# It's ILLEGAL to rip music to a PC, even if its not shared. **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic\ **Created:** [December 31, 2007, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016 "2007-12-31T08:35:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/1 "2007-12-31T08:35:05Z")
…the industry maintains that it **is illegal for someone who has _legally_ purchased a CD to transfer that music** into his computer. This could get interesting. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/28/AR2007122800693.html?hpid=topnews](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/28/AR2007122800693.html?hpid=topnews) > Washington Post Staff Writer > Sunday, December 30, 2007; Page M05 > > …Now, in an unusual case in which an Arizona recipient of an RIAA letter has fought back in court rather than write a check to avoid hefty legal fees, the industry is taking its argument against music sharing one step further: In legal documents in its federal case against Jeffrey Howell, a Scottsdale, Ariz., man who kept a collection of about 2,000 music recordings on his personal computer, **the industry maintains that it is illegal for someone who has _legally_ purchased a CD to transfer that music into his computer**. > > The industry’s lawyer in the case, Ira Schwartz, argues in a brief filed earlier this month that the MP3 files Howell **made on his computer from legally bought CDs are “unauthorized copies”** of copyrighted recordings. > > “I couldn’t believe it when I read that,” says Ray Beckerman, a New York lawyer who represents six clients who have been sued by the RIAA. “The basic principle in the law is that you have to distribute actual physical copies to be guilty of violating copyright. But recently, **the industry has been going around saying that even a personal copy on your computer is a violation.”** > > … > > But lawyers for consumers point to a series of court rulings over the last few decades **that found no violation of copyright law in the use of VCRs and other devices to time-shift TV programs; that is, to make personal copies for the purpose of making portable a legally obtained recording**. ---
**Author:** ![RobHimself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e480ec/32.png) [@RobHimself](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RobHimself)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/2 "2007-12-31T08:44:59Z")
thus eliminating the ablitity to use an mp3 player? ---
**Author:** ![Geehee](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/geehee/32/7238_2.png) [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:46am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/3 "2007-12-31T08:46:53Z")
the industry would be smart to welcome the use of digital music. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/4 "2007-12-31T08:50:25Z")
> [@RobHimself](#): > > thus eliminating the ablitity to use an mp3 player? Yes. > [@evolve](#): > > the industry would be smart to welcome the use of digital music. Captain obv? 😛 But yea, the article goes onto mention how the industry needs to let go of their decaying business model and step up to the plate as far as digital age et al. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/5 "2007-12-31T08:52:28Z")
Thats a great point Rob, basically the industry wants everyone to go back to Sony CD Walkmans… lol. Talk about archaic ---
**Author:** ![RobHimself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e480ec/32.png) [@RobHimself](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RobHimself)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/6 "2007-12-31T08:52:57Z")
> [@Nikuk](#): > > Yes. > Captain obv? 😛 > > But yea, the article goes onto mention how the industry needs to let go of their decaying business model and step up to the plate as far as digital age et al. Such a great idea! eliminate the shrinking numbers of people that still buy cds and force t hem into itunes/zune marketplace/ stealing music > [@Nikuk](#): > > Thats a great point Rob, basically the industry wants everyone to go back to Sony CD Walkmans… lol. > > Talk about archaic they can go fuck themselves if they think im using any sony product ever again. I would buy an ipod before that shit. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/7 "2007-12-31T08:55:44Z")
> [@RobHimself](#): > > Such a great idea! eliminate the shrinking numbers of people that still buy cds and force t hem into itunes/zune marketplace/ stealing music Hell, someone should get the conservationist & tree huggers in on this… Imagine how much less petrol would be used, and how much less waste there’d be without 100s of millions of CDs produced every year. Actually, i’d love to see someone countersue the RIAA on the grounds that they are promoting global warming… :lol: ---
**Author:** ![RobHimself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e480ec/32.png) [@RobHimself](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RobHimself)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/8 "2007-12-31T08:57:50Z")
> [@Nikuk](#): > > Hell, someone should get the conservationist & tree huggers in on this… > > Imagine how much less petrol would be used, and how much less waste there’d be without 100s of millions of CDs produced every year. > > Actually, i’d love to see someone countersue the RIAA on the grounds that they are promoting global warming… :lol: LOL you said “petrol” fucking hilarious! but yeah im sure you can get bus loads of those apple sack rider mos to protest. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/9 "2007-12-31T08:59:10Z")
> [@RobHimself](#): > > apple sack rider mos to protest. don’t you have a white zune? ---
**Author:** ![micah](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/micah/32/7257_2.png) [@micah](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/micah)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/10 "2007-12-31T08:59:12Z")
so will the new windows media player update take out the “RIP” option ahmmm ---
**Author:** ![Matt\_Danger](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/matt_danger/32/4981_2.png) [@Matt\_Danger](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Matt_Danger)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/11 "2007-12-31T08:59:48Z")
An organization that refuses to update its business model to follow consumer trends and demand is doomed. I don’t understand how they can’t realize this. ---
**Author:** ![cky89](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cky89/32/4945_2.png) [@cky89](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cky89)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:03am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/12 "2007-12-31T09:03:04Z")
> [@RobHimself](#): > > thus eliminating the ablitity to use an mp3 player? NOT true. ---
**Author:** ![RobHimself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e480ec/32.png) [@RobHimself](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RobHimself)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/13 "2007-12-31T09:13:57Z")
> [@Nikuk](#): > > don’t you have a white zune? DIAF the price could not be beat. besides with the exception of ipod touch zune\>ipod > [@cky89](#): > > NOT true. then how else are you going to put your cds onto an mp3 player? stick your finger on each of them and say “na-nu na-nu”? ---
**Author:** ![HotRodKid](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/hotrodkid/32/7609_2.png) [@HotRodKid](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/HotRodKid)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/14 "2007-12-31T09:17:30Z")
last CD purchased: 1996 Bite me RIAA ---
**Author:** ![micah](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/micah/32/7257_2.png) [@micah](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/micah)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/15 "2007-12-31T09:18:08Z")
> [@RobHimself](#): > > DIAF the price could not be beat. besides with the exception of ipod touch zune\>ipod > > then how else are you going to put your cds onto an mp3 player? stick your finger on each of them and say “na-nu na-nu”? i think cky means buying itunes and putting them onto an mp3 player after legally purchased online ---
**Author:** ![soopa7fly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@soopa7fly](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/soopa7fly)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/16 "2007-12-31T09:23:54Z")
the problem with VCR’s is that recording from TV is time shifting. i dont think they could justify ripping a CD as time shifting but im sure they will figure out a way to squeeze it into fair use. ---
**Author:** ![cky89](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cky89/32/4945_2.png) [@cky89](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cky89)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:26am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/17 "2007-12-31T09:26:30Z")
> [@MicaH](#): > > i think cky means buying itunes and putting them onto an mp3 player after legally purchased online You hit it right on the head 🙂 Although it’s stupid IMO. It’s the only “legal way” Apple did it to back themselves up on that one as a loophole if this was ever discovered, which it not seems to have been. If this ever were to go somewhere apple’s sales would be hurting a lot less than other companies, but I doubt anything will become of this whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![soopa7fly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@soopa7fly](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/soopa7fly)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/18 "2007-12-31T09:27:47Z")
Although it is legal in the United States to make backup copies of software, the legality of ripping music for personal use without the permission of the copyright holder is controversial. Historically, copying media for personal use was established to be Fair Use under U.S. Copyright by the Supreme Court in the Sony Betamax doctrine. On the other hand, the RIAA, which represents many music copyright holders has maintained that copying rights have not been granted to end users and that Fair Use does not apply.[1] Depending on the outcome of the trial including the RIAA v. Jammie Thomas, even ripping a cd without permission from the owner of the copyright, even for personal use may be illegal. [2] However, in oral arguments before the Supreme Court in MGM Studios, Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd., Don Verrilli, representing MGM stated: ``` "And let me clarify something I think is unclear from the amicus briefs. The record companies, my clients, have said, for some time now, and it's been on their Website for some time now, that it's perfectly lawful to take a CD that you've purchased, upload it onto your computer, put it onto your iPod. There is a very, very significant lawful commercial use for that device, going forward." ``` ---
**Author:** ![RobHimself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e480ec/32.png) [@RobHimself](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RobHimself)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/19 "2007-12-31T09:34:39Z")
> [@MicaH](#): > > i think cky means buying itunes and putting them onto an mp3 player after legally purchased online My comment was about using your cds that were purchased on your mp3 player. and i also made a mork and mindy reference which should be good from a lol from at least awdrifter. ---
**Author:** ![Locutus](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/locutus/32/7574_2.png) [@Locutus](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Locutus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016/20 "2007-12-31T09:38:28Z")
the washington post is wrong… he is accused of d/l music… [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/its-illegal-to-rip-music-to-a-pc-even-if-its-not-shared/41016.md?page=2)