# let the debate begin... **URL:** \ **Category:** Shift518 Automotive\ **Created:** [June 18, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866 "2009-06-18T13:45:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alpine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@Alpine](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Alpine)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/21 "2009-06-18T14:31:38Z")
> [@witnessed camaro\>black turbo integra](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/witnessed-camaro-black-turbo-integra/19514/39): > > The jury is still out on them , they havent been out long enough. As far as i can see the Cobalt is the same as a cavalier, aside from the SS, those are pretty nice. I disagree. Even the LS bare bones Cobalt is a HUGE step up in quality and ergonomics from the old and dated Cavalier. My parents own the LS model, and I gotta admit it’s a nice car for what it is. It rides great and like I said, ergonomics and fit+finish is a HUGE step up from the Cavalier. ---
**Author:** ![waltbabyluv](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/waltbabyluv/32/6300_2.png) [@waltbabyluv](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/waltbabyluv)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/22 "2009-06-18T14:32:23Z")
> [@NYSPeed Guitar Players?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/nyspeed-guitar-players/19523/29): > > That’s strictly marketing, has nothing to do with the quality of their products… > > People buy more of things at lower prices than at higher prices, remember? Going back to 11th grade here… :lol hmm they do? funny, the Camry is the top selling car every year, Toyota has no big dicsounts. If Chevy made a product people would pay full price for they wouldnt have to do that shit. Its not like they dont need the money. ---
**Author:** ![Alpine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@Alpine](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Alpine)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/23 "2009-06-18T14:32:40Z")
> [@OsoiNA6"](#): > > You can call engineering reliability into something BS and although it’s true most car enthusiasts take care of their stuff, most of the general public does not. > > It also takes more talent and foresight to be able to incorporate things into the design that make the machine easier to service, less susceptible to breakdown, sturdier overall, without incurring an unreasonable purchase price or negatively impacting manufacture-ability. > > I think that Toyota manages to do all of this pretty well. That, and they have been manufacturing cars that people want for the past 15 years. GM just recently started doing this… :facepalm They are too late to enter the game, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Alpine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@Alpine](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Alpine)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/24 "2009-06-18T14:33:20Z")
> [@lookibng for some dodgeballers](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/lookibng-for-some-dodgeballers/18266/34): > > hmm they do? funny, the Camry is the top selling car every year, Toyota has no big dicsounts. If Chevy made a product people would pay full price for they wouldnt have to do that shit. Its not like they dont need the money. The demand for Camrys is higher than that for a comparable GM. So, GM has to compensate for that. ---
**Author:** ![waltbabyluv](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/waltbabyluv/32/6300_2.png) [@waltbabyluv](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/waltbabyluv)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/25 "2009-06-18T14:34:10Z")
> [@FS: 91 Honda Accord](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-91-honda-accord/19574/3): > > The demand for Camrys is higher than that for a comparable GM. So, GM has to compensate for that. right by trying to give them away, and still coming up short. ---
**Author:** ![Alpine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@Alpine](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Alpine)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/26 "2009-06-18T14:34:45Z")
> [@Old lady \> mercedes driver](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-lady-mercedes-driver/19564/7): > > right by trying to give them away, and still coming up short. Yup. ---
**Author:** ![PJB](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/pjb/32/6389_2.png) [@PJB](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/PJB)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/27 "2009-06-18T14:36:51Z")
My dad has an '05 Ford Focus and I had an '05 Hyundai Elantra and to me the Focus seems like a cheaper built car yet the original cost of my car was probably $5k less than his (he bought it used a few months ago). His car doesnt have cruise control or a tilt wheel and mine had both. His car also has alot more of a plastic feel to it inside. It seems like a cheap car. Now for trucks the imports are finally catching up to the domestics but they still have some work to do. Toyota is having frame issues even with new Tundra’s. Also theres no import 3/4 ton+ pickups so youre stuck buying a domestic truck if you need something heavy duty. ---
**Author:** ![waltbabyluv](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/waltbabyluv/32/6300_2.png) [@waltbabyluv](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/waltbabyluv)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/28 "2009-06-18T14:38:30Z")
> [@WTB: Subaru STI rims.. snow tires would be nice too](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/wtb-subaru-sti-rims-snow-tires-would-be-nice-too/19560/8): > > My dad has an '05 Ford Focus and I had an '05 Hyundai Elantra and to me the Focus seems like a cheaper built car yet the original cost of my car was probably $5k less than his (he bought it used a few months ago). > > His car doesnt have cruise control or a tilt wheel and mine had both. His car also has alot more of a plastic feel to it inside. It seems like a cheap car. > > Now for trucks the imports are finally catching up to the domestics but they still have some work to do. Toyota is having frame issues even with new Tundra’s. > > Also theres no import 3/4 ton+ pickups so youre stuck buying a domestic truck if you need something heavy duty. Yeah, even I wont debate trucks. Especially for work and shit like that. YOu can get a really nice F-150 or Silverado for work for like half the Price of a Tundra. Which when your going to beat on and work a vehicle, thats a good ass deal. The Camry is the top selling car in the USA, the F-150 is the top selling VEHICLE in the world! ---
**Author:** ![Ilya](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ilya/32/6404_2.png) [@Ilya](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Ilya)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/29 "2009-06-18T14:38:50Z")
> [@WTB: Subaru STI rims.. snow tires would be nice too](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/wtb-subaru-sti-rims-snow-tires-would-be-nice-too/19560/8): > > My dad has an '05 Ford Focus and I had an '05 Hyundai Elantra and to me the Focus seems like a cheaper built car yet the original cost of my car was probably $5k less than his (he bought it used a few months ago). > > His car doesnt have cruise control or a tilt wheel and mine had both. His car also has alot more of a plastic feel to it inside. It seems like a cheap car. > > Now for trucks the imports are finally catching up to the domestics but they still have some work to do. Toyota is having frame issues even with new Tundra’s. > > Also theres no import 3/4 ton+ pickups so youre stuck buying a domestic truck if you need something heavy duty. Couldn’t say it better myself. ---
**Author:** ![Z28LT1Rocket](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/z28lt1rocket/32/6436_2.png) [@Z28LT1Rocket](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Z28LT1Rocket)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/30 "2009-06-18T15:47:01Z")
I have no idea what smokins trying to get at but… Import or domestic, there are good and bad from both. currently import companies are doing better because the “maket demand” has shifted in the past 30 to 35 years for smaller, fuel friendly vehicles. I hate imports, but you really have to give toyota, and honda credit. Niether of those 2 imports brake down that much, hondas repair parts are a tad bit more but equal quality imo. Also, the fact that some how someone thinks american companies only produce “6 to 7 good vehicle” depends on what you call “good” personally I like american cars just cuz im more familar with them and like the cheap, readily available aftermarket for them. but all in all it depends on the persons needs and desire. ---
**Author:** ![waltbabyluv](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/waltbabyluv/32/6300_2.png) [@waltbabyluv](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/waltbabyluv)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/31 "2009-06-18T15:53:41Z")
> [@A friend of my dad went to orlando and....](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/a-friend-of-my-dad-went-to-orlando-and/19578/11): > > I have no idea what smokins trying to get at but… Import or domestic, there are good and bad from both. currently import companies are doing better because the “maket demand” has shifted in the past 30 to 35 years for smaller, fuel friendly vehicles. I hate imports, but you really have to give toyota, and honda credit. Niether of those 2 imports brake down that much, hondas repair parts are a tad bit more but equal quality imo. Also, the fact that some how someone thinks american companies only produce “6 to 7 good vehicle” depends on what you call “good” > > personally I like american cars just cuz im more familar with them and like the cheap, readily available aftermarket for them. > > but all in all it depends on the persons needs and desire. exactly, this is a debate that will never end because neither side will give in, because we dont have to. We like what we like and have our own reasons. I agree about Honda and Toyota being about equal in quality. Toyota is just a bigger company so they sell more units. ---
**Author:** ![SSmokinn\_SS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@SSmokinn\_SS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SSmokinn_SS)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/32 "2009-06-18T16:18:14Z")
Like I said, every company has its pro’s and cons and it comes down to what the enthusiast wants, but to be narrow minded and say America only produces 6-7 good car’s is simply ridiculous… maybe when it comes to daily driver economical cars, imports have the upper hand (im not going to deny that) but when it comes to performance sports cars, I would stick with a american car all day long. ---
**Author:** ![Z28LT1Rocket](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/z28lt1rocket/32/6436_2.png) [@Z28LT1Rocket](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Z28LT1Rocket)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/33 "2009-06-18T16:20:41Z")
> [@So who thinks the placement of this intercooler....](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-who-thinks-the-placement-of-this-intercooler/19563/22): > > Like I said, every company has its pro’s and cons and it comes down to what the enthusiast wants, but to be narrow minded and say America only produces 6-7 good car’s is simply ridiculous… > > maybe when it comes to daily driver economical cars, imports have the upper hand (im not going to deny that) but when it comes to performance sports cars, I would stick with a american car all day long. word… I agree, and essentially thats what I said too!:number1 ---
**Author:** ![Mk4\_30R\_Ban](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mk4_30r_ban/32/6347_2.png) [@Mk4\_30R\_Ban](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mk4_30R_Ban)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/34 "2009-06-18T17:20:49Z")
> [@hands down, BEST political ad ever lol](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/hands-down-best-political-ad-ever-lol/19565/7): > > This doesn’t mean that they are the best cars out there, though… > > Anything will last if you take good care of it. I don’t buy into the “Toyota Reliability” or any of that bullshit. Buy what you like and take care of it, and it will last a long time… 193k and climbing. original timing set… have another toyota in the corral that went 191k on the STOCK clutch. id say toyota builds a solid powertrain. all i have had to do on my car is a wheel bearing, tierod end, and i replaced the halfshafts because the felt loose. not bad for 190+ the gto has 30k and already sucks… GM reliabilty\< toyota reliability ---
**Author:** ![PJB](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/pjb/32/6389_2.png) [@PJB](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/PJB)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/35 "2009-06-18T17:22:24Z")
Yugo reliability \> Chrysler reliability. ---
**Author:** ![Mk4\_30R\_Ban](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mk4_30r_ban/32/6347_2.png) [@Mk4\_30R\_Ban](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mk4_30R_Ban)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/36 "2009-06-18T17:26:51Z")
> [@FS: 91 Honda Accord](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-91-honda-accord/19574/5): > > Yugo reliability \> Chrysler reliability. if you want a yugo, i found one in kingston… sssssmokinssss 190hp is more than enough, you have problems controlling 350ish. why have alot of power when you cant control it? ---
**Author:** ![PJB](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/pjb/32/6389_2.png) [@PJB](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/PJB)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/37 "2009-06-18T17:29:04Z")
Theres a few Yugo’s in yards around here. Im pretty sure Mark’s garage in CP has one out back and I think theres one in Pownal, VT as well as a few others around. It would be kinda cool to swap something like a built turbo Civic drivetrain into one. Total sleeper. Too bad the Mustang drained all my money. ---
**Author:** ![usmc2801](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/usmc2801/32/6387_2.png) [@usmc2801](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/usmc2801)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/38 "2009-06-18T17:30:11Z")
> [@So who thinks the placement of this intercooler....](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-who-thinks-the-placement-of-this-intercooler/19563/23): > > if you want a yugo, i found one in kingston… > > sssssmokinssss 190hp is more than enough, you have problems controlling 350ish. **why have alot of power when you cant control it?** people like to have bragging rights…but I totally agree with you, why have more power then you can handle. ---
**Author:** ![Z28LT1Rocket](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/z28lt1rocket/32/6436_2.png) [@Z28LT1Rocket](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Z28LT1Rocket)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/39 "2009-06-18T17:30:34Z")
the gto has 30k and already sucks… GM reliabilty\< toyota reliability never knew that black gto was yours, never seen the totyota. plus, didnt you say you had some honda with a K18 swap or w/e ---
**Author:** ![PJB](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/pjb/32/6389_2.png) [@PJB](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/PJB)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866/40 "2009-06-18T17:31:38Z")
He’s got a VW Golf GTI, not a Honda [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/let-the-debate-begin/244866.md?page=3)