# If we get healthcare reform it's good to know they didn't have to vote on it **URL:** \ **Category:** PolitiSUCK\ **Created:** [March 16, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609 "2010-03-16T13:33:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/1 "2010-03-16T13:33:10Z")
> **[Republicans Battle Pelosi Over Plan to Pass Health Bill Without Traditional Vote](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/16/pelosi-plan-pass-health-care-traditional-vote-riles-critics.html)** > > Republicans and Democrats are locked in an unusual battle over how to vote on the health care reform package as House Republicans try to block Speaker Nancy Pelosi from using a legislative trick that would allow rank-and-file Democrats to vote for... And no, it’s not just Fox spin [http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/16/house.health.care/index.html?hpt=T2](http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/16/house.health.care/index.html?hpt=T2) I don’t know how any Democrat could honestly say this is a good way to pass reform that creates a new government program costing 1/6th of our entire budget. ---
**Author:** ![klug](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/klug/32/5222_2.png) [@klug](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/klug)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/2 "2010-03-16T13:45:02Z")
:worf: I don’t know what to say. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/3 "2010-03-16T13:45:22Z")
Pelosi should “self execute” herself. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/4 "2010-03-16T13:46:33Z")
> [@Blue Eyed Devil](#): > > Pelosi should “self execute” herself. I think it’s quickly getting to the point where someone is going to take a shot at her. You can only lay arrogance on that thick for so long before someone snaps. ---
**Author:** ![glitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/0ea827/32.png) [@glitch](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/glitch)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/5 "2010-03-16T13:46:39Z")
dayyyy terrkkk errr jerrrbbbssss ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/6 "2010-03-16T13:50:54Z")
I guess Obama is going to sign it Saturday and leave the country (go to Europe). Smart man. ---
**Author:** ![97\_B18b1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/9/cdc98d/32.png) [@97\_B18b1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/97_B18b1)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/7 "2010-03-16T14:13:01Z")
pelosi is the lowest of the low when it comes to scumbag politicians ---
**Author:** ![Fry](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fry/32/7284_2.png) [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/8 "2010-03-16T14:31:20Z")
> [@JayS"](#): > > I don’t know how any Democrat could honestly say this is a good way to pass reform that creates a new government program costing 1/6th of our entire budget. The same way that Republicans honestly say it’s a good way to pass reform: > Since 1980, reconciliation has been used nine times when Republicans controlled both the House and the Senate, six times when Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate, one time when the Democrats controlled the Senate and the Republicans the House, and seven times when the Republicans controlled the Senate and the Democrats controlled the House. :awdrifter: Oh, and it’s not going to cost 1/6th of our entire budget. Here’s what the Congressional Budget Office has to say about it: > According to CBO’s and JCT’s assessment, enacting H.R. 3200 would result in a net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010–2019 period. Net $239 billion over ten years. If you were right it would cost us $6,000 billion (3700/6\*10) for the next ten years. Good thing you’re wrong huh?! ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/9 "2010-03-16T14:35:41Z")
:word: The tax cuts for the rich that started our budget deficit were passed the same way. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/10 "2010-03-16T14:44:17Z")
> [@Fry](#): > > The same way that Republicans honestly say it’s a good way to pass reform: > > :awdrifter: > > Oh, and it’s not going to cost 1/6th of our entire budget. Here’s what the Congressional Budget Office has to say about it: > > Net $239 billion over ten years. If you were right it would cost us $6,000 billion (3700/6\*10) for the next ten years. Good thing you’re wrong huh?! This isn’t reconciliation, with that you still have to VOTE and attach your name to it. And yes, this “non voting” gimmick has been used before but never for something as sweeping as the health care bill. I was wrong about our budget though. It’s only 3.8 trillion not 6 trillion. 6 trillion was the projected debt. So a trillion dollar health care plan. Our budget is 3.8 trillion. That’s about 1/4th. You can take your CBO numbers and stuff them where ever you want for all I care. The same claims were made about how medicare wouldn’t become a huge cost. > **[Obama releases $1 trillion health care bill](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/22/obama-lays-health-cards-table/)** > > UPDATED: The White House on Monday released a nearly $1 trillion health care overhaul bill that will block extreme insurance premium increases in a new, likely last attempt to revive the president’s top reform priority on Capitol Hill. > **[Obama announces US$3.8 trillion 2011 budget plan for US - Wikinews, the free...](https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Obama_announces_US$3.8_trillion_2011_budget_plan_for_US)** ---
**Author:** ![Avatar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/avatar/32/5076_2.png) [@Avatar](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/11 "2010-03-16T14:53:38Z")
At this point it is do or die for Congress. They have to pass something even if it is not ideal. They know it and the president knows it. aaand the beauty of our system is that the legislation passed today is not carved in stone. It can be fine tuned as time progresses. ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/12 "2010-03-16T15:25:30Z")
Or we can “start over” AKA kill it forever and let the people be killed off by their insurance companies. A good way to pass reform is the way that doesn’t allow Republicans to obstruct it. Because they will, no matter what is in the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/13 "2010-03-16T15:39:15Z")
Does Pelosi have a gun to her head? She wants to do it this way because congressmen don’t want to vote for it? Does she even listen to what she says? Does she know this is The USA and not some fascist country? This is the biggest WTF of my lifetime. Is this what you Dems voted for? ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/14 "2010-03-16T15:46:30Z")
It is cause the House doesn’t trust the Senate to pass all of their changes because the Republicans have turned it into such a clusterfuck, and the Congressmen won’t vote for the Senate bill as it stands. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/15 "2010-03-16T15:57:51Z")
This may be the extinction of the Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Joe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joe/32/7219_2.png) [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/16 "2010-03-16T16:12:32Z")
:lol: Not passing it could be the extinction of the Democrat, because no one will be able to afford health care in another few years except rich Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/17 "2010-03-16T16:32:46Z")
Well that _is_ the plan.😉 They are also tying student loans to this bill?!? What percentage of the economy is that? ---
**Author:** ![Avatar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/avatar/32/5076_2.png) [@Avatar](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/18 "2010-03-16T16:53:41Z")
> [@Blue Eyed Devil](#): > > Well that _is_ the plan.😉 > > They are also tying student loans to this bill?!? What percentage of the economy is that? They’re doing that to help it pass. This way those that are opposed to it can still vote on it and at least have something to bring home to constituents. This is how politics works. The Pell Grant bill is a good thing btw. It will save the government money. ---
**Author:** ![Fry](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fry/32/7284_2.png) [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/19 "2010-03-16T17:51:38Z")
There are valid arguments against this bill. Cost is not one of them. It’s a moot point. We spend a ton on healthcare now, we will continue to spend on healthcare. Most people get what they need now, and will continue to in the future. If you want to reduce costs you do three things, none of which are in this bill: 1. Single payer - 20% of healthcare costs are administrative. aka figuring out who the fuck participates in what and who is covered by who 2. tort reform - Doctors get sued all the damn time by ambulance chasers and thus have to cover their asses, which costs $$$ 3. Ditch the farm bill - Make us healthier. The farm bill made us all fat and watered all of the nutrients out of our food. Of course the most important argument against this bill is one that I’m sure 97b18b1 understands but doesn’t waste his time on here: Where does our government get the right to impose a negative tax? Tax us for not choosing to buy healthcare? So much for free will. They probably get the right from the same place they get the right to subpoena baseball players for taking steroids or Toyota for screwing up a design: From the “nobody’s stopping us” ammendment. This bill isn’t going to accomplish a whole hell of a lot. It’s not going to make healthcare much better, but it’s also not going to cost us much. LOL @ the end of democrats. Or the end of republicans. They’re the fundamentally the same party at this point, they just choose to identify with superficially different ambitions. All of which oppose anything sustainable. The supreme court opening up elections for purchase by corporations is just icing on the bondage cake. Where did I leave that libertarian party registration card? The millenial generation may save this country from the ambition-first liberty-second gen-x’ers and baby boomers. They have to. ---
**Author:** ![Avatar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/avatar/32/5076_2.png) [@Avatar](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609/20 "2010-03-16T19:52:44Z")
> [@Fry](#): > > They’re the fundamentally the same party at this point, they just choose to identify with superficially different ambitions. > **[Duverger's law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law)** > > In political science, Duverger's law (/ˈduvərʒeɪ/ DOO-vər-zhay) refers to the observation that political systems with only one winner that fail the sincere favorite criterion typically result in two-party rule. By contrast, systems that do not encourage lesser-evil voting or provide for proportional representation usually have more representation of minor parties in government. > A two-party system is most common under plurality voting. Voters typically cast one vote per race. Maurice Duverger arg... [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/if-we-get-healthcare-reform-its-good-to-know-they-didnt-have-to-vote-on-it/151609.md?page=2)