# Jail sentence for selling handgun used in fatal shooting
**URL:** https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180
**Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic
**Created:** [March 9, 2009, 8:10am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180 "2009-03-09T08:10:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:10am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/1 "2009-03-09T08:10:00Z")
[http://www.buffalonews.com/258/story/602055.html](http://www.buffalonews.com/258/story/602055.html)
> State Supreme Court Justice Penny M. Wolfgang told Philips, 27, of Suffolk Avenue, that even though a jury on Dec. 1 found him not guilty of murder charges as an accomplice in the fatal shooting of Kamal Razick, it was “obvious that without the gun there would not have been a loss of life.”
:tif:
I’m having a hard time placing the responsibility of this persons life on the guy who sold the gun. Yes, it seems like he sold it illegally, he should be charged and convicted on that alone.
(edit: see below)
Had this guy not sold a gun, the gangmember would have gotten it somewhere else…
I can see both sides of the argument though.
If someone buys a gun legally, and it is used to kill someone, should that seller have the responsibility of that persons life on them?
edit: I guess I’m :tif: mostly on the judge using it as justification for the sentence. Should what was done with the gun matter in this case?
again though I can see both sides. If it was my family member, I’m sure I would want everyone involved paying time…
---
### Author:  [@fiend540](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fiend540)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/2 "2009-03-09T08:12:47Z")
It’s a slippery slope when they do things like this. As a nation it seems like personal responsibility has gone out the window, nothing is ever one persons fault.
---
### Author:  [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/3 "2009-03-09T08:13:37Z")
> [@fiend540](#):
>
> It’s a slippery slope when they do things like this. As a nation it seems like personal responsibility has gone out the window, nothing is ever one persons fault.
thats what I’m gettin at…
---
### Author:  [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/4 "2009-03-09T08:14:21Z")
I’m with you on the charge him with the illegal sale, but not accessory to murder. Maybe they’re trying to set a precedent to give the gangbanger gun salesmen something to think about? I dunno, this is probably along the lines of the bar being partially responsible if they let a guy leave absolutely hammered and then he kills someone driving home. I believe that’s limited to civil liability though.
---
### Author:  [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/5 "2009-03-09T08:15:18Z")
What the deuce?
Double Jeopardy what?
---
### Author:  [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:17am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/6 "2009-03-09T08:17:19Z")
This is definitely a slippery slope though. It could easily go from illegal gun sale being an accessory, to legal gun sale being an accessory, and before you know it, the hardware store that sells the nutjob a rope that he uses to tie up and hang some broad is liable. I’d like to say that once the transaction is completed, your liability is over and it’s all on them for what they use it for.
---
### Author:  [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/7 "2009-03-09T08:18:03Z")
> At the request of prosecutors Gary W. Hackbush and Sarah A. Filacomo, the judge imposed the stiff prison term on Phillips’ conviction on two felony weapons charges in the case.
:tup:
He was sentenced within the guidelines for two felony weapons charges. He was found not guilty on the murder charge so by law sentencing guidelines for murder cannot be used. Sounds like the system worked to me.
Maybe if we cracked down like this on all existing gun laws you wouldn’t have idiots calling for more gun laws that only hurt responsible gun owners.
---
### Author:  [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:20am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/8 "2009-03-09T08:20:12Z")
> [@JayS](#):
>
> :tup:
>
> He was sentenced within the guidelines for two felony weapons charges. He was found not guilty on the murder charge so by law sentencing guidelines for murder cannot be used. Sounds like the system worked to me.
>
> Maybe if we cracked down like this on all existing gun laws you wouldn’t have idiots calling for more gun laws that only hurt responsible gun owners.
like my edit says (or at least what I was trying to convey) is that if he was convicted of the the illegal sale without tying in the murder, good.
however, from the judges comment, it seems like the murder had something to do with the sentence.
---
### Author:  [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:30am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/9 "2009-03-09T08:30:36Z")
> [@evolve](#):
>
> like my edit says (or at least what I was trying to convey) is that if he was convicted of the the illegal sale without tying in the murder, good.
>
> however, from the judges comment, it seems like the murder had something to do with the sentence.
All kinds of circumstances are allowed to be considered at sentencing. It doesn’t change the fact that you can’t be sentenced to more than the max for what you were convicted. In his case, that’s 2 felony gun charges.
The fact that someone was murdered shortly after his illegal gun sale **should** be a consideration at sentencing. This isn’t some good citizen selling a handgun under the table to a woman who can’t wait the year for NYS to issue a handgun permit because she’s being stalked by an ex. It’s a guy selling a gun to a gang banger.
---
### Author:  [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/10 "2009-03-09T08:33:57Z")
ehhh, I dont know if I can get on board with that.
---
### Author:  [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:45am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/11 "2009-03-09T08:45:05Z")
> [@evolve](#):
>
> ehhh, I dont know if I can get on board with that.
Then don’t sell guns illegally and you’ll be all set. This is NY, a state with some of the strictest gun laws in the country. It’s a big deal when you allow people to skirt those laws by selling guns illegally, even more so when you’re selling them to criminals using them to murder people.
---
### Author:  [@micah](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/micah)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/12 "2009-03-09T08:48:57Z")
That’s why we get drug dealers off the streets… so people using the drugs aren’t messing up lives
i don’t feel bad for the gun seller
stay legal and stay outta trouble
---
### Author:  [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/13 "2009-03-09T08:51:35Z")
> [@JayS](#):
>
> Then don’t sell guns illegally and you’ll be all set. This is NY, a state with some of the strictest gun laws in the country. It’s a big deal when allow people to skirt those laws by selling guns illegally, even more so when you’re selling them to criminals using them to murder people.
I guess I’ll have to try and sell my stockpile legally 😉
---
### Author:  [@Joe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Joe)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/14 "2009-03-09T08:51:41Z")
yeah once i read further that this was only the gun violation, and not the accessory to murder, i don’t feel so bad for him. If stricter gun control is going to limit the access of criminals to weapons, then it has to have the teeth to punish them for breaking it. If it was a slap on the wrist the incentive to wait 13 months and counting for me for a pistol permit just isn’t there.
---
### Author:  [@StrokedZ28](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/StrokedZ28)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/15 "2009-03-09T13:11:22Z")
> [@JayS](#):
>
> :tup:
>
> He was sentenced within the guidelines for two felony weapons charges. He was found not guilty on the murder charge so by law sentencing guidelines for murder cannot be used. Sounds like the system worked to me.
>
> Maybe if we cracked down like this on all existing gun laws you wouldn’t have idiots calling for more gun laws that only hurt responsible gun owners.
x2 He should get the maximum sentence for an illegal sale. There is no evidence that the murder would have been prevented had the sale not taken place.
---
### Author:  [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/16 "2009-03-09T13:12:13Z")
> [@StrokedZ28](#):
>
> There is no evidence that the murder would have been prevented had the sale not taken place.
this contradicts what the judge said during sentencing 100%.
---
### Author:  [@StrokedZ28](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/StrokedZ28)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/17 "2009-03-09T13:15:21Z")
> [@evolve](#):
>
> this contradicts what the judge said during sentencing 100%.
Don’t get me wrong, the way the murder took place was because the guy sold the gun, but that doesn’t mean that the murderer wouldn’t have killed anyway.
Now if the owner of the gun knew that the pistol was to be used for a murder then I think he should be found guilty for murder as well.
---
### Author:  [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/18 "2009-03-09T13:24:22Z")
I can somewhat buy the argument that had the illegal gun sale not taken place the murder wouldn’t have happened.
Sure, people argue he would have just bought the gun from another illegal gun dealer, but then that dealer would be in front of the judge. If there were no illegal gun dealers how would he get the gun? Being a gang member it’s pretty likely he has a criminal record and wouldn’t be allowed to purchase a gun by legal means.
Regardless of what the gun dealer knew I wouldn’t support a murder charge though. As stated by others it’s too slippery a slope. Should a car dealer be responsible for your DWI if they sold you a car but knew you were an alcoholic? The sellers responsibly for how the product is used should end at the sale as long as the laws regarding the sale of that product were followed.
---
### Author:  [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/19 "2009-03-09T13:24:27Z")
> [@StrokedZ28](#):
>
> Don’t get me wrong, the way the murder took place was because the guy sold the gun, but that doesn’t mean that the murderer wouldn’t have killed anyway.
>
> Now if the owner of the gun knew that the pistol was to be used for a murder then I think he should be found guilty for murder as well.
well, duh. but he wasnt found guilty of that. my whole point of this thread was that during sentencing, the judge said it was “obvious that without the gun there would not have been a loss of life.”
This doesnt sit well with me, and if the sentence was influenced by this, I’m :tif: on it.
---
### Author:  [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180/20 "2009-03-09T13:26:41Z")
> [@evolve](#):
>
> This doesnt sit well with me, and if the sentence was influenced by this, I’m :tif: on it.
Bottom line, if you ever run for state supreme court, I’ll be sure to vote for the other guy. 🙂
[Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/jail-sentence-for-selling-handgun-used-in-fatal-shooting/64180.md?page=2)