# Larger front sway increases understeer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Shift518 Automotive\ **Created:** [January 17, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439 "2009-01-17T13:38:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tougethisDB1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tougethisdb1/32/6358_2.png) [@tougethisDB1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/tougethisDB1)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/21 "2009-01-17T20:31:26Z")
spot on ---
**Author:** ![skiboard06](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@skiboard06](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/skiboard06)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/22 "2009-01-17T21:02:38Z")
This thread is never going to end with any reliable information for anyone. It will however ensure more suspension MISinformation is passed along on the interweb. How cars react to swaybar changes are so dependent to specific chassis and then again to variables between identical chassis (spring rate, susp. geometry changes, etc.). This is a conversation better had on a make/model specific forum that has DATA as to what a change will do to traction in different situations. There can be no generic blanket statement made like; “all front engine fwd cars will do X, when front bar is added.” Since nothing productive can come of this, someone please post hot pics of an e36 lifting an inside wheel on track. -your resident wet blanket ---
**Author:** ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/23 "2009-01-17T21:06:28Z")
Actually, there is. Increased front bar increases front total spring rate which, with a constant rear spring rate, will increase understeer. Blanket rule. :up ---
**Author:** ![skiboard06](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@skiboard06](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/skiboard06)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/24 "2009-01-17T21:08:07Z")
![http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/jmitro2000/IMG_3786.jpg](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/jmitro2000/IMG_3786.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![skiboard06](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@skiboard06](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/skiboard06)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/25 "2009-01-17T21:10:45Z")
> [@~\*OFFICIAL Buffalo Sabres Thread\*~](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/official-buffalo-sabres-thread/4208/2361): > > Actually, there is. Increased front bar increases front total spring rate which, with a constant rear spring rate, will increase understeer. Blanket rule. :up negatrex, example: your car ---
**Author:** ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/26 "2009-01-17T21:11:19Z")
^^ Decreased front grip = understeer. E36s need a crazy front bar to transition but it makes the car plow (understeer). Thank our ridiculous Ackerman angle. We tune around it with spring rates. Sick pic btw. ---
**Author:** ![RocketPunch](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rocketpunch/32/6429_2.png) [@RocketPunch](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RocketPunch)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/27 "2009-01-17T21:16:09Z")
[RCVD](http://www.amazon.com/Race-Car-Vehicle-Dynamics-R146/dp/1560915269/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top). Period. Best $100 you will ever spend. ---
**Author:** ![skiboard06](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@skiboard06](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/skiboard06)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/28 "2009-01-17T21:17:08Z")
> [@Weather Outside](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/weather-outside/12621/32): > > ^^ Decreased front grip = understeer. > > E36s need a crazy front bar to transition but it makes the car plow (understeer). Thank our ridiculous Ackerman angle. We tune around it with spring rates. > > Sick pic btw. take off your front bar, or lose a link as we both have. Car then plows, rather than the assumed drastic oversteer. ---
**Author:** ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/29 "2009-01-17T21:21:07Z")
Incorrect, when my link broke in the toe of the boot at Trackmasters in Sept 07 the tail went wild. And then I left it disconnected on the street for a month to play dorifto. More front bar means more spring rate. More spring rate in general means less grip. Quicker weight transfer (which is why the E36 needs it to override the Ackerman angle on slow, sharp corners) is improved which is why it feels like less understeer on sharp corner entry, but as soon as you go back to gas, the car will plow. Then we add rear spring rate to counteract it (more oversteer) for a compromise. Disconnect your bar and go for a spin, it’ll be interesting. Everyone Google suspension tuning. ---
**Author:** ![skiboard06](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@skiboard06](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/skiboard06)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/30 "2009-01-17T21:23:35Z")
done it for ~ .5 days at CMP. Proceeded to overdrive front tires and makeout with a bunch of canadian hotties. ---
**Author:** ![crazyz250](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/crazyz250/32/6352_2.png) [@crazyz250](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/crazyz250)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/31 "2009-01-17T21:23:35Z")
> [@skiboard06"](#): > > take off your front bar, or lose a link as we both have. **Car then plows** , rather than the assumed drastic oversteer. I’ll give you something to plow, pal. ---
**Author:** ![skiboard06](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@skiboard06](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/skiboard06)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/32 "2009-01-17T21:24:03Z")
> [@~\*OFFICIAL Buffalo Sabres Thread\*~](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/official-buffalo-sabres-thread/4208/2370): > > I’ll give you something to plow, pal. I’m assuming you mean your gf. ---
**Author:** ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/33 "2009-01-17T21:24:24Z")
Nm, still had this bookmarked from years ago: [http://www.240edge.com/performance/reference.pdf](http://www.240edge.com/performance/reference.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![crazyz250](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/crazyz250/32/6352_2.png) [@crazyz250](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/crazyz250)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/34 "2009-01-17T21:24:42Z")
> [@~\*OFFICIAL Buffalo Sabres Thread\*~](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/official-buffalo-sabres-thread/4208/2371): > > I’m assuming you mean your gf. Get the fuck outta here! For fuck sakes go party or somethin, its Saturday… SHIT! ---
**Author:** ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/35 "2009-01-17T21:25:44Z")
> [@~\*OFFICIAL Buffalo Sabres Thread\*~](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/official-buffalo-sabres-thread/4208/2374): > > Get the fuck outta here! For fuck sakes go party or somethin, its Saturday… SHIT! LOL Whoa srs thread now. ---
**Author:** ![crazyz250](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/crazyz250/32/6352_2.png) [@crazyz250](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/crazyz250)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/36 "2009-01-17T21:26:02Z")
> [@On another topic](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/12707/4): > > LOL Whoa srs thread now. Fuckin BMW DOUCHEBAG ---
**Author:** ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/37 "2009-01-17T21:26:45Z")
:rofl WTF is going on, did I miss a post or something? Relax killer. ---
**Author:** ![crazyz250](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/crazyz250/32/6352_2.png) [@crazyz250](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/crazyz250)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/38 "2009-01-17T21:27:23Z")
I cant stand this! My honda makes so much boost my asshole flutters at 3200RPM. WTF?! My seats are from an… … ACURA! ---
**Author:** ![skiboard06](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@skiboard06](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/skiboard06)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/39 "2009-01-17T21:28:37Z")
> [@~\*OFFICIAL Buffalo Sabres Thread\*~](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/official-buffalo-sabres-thread/4208/2373): > > Nm, still had this bookmarked from years ago: [http://www.240edge.com/performance/reference.pdf](http://www.240edge.com/performance/reference.pdf) [240edge.com](http://240edge.com) is THE authority on suspension tuning. Meet me in garage, DD research drift party in 10 min. Bring data acq from race car. > [@~\*OFFICIAL Buffalo Sabres Thread\*~](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/official-buffalo-sabres-thread/4208/2374): > > Get the fuck outta here! For fuck sakes go party or somethin, its Saturday… SHIT! Says the guy who replied instantly to my post. ---
**Author:** ![crazyz250](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/crazyz250/32/6352_2.png) [@crazyz250](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/crazyz250)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439/40 "2009-01-17T21:29:38Z")
> [@FS: WORK RSZ EWING wheels](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-work-rsz-ewing-wheels/12588/14): > > [240edge.com](http://240edge.com) is THE authority on suspension tuning. Meet me in garage, DD research drift party in 10 min. Bring data acq from race car. > > Says the guy who replied instantly to my post. Instantly? Who says im not on beer #9 right now? Who the fuck says there isnt bitches in this house. Get the fuck out of here HOMO! [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/larger-front-sway-increases-understeer/241439.md?page=3)