalls](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bluballs/32/7212_2.png) [@BluBalls](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BluBalls)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/191 "2006-04-07T11:32:49Z")
nothing is holding the plane down. ---
**Author:** ![wetwork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7cd45c/32.png) [@wetwork](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/wetwork)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/192 "2006-04-07T11:33:09Z")
> [@SC\_Steve](#): > > EXACTLY… the question is poorly worded. If it’s assumed that the plane will eventually surpass the belts speed, than it’s entirely true. If not, then it plan old wont work. (unless it’s a harrier jet :P) thats what i have been trying to say but apparently i am wrong and im whatever tpgsr thinks of me cause he is smarter then i am…i guess i just do it for a living but im wrong. so what do i know. maybe i should just quit and and work on treadmills all day… ---
**Author:** ![wetwork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7cd45c/32.png) [@wetwork](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/wetwork)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/193 "2006-04-07T11:34:24Z")
> [@tpgsr](#): > > The treadmill is irrelevant! it always has been it always will be!!! The wheel are not a propulsion device on the plane, they are FREE ROTATING MASS. they could spin in any direction at 11tybillion RPM and once the thrusters kick in it will fire forward if they are free rotating then how does it match the speed of the treadmill without the help of the thursters wiseguy? oh thats right… it can’t the wheels need the help of the thrusters to move them forward or else it does not work. you pushing the thruster forward to matc the belt speed… the wheels won’t MOVE FREELY ON THEIR OWN TO MATCH THIS SPEED… altho the wheels are not powered by the thrusters they still need the thrusters to move them forward. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:35am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/194 "2006-04-07T11:35:52Z")
> [@BluBalls](#): > > nothing is holding the plane down. gravity 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fry](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fry/32/7284_2.png) [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/195 "2006-04-07T11:38:59Z")
> [@wetwork](#): > > and just because you put roller skates on and get on a treadmill with a rocket pack strapped to your back proves nothing either. you are not a plane so using that example is as much of a waste as the matchbox car. Ever heard of a proof-of-concept test? I.E. you design an experiment to simulate the basic physics of a concept. Assuming no frictional loss at the wheels axles, the treadmill does not affect the motion of the plane. The motion of the plane is completely independent of the motion of the ground underneath it. I am never flying on another Boeing plane. ---
**Author:** ![HotRodKid](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/hotrodkid/32/7609_2.png) [@HotRodKid](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/HotRodKid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/196 "2006-04-07T11:41:03Z")
> [@wetwork](#): > > if they are free rotating then how does it match the speed of the treadmill without the help of the thursters wiseguy? > > oh thats right… it can’t the wheels need the help of the thrusters to move them forward or else it does not work. > > you pushing the thruster forward to matc the belt speed… the wheels won’t MOVE FREELY ON THEIR OWN TO MATCH THIS SPEED… > > altho the wheels are not powered by the thrusters they still need the thrusters to move them forward. dude, if the plane moves forward @ 10mph in relation to the face of the earth, the runway will move backwards at the same speed in rel;ation to the face of the earth … its that simple the wheels are just chillin between the plane and the runway… and in the process they spin at 20mph because 10mph that way ----\>\>\> + 10 mph \<— that way = 20 mph total ---
**Author:** ![wetwork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7cd45c/32.png) [@wetwork](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/wetwork)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/197 "2006-04-07T11:42:31Z")
> [@BikerFry](#): > > Ever heard of a proof-of-concept test? I.E. you design an experiment to simulate the basic physics of a concept. > > Assuming no frictional loss at the wheels axles, the treadmill does not affect the motion of the plane. The motion of the plane is completely independent of the motion of the ground underneath it. > > I am never flying on another Boeing plane. last comment was uncalled for because you do not agree with me…thanks for being an E-dick… but yes assuming such was true then yes your right. but like i sad everyone is trying to answer a different questionthen the original posted. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/198 "2006-04-07T11:42:41Z")
> [@BikerFry](#): > > Ever heard of a proof-of-concept test? I.E. you design an experiment to simulate the basic physics of a concept. > > Assuming no frictional loss at the wheels axles, the treadmill does not affect the motion of the plane. The motion of the plane is completely independent of the motion of the ground underneath it. > > I am never flying on another Boeing plane. while that is true… again, the question is very poorly worded. Newmans orgional post said that if the belt was able to match the speed of the wheels @ any given speed (aka, adjusts it’s speed accordinly) then it wouldnt work, because even though the plane is able to easily overcome it, the belt would spin faster and it would need even higher wheel RPMS to over come that… and when it does, repeat said process. in a sense… everyone is correct ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/199 "2006-04-07T11:43:25Z")
Ok, I’m done. Those who have the slightest chance of ever getting the right answer already have it, and those who don’t never will. ---
**Author:** ![HotRodKid](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/hotrodkid/32/7609_2.png) [@HotRodKid](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/HotRodKid)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217/200 "2006-04-07T11:44:50Z")
oh shit, heres an example for you you hop in your cesna planning to fly to your island off the florida coast … you taxi out to the runway facing east … as you taxi out and start to build speed, a MASSIVE meteor plows into inda in a eastward direction … and it accelerates how fast the eart is spinning … effectivly moving the runway in the opposite direction underneith you … does your plane still take off ? [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/i-have-an-experiment-for-anyone-who-didnt-think-the-plane-will-take-off/8217.md?page=11)