# McLaren Excluded from 07 and 08 Championships **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [September 13, 2007, 9:33am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301 "2007-09-13T09:33:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MPD47](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mpd47/32/7383_2.png) [@MPD47](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MPD47)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 9:33am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/1 "2007-09-13T09:33:45Z")
91MR2 sent this to me an hour or so ago, but I was waiting for more news sources before posting it. It’s on 3 or 4 now (PlanetF1, F1.racing-live, ITV) so it looks to be legit. Due to Stephneygate McLaren has been excluded from the 2007 and 2008 championship points. Let’s see if this pans out like the Toyota WRC ban from '95 where the drivers were screwed too. I can honestly say I’m REALLY surprised, figured a large cash fine, but not exclusion to one of the sport’s oldest, most profitable, and prestigious teams. ---
**Author:** ![fairgentleman\_Z](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fairgentleman_z/32/7263_2.png) [@fairgentleman\_Z](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fairgentleman_Z)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 9:39am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/2 "2007-09-13T09:39:45Z")
Are they still allowed to race without points or is it complete exclusion? ---
**Author:** ![MPD47](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mpd47/32/7383_2.png) [@MPD47](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MPD47)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 10:19am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/3 "2007-09-13T10:19:47Z")
It’s not yet known. Would you want to race without points? I can see them finishing the season and working on a car for '09. [www.marca.com](http://www.marca.com) www.gazzetta.it Are now reporting the ban, meanwhile [FIA.com](http://FIA.com) has been overloaded and is down. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/4 "2007-09-13T10:28:43Z")
[quote=“fairgentleman Z,post:2,topic:35301"”] Are they still allowed to race without points or is it complete exclusion? [/quote] If there are no points at stake it would be easy to finish first in every race.😉 ---
**Author:** ![fairgentleman\_Z](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fairgentleman_z/32/7263_2.png) [@fairgentleman\_Z](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fairgentleman_Z)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/5 "2007-09-13T10:51:15Z")
[quote=“MPD47,post:3,topic:35301"”] Would you want to race without points? [/quote] If the sponsors want to keep the rolling billboards going, then yes. The only “bad” publicity is no publicity at all. As a team they can risks and try things with nothing to lose. As a driver, perfect practice makes perfect. The question is why wouldn’t you want to race? ---
**Author:** ![MPD47](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mpd47/32/7383_2.png) [@MPD47](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MPD47)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/6 "2007-09-13T10:54:43Z")
Ron Dennis has made it very clear in the past that he cares about nothing in the sport OTHER than the Constructor’s Championship. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![EvoMR](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/evomr/32/7186_2.png) [@EvoMR](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/EvoMR)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/7 "2007-09-13T11:21:52Z")
I wonder where alonso and hamilton will end up for the rest of the season… ---
**Author:** ![MPD47](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mpd47/32/7383_2.png) [@MPD47](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MPD47)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 11:35am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/8 "2007-09-13T11:35:17Z")
According to the latest set of articles from 10 minutes ago, Alonso and Hamilton are safe for WDC points the rest of the season, '08 hasnt been announced. Also, Planet F1 is reporting a $100m fine for McLaren, but planet F1 is a bit of a tabloid so we’ll see if that is true. ---
**Author:** ![dmoffitt](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/dmoffitt/32/7455_2.png) [@dmoffitt](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/dmoffitt)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 11:37am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/9 "2007-09-13T11:37:48Z")
> [@letter to drivers](#): > > You will appreciate that there is a duty on all competitors and Super Licence holders to ensure the fairness and legitimacy of the Formula One World Championship. It is therefore imperative that if you do have any such information, you make it available to us without delay. I can confirm, given the importance of this issue, that any information you may make available in response to this letter will not result in any proceedings against you under the International Sporting Code or the Formula One regulations. However, **in the event that it later comes to light that you have withheld any potentially relevant information, serious consequences could follow.** Wow, the [letter from the FIA to the 3 drivers](http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1146605386__letter_de_la_rosa.pdf) was pretty blunt. they aren’t messing around on this… ---
**Author:** ![Rx3](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rx3/32/7194_2.png) [@Rx3](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Rx3)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/10 "2007-09-13T14:10:07Z")
So it’s constructors points only? I still don’t see why there is such a fuss. It’s not like McLaren went out searching for this info, it fell into their laps. If anyone should be punished, it should be Ferrari punishing themselves for having sloppy security that let something like this out in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Locutus](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/locutus/32/7574_2.png) [@Locutus](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Locutus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/11 "2007-09-13T14:14:23Z")
i started to read the articles… but what did they do to get this? ---
**Author:** ![nappy1380](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nappy1380/32/7502_2.png) [@nappy1380](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/nappy1380)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/12 "2007-09-13T14:43:08Z")
[quote=“MPD47,post:8,topic:35301"”] According to the latest set of articles from 10 minutes ago, Alonso and Hamilton are safe for WDC points the rest of the season, '08 hasnt been announced. Also, Planet F1 is reporting a $100m fine for McLaren, but planet F1 is a bit of a tabloid so we’ll see if that is true. [/quote] Oh it is true. $100,000,000 fine for the company > **[FIA fines McLaren $100 million in Ferrari spy case](https://www.espn.com/racing/news/story?seriesId=6&id=3017450)** > > Formula One's governing body says it has fined the McLaren team $100 million and stripped it of points in the constructors' championship in the sport's spying scandal. ---
**Author:** ![neurokinetik](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/neurokinetik/32/7270_2.png) [@neurokinetik](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/neurokinetik)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/13 "2007-09-13T20:23:37Z")
[quote=“Rx3,post:10,topic:35301"”] So it’s constructors points only? I still don’t see why there is such a fuss. It’s not like McLaren went out searching for this info, it fell into their laps. If anyone should be punished, it should be Ferrari punishing themselves for having sloppy security that let something like this out in the first place. [/quote] That’s been my opinion the whole time. Oh well, no point in watching anymore F1 races this season. ---
**Author:** ![Rx3](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rx3/32/7194_2.png) [@Rx3](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Rx3)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/14 "2007-09-13T21:02:57Z")
I also find it highly suspicious that the World Motor Sport Council that passed this decision down only has one team represented in its membership. That being Ferrari. No other team is represented on this board. ---
**Author:** ![MPD47](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mpd47/32/7383_2.png) [@MPD47](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MPD47)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/15 "2007-09-14T06:31:13Z")
There is no Ferrari conspiracy. This has a lot to do with McLaren telling the FIA they had the documents but didnt use them (first hearing, found guilty, but not punished) and then new information coming to light through an employee and then emails between del la rosa and alonso on car setup based on Ferrari information from the seven hundred odd page document. McLaren lied to the FIA about cheating off of another manufacturers playbook and got caught. Toyota in '95 WRC all over again. They should be thankful they have the McLaren name/history or they would’ve been straight up BANNED. ---
**Author:** ![Rx3](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rx3/32/7194_2.png) [@Rx3](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Rx3)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/16 "2007-09-14T10:51:40Z")
[quote=“MPD47,post:15,topic:35301"”] and then new information coming to light through an employee and then emails between del la rosa and alonso on car setup based on Ferrari information from the seven hundred odd page document [/quote] Proof? The emails stated they discussed the information. At no point in time did they setup the cars based on it. Hopefully the new “information” will be made public today and show this to be false because so far there has been nothing but speculation concerning this matter. If they had any SOLID proof of use of the information, then they would’ve DQed Hamilton and Alonso for the drivers championship. The fact that those two are allowed to continue makes me think their is a lot more posturing going on by Ferrari due to who received the information. I mean, Toyota was caugt red handed cheating last 2 years and NOTHING was done about it, but McLaren is now getting banished for possession (not their fault) of information that they didn’t actively seek? ---
**Author:** ![Daddie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/daddie/32/7621_2.png) [@Daddie](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Daddie)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/17 "2007-09-14T11:08:05Z")
100 mill is like DAYMN ---
**Author:** ![neurokinetik](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/neurokinetik/32/7270_2.png) [@neurokinetik](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/neurokinetik)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/18 "2007-09-14T15:06:33Z")
[quote=“Rx3,post:16,topic:35301"”] If they had any SOLID proof of use of the information, then they would’ve DQed Hamilton and Alonso for the drivers championship. The fact that those two are allowed to continue makes me think their is a lot more posturing going on by Ferrari due to who received the information. I mean, Toyota was caugt red handed cheating last 2 years and NOTHING was done about it, but McLaren is now getting banished for possession (not their fault) of information that they didn’t actively seek? [/quote] What if the info ended up in the hands of Honda, BMW or even Toro Rosso? Would the situation be the same, or is it because McMerc is leading the championship? ---
**Author:** ![Rx3](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rx3/32/7194_2.png) [@Rx3](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Rx3)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/19 "2007-09-14T15:41:54Z")
[quote=“Daddie,post:17,topic:35301"”] 100 mill is like DAYMN [/quote] not necessarily, I think that’s the total cost assuming that McLaren would win the constructors championship. I think they’ll end up paying more like $30M but still that is a huge chunk of cash. [quote=“neurokinetik,post:18,topic:35301"”] What if the info ended up in the hands of Honda, BMW or even Toro Rosso? Would the situation be the same, or is it because McMerc is leading the championship? [/quote] Bingo. And in other news and rumors: There is a rumor that the whole rehash of the Stepneygate scandal is the result of a failed attempt by Alonso to blackmail McLaren into making him the number 1 driver and giving team orders to Hamilton to back off. i.e., Alonso said that he would turn over the info unless he was #1. The Speed Team alludes to it on their F1 roundtable here: [http://www.speedtv.com/](http://www.speedtv.com/) Matchett said he wouldn’t touch Alonso’s car. As the World Turns 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![VANDIT](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vandit/32/4977_2.png) [@VANDIT](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/VANDIT)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301/20 "2007-09-14T16:01:50Z")
[quote=“fairgentleman Z,post:5,topic:35301"”] If the sponsors want to keep the rolling billboards going, then yes. The only “bad” publicity is no publicity at all. As a team they can risks and try things with nothing to lose. As a driver, perfect practice makes perfect. The question is why wouldn’t you want to race? [/quote] 👏 perfectly said… i agree 100% [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/mclaren-excluded-from-07-and-08-championships/35301.md?page=2)