# multi-link argument **URL:** \ **Category:** SON240sx Automotive\ **Created:** [March 28, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520 "2006-03-28T22:44:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hector](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/43a26b/32.png) [@Hector](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Hector)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/1 "2006-03-28T22:44:48Z")
are these parts v-tec compatible? ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 6:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/2 "2006-03-29T06:50:29Z")
> [@BAS](#): > > what suspension type does this QA1 use? different systems will cause very different loading characteristics. > > But hey whatever, if you want to say that aluminum is stronger in shear and tensile then steel you go ahead, personally I know better. quote where i said that aluminum is stronger than steel… i said the static load rating is higher, and after ACTUAL TESTING, QA1 has deteremined that it is for these particular rod ends… if you dont know who QA1 is then shut your mouth and stop putting words in mine. do your research and you’ll find out that QA1 is a multi-million dollar company who OWNS other suspension companies that you may have heard of… Carrera for example. their rod ends are among the best in the business and i have found more professionals using and recommending QA1 than i have with FK or Aurora. ---
**Author:** ![Axlerod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8edcca/32.png) [@Axlerod](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Axlerod)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 8:26am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/3 "2006-03-29T08:26:03Z")
> [@Theo23](#): > > [quote=BAS]what suspension type does this QA1 use? different systems will cause very different loading characteristics. > > But hey whatever, if you want to say that aluminum is stronger in shear and tensile then steel you go ahead, personally I know better. These are rod ends, they are not bolts. There is no shear load on these things. The load is all in-line with the arms, there is no axial loading to speak of (very minor but irrelivent), unless you set the car on a curb in which case you are going to break whatever the material is.[/quote] I’m no expert on suspension geometry, but if you bump the curb with the bottom of the tire, won’t it pull on the rod end? When you talk about load ratings, does it apply to the rigidity? Like how you would snap a stick over your knee… I remember seeing those pics of the old style RUCAs snapped like that when the rod end siezed. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/4 "2006-03-29T08:33:16Z")
i am going to say that you are going to have to do your own research to determine whether you are comfortable with it or not. i dont just slap $hit together here… i consult with people in the industry, not performance tuning, but the manufacture of these components. the guys that build these arms used be OEM for Ford and now they build suspension, fuel delivery and chassis parts for Bicknell Racing Products, whom i also consult with and have purchased material inputs from in the past. These 2 companies have decades of racing and manufacturing experience. In the past when i have brought projects to the table that were quite feasible they would check me. afterall, their name is on these products too. also, i am sure your concerns are only with teh aluminum rod ends… if that is the case… you can select the steel rod ends. issue resolved. ---
**Author:** ![BAS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bas/32/5540_2.png) [@BAS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BAS)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 9:43am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/5 "2006-03-29T09:43:42Z")
The shear load is ON the THREADS… I’ve said this already. SO drifting or a power slide or ANY form of side loading on the wheel, ( resulting in a shear load on the threads of all the linkages…), from a turn apparently puts zero shear load on a wheel for you… really? what kind of car do you drive that has this amazing ability… > [@Theo23](#): > > These are rod ends, they are not bolts. There is no shear load on these things. The load is all in-line with the arms, there is no axial loading to speak of (very minor but irrelivent), unless you set the car on a curb in which case you are going to break whatever the material is. ---
**Author:** ![BAS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bas/32/5540_2.png) [@BAS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BAS)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/6 "2006-03-29T10:03:18Z")
> “quote where i said that aluminum is stronger than steel…” > > “i said the static load rating is higher” Right there is where you said it on this page… Also it’s called ’ static’ for a reason; ‘A load which does not undergo a change in magnitude or direction during a measurement procedure.’ Now correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the linkage MOVE and have all the forces of the wheels loading applied to it… that’s why you HAVE linkage to keep the wheel from moving around… > I cant answer all the wonderful tech questions people have because i r not teh engineer… This I agree with, So if you plan to sell Technical parts perhaps you should bring in someone with a basic technical background TO answer these questions or at very least provide the test results of both the steel compared to the Alloy. > [@bing](#): > > quote where i said that aluminum is stronger than steel… > > i said the static load rating is higher, and after ACTUAL TESTING, QA1 has deteremined that it is for these particular rod ends… > > if you dont know who QA1 is then shut your mouth and stop putting words in mine. > > do your research and you’ll find out that QA1 is a multi-million dollar company who OWNS other suspension companies that you may have heard of… Carrera for example. > > their rod ends are among the best in the business and i have found more professionals using and recommending QA1 than i have with FK or Aurora. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/7 "2006-03-29T11:42:09Z")
> [@BAS](#): > > > “quote where i said that aluminum is stronger than steel…” > > > > “i said the static load rating is higher” > > Right there is where you said it on this page… read again, i didnt say that aluminum as a staic load rating higher than steel, i said that these aluminum rod ends do. I am right and you are wrong, please refer to page 104 of QA1’s catalogue or call them directly for their testing procedures. > [@bing](#): > > i said the static load rating is higher, and after ACTUAL TESTING, QA1 has deteremined that it is for these particular rod ends… > [@BAS](#): > > > I cant answer all the wonderful tech questions people have because i r not teh engineer… > > This I agree with, So if you plan to sell Technical parts perhaps you should bring in someone with a basic technical background TO answer these questions or at very least provide the test results of both the steel compared to the Alloy. I already address this concern here… > [@bing](#): > > i consult with people in the industry, not performance tuning, but the manufacture of these components. the guys that build these arms used be OEM for Ford and now they build suspension, fuel delivery and chassis parts for Bicknell Racing Products, whom i also consult with and have purchased material inputs from in the past. > > These 2 companies have decades of racing and manufacturing experience. In the past when i have brought projects to the table that were quite feasible they would check me. afterall, their name is on these products too. > > also, i am sure your concerns are only with teh aluminum rod ends… if that is the case… you can select the steel rod ends. issue resolved. * * * Ian, since you obviously cannot read there is no reason for you to be on SON240sx.ca You are speculating and trying to create a hysteria over information that is proven to be true. Them men that build these and the advice i seek out is from people superior to yourself as proven by the success of their operations. If your advice were valid i would have asked you or more importantly you would have a better reputation and a more successful business. but you do not. you have forgotten youself, i am not Mike. for those that have concerns about Ians claims of static load I have the 2006 catalogue here with the testing procedures and static load ratings for every rod end they produce. I am also an authorised canadian vendor for QA1. ---
**Author:** ![Uniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/34f0e0/32.png) [@Uniac](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Uniac)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/8 "2006-03-29T14:06:52Z")
> [@bing](#): > > QA1 is one of the biggest north american racing products companies with a focus specifically on suspension. > > [www.qa1.net](http://www.qa1.net) > > they own various suspension companies and produce dampers in every form from monotube, deflective disc, twin tube etc. in all kinds of materials including Aluminum > > they produce Springs and are the authority for automotive rod end applications. > > they are located in Minnesota and produce some of the highest quality suspension products for domestics, dirt-track, circle-track, drag, street-rods etc. etc. > > they are ISO9001 certified > > but of course, they are not qualified to produce an aluminum rod end…what was i thinking Indeed Bing, you should know, 1 must ask Ian about welding and suspension and various other things before you market a product. Tisk tisk. Wasn’t ian banned in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![BAS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bas/32/5540_2.png) [@BAS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BAS)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/9 "2006-03-29T21:02:12Z")
Took your advice and went to the site to look at the specs Static load test on two parts of the same dimentions and specs… Aluminum 19,300 lbs Cromoly 40,572 lbs as you say, your not comfortable with alloy then use something else… like cromoly… My point in this was TO point out that just saying something that you don’t understand is going to get others who trust you and take your ’ word for it’ possibly in a world of hurt. One more thing… what has not been mentioned and should be mentioned is that unlike steel and cromoly… Aluminum’s fatigue rate is much much higher… Fatigue occours everytime any load is put on the part… ---
**Author:** ![Axlerod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8edcca/32.png) [@Axlerod](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Axlerod)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/10 "2006-03-29T21:27:29Z")
Are the chromoly ones a lot more, bing? ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/11 "2006-03-29T23:46:51Z")
yes they are and the reason is because they are a totally different size. note Ian that the XML10-12 is a 3/4" rod end not a 5/8" the 5/8" or XMR10 is 17,955 which is what i am using. for the steel / chromoly ones. also keep in mind that SPL is using rods ends with 1/3 the static load rating. both of these rod ends are over kill as far as strength. i do have 3/4" rod ends in stock for the TC rods that i am building, but not the XM series because of the reduced alignment on the rod ends. the TC rods require a higher misalignment as i have been advised and so the XM or AM series cannot be used… or could be used but run the risk of over extending the bearing… i am sure there is a word for that… maybe i’ll go ask the engineers… ---
**Author:** ![BAS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bas/32/5540_2.png) [@BAS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BAS)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/12 "2006-03-30T19:08:03Z")
your numbers are based on dissimilar thread pitches as well… which is where my argument is based. similar thread pitches will vary the results greatly 3/4 -13 AMR10-12 19300lb XPMR10-12 40,572lb same thread pitch, same sizing. step down to 5/8 -16 AMR10 8,600lb XPMR10 17,955lb anyway good to see your taking the high road and not tyring to get me banned or something goofy for bringing this up… ---
**Author:** ![BAS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bas/32/5540_2.png) [@BAS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BAS)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2006, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/13 "2006-04-01T11:51:52Z")
the thing is Aluminum IS a not as strong, in ANY measurement as Cromoly. That’s not debateable. If these aluminum parts are made to a different and more robust configuration that allows them to be as strong as cromoly then fine. However properly prepped cromoly does not rust like you’ve shown above. We use cromoly tube as the frames for aircraft and some have been flying in Oregon and Alaska with no signs of rust for the last 10 years. also the linkages used are cromoly as no plane builder is crazy enough to use aluminum, it does not have the fatigue strength required and it DOES elongate under load. Suspension Dynamics, Ohlins, Snapdragon, Sachs, URAS, NAM’s, Fujita… use cromoly or titaniuium rod ends… not really the point who uses it, it’s HOW it’s made. IF the aluminum product is sufficently oversized in it’s design to take into account aluminums shortcomings compared to cormoly then it should work… but any weight savings you would gain by using that is pretty much gone. Also Aluminum WILL rust and mor eimportantly it will gall and sieze to it’s self under load. ( the annodizing comes off as soon as you thread one surface to another… ) ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2006, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/14 "2006-04-01T12:11:56Z")
that is all well and good, my point here is that your claims that these rod ends were shear clean out were and are incorrect. i base this on the fact that the same materials are used on the same products by other manufacturers and successfully so. i base it on the fact that these components are made out of billet 6061 aluminum and persons with extensive experience, degrees, certifications etc have agreed that it will be fine. I have reason to beleive that mathematically speaking the shear rating on aluminum is even higher than the static load ratings of the rod ends i use which happen to be the highest available for this type of product i base it on the fact that QA1 is ISO9001 certified and so there will be no quality issues with the rod ends. Further, the rod ends are designed specifically for these types of applications. i would like to point out that your arguements, particularly about the load ratings, were based on incorrect or mismatched part numbers that have nothing to do with the products i have put to market. I would also like to point out that the components i have employed are superior in specifications to other competitive products. My rod ends have at least double and upwards of 5 times the static load rating of other arms and the 7/8" chormoly i am sure you will agree is stronger than the aluminum hex bar or milled rods employed by BV and Peak. The reason i am laying out this response like this is because i intend to edit down this thread and eliminate alot of what has been said because the fears were unwarranted. i do not want to edit this thread until there is a consensus that the aluminum will stand up to everything we throw at it and it would be nice if you would ackowledge that because i am sure you agree at this point. The notion that i would have included components not suitable for their intended purpose can be very damaging and since you have made that claim, erroneously, i would like you to renag on it officially. I will take it as a sign that i can edit this thread without complaint. otherwise, i expect that you and bob will both call Battle Version and Peak Performance and advise them that they are using inferior material inputs and that they should remove their products from the market based on the information, or lack their of, expressed here. > [@BAS](#): > > too bad the threads will shear way before the steel would even be put under medium loading… pretty, but a bad design. At minimum you should have a thread diameter that’s at least 4mm more and be using a modified ACME thread for strength… > [@BAS](#): > > what suspension type does this QA1 use? different systems will cause very different loading characteristics. > > But hey whatever, if you want to say that aluminum is stronger in shear and tensile then steel you go ahead, personally I know better. > [@BAS](#): > > Took your advice and went to the site to look at the specs Static load test on two parts of the same dimentions and specs… > > Aluminum 19,300 lbs > Cromoly 40,572 lbs > > as you say, your not comfortable with alloy then use something else… like cromoly… > > My point in this was TO point out that just saying something that you don’t understand is going to get others who trust you and take your ’ word for it’ possibly in a world of hurt. > > One more thing… what has not been mentioned and should be mentioned is that unlike steel and cromoly… Aluminum’s fatigue rate is much much higher… Fatigue occours everytime any load is put on the part… ---
**Author:** ![BAS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bas/32/5540_2.png) [@BAS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BAS)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/15 "2006-04-03T10:07:31Z")
Nowhere did I claim a clean ‘shear’ Since this concerns threads they will strech, fatigue and then shear off. Also you chose to ignore the parameters in which I made this claim vs. a similar ‘steel’ as I said above in this thread, you need to hire on someone with at least a basic technical background becuse you don’t have one… your making arguments about things I’ve already clarified and stated… either you don’t read or you don’t understand or both. YOU base it?? since when did you become a materials expert? (see the above paragraph) 6061 is NOT the be all to end all, it’s not even 'aircraft grade ’ materials as you claim, 7075 IS aircraft Alloy… 6061 is an abundant mid range alloy, there are many better alloys out there. Your info, like all your info is sales and marketing based. Best spin on it to make it look the best it can… YOu have no idea how often these circle and dirt track people change thier rod ends out … > I have reason to beleive that mathematically speaking the shear rating on aluminum is even higher than the static load ratings of the rod ends i use which happen to be the highest available for this type of product LOL since you have no clue aobut the WAY the test was done, how it was laied out and what perameters where used for wright and measure… that’s a pretty good trick. BTW Eng. are laughing at you right now. More of your salesman snake talk. the ‘rod ends your using’ could be made from anything, have vary different thread pitches and have a grease fitting on them for all we know. LOL ISO 9001 is system of paperwork and audit checking that’s it. ! I gave you a matched thread and thread OD comparison above. and the alloy still came out the looser… having no clue about the ’ others’ quality is you could be 5x better then crap opr 5x better then 1/2 crap… 7/8"'s cromoly is ONLY good if it’s got a reasonable wall thickness. translation; you intend to remove anything that puts your products’ slick snaketalk sales pitching to technical questioning… I see you have lots of confidence in your product and it’s quality… I’ve laied out that a) aluminum is NOT as strong and sromoly wising direct conparisons to make that point from your suppiers PDF tech sheets, and in basic materials science class anyone with have a brain knows that aluminum is not a material that handles repeated stress loads and constant impact with anysort of fatigue life… the olny caveat being; If you plan to change them every season then chances are your safe… Your wanting me to retract a statement that Iv’e shown to be correct?? becuse you say that physics is wrong and your uneductaed sales pitches are right?? not going to happen. I’ll give you this much, your a really slick salesman that can spin and manipulate just about anything… even more so when you have control over the context… which of course you do here… you much be in heaven. > [@bing](#): > > that is all well and good, my point here is that your claims that these rod ends were shear clean out were and are incorrect. > > i base this on the fact that the same materials are used on the same products by other manufacturers and successfully so. > > i base it on the fact that these components are made out of billet 6061 aluminum and persons with extensive experience, degrees, certifications etc have agreed that it will be fine. > > I have reason to beleive that mathematically speaking the shear rating on aluminum is even higher than the static load ratings of the rod ends i use which happen to be the highest available for this type of product > > i base it on the fact that QA1 is ISO9001 certified and so there will be no quality issues with the rod ends. Further, the rod ends are designed specifically for these types of applications. > > i would like to point out that your arguements, particularly about the load ratings, were based on incorrect or mismatched part numbers that have nothing to do with the products i have put to market. > > I would also like to point out that the components i have employed are superior in specifications to other competitive products. My rod ends have at least double and upwards of 5 times the static load rating of other arms and the 7/8" chormoly i am sure you will agree is stronger than the aluminum hex bar or milled rods employed by BV and Peak. > > The reason i am laying out this response like this is because i intend to edit down this thread and eliminate alot of what has been said because the fears were unwarranted. > > i do not want to edit this thread until there is a consensus that the aluminum will stand up to everything we throw at it and it would be nice if you would ackowledge that because i am sure you agree at this point. > > The notion that i would have included components not suitable for their intended purpose can be very damaging and since you have made that claim, erroneously, i would like you to renag on it officially. I will take it as a sign that i can edit this thread without complaint. > > otherwise, i expect that you and bob will both call Battle Version and Peak Performance and advise them that they are using inferior material inputs and that they should remove their products from the market based on the information, or lack their of, expressed here. > > [quote=BAS]too bad the threads will shear way before the steel would even be put under medium loading… pretty, but a bad design. At minimum you should have a thread diameter that’s at least 4mm more and be using a modified ACME thread for strength… > [@BAS](#): > > what suspension type does this QA1 use? different systems will cause very different loading characteristics. > > But hey whatever, if you want to say that aluminum is stronger in shear and tensile then steel you go ahead, personally I know better. > [@BAS](#): > > Took your advice and went to the site to look at the specs Static load test on two parts of the same dimentions and specs… > > Aluminum 19,300 lbs > Cromoly 40,572 lbs > > as you say, your not comfortable with alloy then use something else… like cromoly… > > My point in this was TO point out that just saying something that you don’t understand is going to get others who trust you and take your ’ word for it’ possibly in a world of hurt. > > One more thing… what has not been mentioned and should be mentioned is that unlike steel and cromoly… Aluminum’s fatigue rate is much much higher… Fatigue occours everytime any load is put on the part… [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![TM1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tm1/32/5517_2.png) [@TM1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TM1)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/16 "2006-04-03T10:16:14Z")
Bing don’t mention my name… I’m cut off from your parts remember? Besides BAS is doing an excellent job showing how little you truely know… Bravo… ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/17 "2006-04-03T11:53:43Z")
good job ian, keep going on all teh speculation… i did my research on you as well…38 is it? or 40? why are you on here arguing with people have your age? have you seen the new movie “Failure to Launch”? anyways… on the topic of sidewall thickness: beat you to it… already did that analysis last year. > [@BAS](#): > > LOL ISO 9001 is system of paperwork and audit checking that’s it. ! good call on that too, i (alone) just finished completing a 400+ page, two part appeal to the Federal government on workplace health and safety, our firm is also HACCP certified. your comment is equivalent to saying HACCP is just a series of checks and balances, or that Workplace safety is just a series of inane policies. in other words, you have either never worked in a ISO ceritified environment or if you did you were a line-lacky that had no invovlvement in the development of the program. either is equally likely i see. for the record, ISO and HACCP, as far as structure and development are virtually the same. The difference being the industry or product, not the objective or difficulty. * * * what type of actual ceritifcations do you have Ian? i know bob has none, and i know that the people that build my parts do. seeing as you have continued to ignore that i dont manufacture these parts, that they are in fact professionally built, if you cannot substantiate your claims by backing it up with formal education i will assume you are all talk. > [@BAS](#): > > YOu have no idea how often these circle and dirt track people change thier rod ends out … sure i do, they build these arms for me and i use to source my rod ends from them before i went direct with QA1 so you’re wrong on that one too > [@BAS](#): > > BTW Eng. are laughing at you right now actually my engineers are trying to get me to develop other products for which there is a market. We’ve already started on some stuff that willl be ready this year. taking current products and making them better… you know, like 3M?.. well maybe you dont. > [@BAS](#): > > 7/8"'s cromoly is ONLY good if it’s got a reasonable wall thickness. you know the wall thickness and the thread pitch… do the math… i did… and i have compared it side by side with competitive products. so you are also wrong on this point as well, or at least too late for it to be of any use > [@BAS](#): > > I’ve laied out that a) aluminum is NOT as strong and sromoly wising direct conparisons to make that point from your suppiers PDF tech sheets you compared a 5/8 aluminum rod end to a 3/4" chomrly one… I’m the snake talker? you did it right here: > [@BAS](#): > > AMR10-12 19300lb > > XPMR10-12 40,572lb care to explain that mistake? you wrote down the wrong part number for the AMR, its AMR10H not AMR10-12 i already told you that the bore and shank must be the same, the numbers you quoted were not. … also, you and bobby-boy have failed to address the fact that Peak / Battle Version etc. are all using 6061 Aluminum in their arms. i repeat you and bobby-boy have failed to address the fact that Peak / Battle Version etc. are all using 6061 Aluminum in their arms. i’ll lay it out once more and be even more concise about it: the companies who produce products that I am competing against, sort of, are using materials you have described as inferior so I repeat: you and bobby-boy have failed to address the fact that Peak / Battle Version etc. are all using 6061 Aluminum in their arms. Did you get it this time? Also, address these issues: You have claimed that I should hire engineers several times even though in the very first post in this thread I expressed that these products are made by professional production facilities. The facility that produces them produces similar products for dirt track racing… specifically, Bicknell Racing Products. So if I had already said / typed / expressed this fact weeks or months ago, why is it that you haven’t got it through your skull yet? Same with bob, he also seems to think I am making it all by hand in my basement. Would either of you care to acknowledge why you have failed to comment on that fact? I should also point out that despite your claims I continue to get calls from people who wish to order these products. In fact, I am still backordered… now through the next few weeks because I cannot keep up with demand. Further, these people have read this thread and have seen what we all have to say… needless to say, they are not believing you. They must know you both and know your reputations and experience and seen both of your work. like that engine damper you built for derek that broke, what type of testing did you do on that? you do know that i provided the product that fixed it and that is still holding up today right? You both have also ignore that the aluminum is only an option, the chromoly rod ends that you are saying are stronger come standard on these products, I infer that to mean you are only suggesting that people stick with the chromoly rather than aluminum correct? Would you care to address that issue specifically as well? Anyways…. Keep it up, seems to be working in my favour despite what you ‘think’ Let me do you both one better, here is a quote from Bob ( TM ) in this very thread: > [@TM](#): > > I’m not going to lie… > > The pieces are good… > > Chromoly, with good heim joints, and fittings, for the price… It’s a good buy… > > Weight are lighter then the steel ones originally brought from taiwan, and stronger or equal to boot… > > Just don’t break one, or you’ll end up buying a new set…Unless you have a spare… > > It has about 3 moving parts… It’s hard to screw these ones up… And that quote was before I added the new rod ends which I have stated as being the best in the industry several times, its still true. Ok….GO! ---
**Author:** ![BAS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bas/32/5540_2.png) [@BAS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BAS)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/18 "2006-04-03T13:00:27Z")
LOL wow… now your trying to what ? hit me below the belt? get me angry over what? LOL looser. Oh and the family business IS 9002 ceritified ( which is part of the 900x series… so don’t pretend you know more about it then I do) you MAY know more about hotel and food management them me I’'ll give you that and MAY know more about schmoozing and being a slick salesman them I do… but your 1/2 a lifetime too early to be telling me anything. An ISO certification means only one person in the whole entire company needs to have completed the $15K+ worth of cert process… I have a B.Sc. and years working with aircraft and cars at the fabrication level thank you, which is a bit closer to the scope of the conversation then your HAFA diploma. anyway, anything beyond this point is purely YOU talking around questions making claims of doing some math and working to improve 3m products and other nonsense And just becuse YOU buy something from a company that makes the products and has a few eng. on staff … does not mean that you get any smarter or have gained an ability to be a materials eng. or anthing remotely close to it. At best your a slaseman driven by the dollar and ‘questionable’ sales ethics. Lastly "You both have also ignore that the aluminum is only an option, the chromoly rod ends that you are saying are stronger come standard on these products, I infer that to mean you are only suggesting that people stick with the chromoly rather than aluminum correct? Would you care to address that issue specifically as well?" Given that you’ve not provided me with any OD’s/ID’s, thread pitch/ thread lenght, forces applied to the product he composition and style of the rod ends … I cannot answer this question… but I bet you will regardless of not having any of this info. To this end, I have no problem putting any product you have for sale on your website up against anything I build and design… I’ll back up what I say here as more then ‘bitching’ or being ’ petty '. [quote=“bing”] good job ian, keep going on all teh speculation… i did my research on you as well…38 is it? or 40? why are you on here arguing with people have your age? have you seen the new movie “Failure to Launch”? anyways… on the topic of sidewall thickness: beat you to it… already did that analysis last year. > [@BAS](#): > > LOL ISO 9001 is system of paperwork and audit checking that’s it. ! good call on that too, i (alone) just finished completing a 400+ page, two part appeal to the Federal government on workplace health and safety, our firm is also HACCP certified. your comment is equivalent to saying HACCP is just a series of checks and balances, or that Workplace safety is just a series of inane policies. in other words, you have either never worked in a ISO ceritified environment or if you did you were a line-lacky that had no invovlvement in the development of the program. either is equally likely i see. for the record, ISO and HACCP, as far as structure and development are virtually the same. The difference being the industry or product, not the objective or difficulty. * * * what type of actual ceritifcations do you have Ian? i know bob has none, and i know that the people that build my parts do. seeing as you have continued to ignore that i dont manufacture these parts, that they are in fact professionally built, if you cannot substantiate your claims by backing it up with formal education i will assume you are all talk. > [@BAS](#): > > YOu have no idea how often these circle and dirt track people change thier rod ends out … sure i do, they build these arms for me and i use to source my rod ends from them before i went direct with QA1 so you’re wrong on that one too > [@BAS](#): > > BTW Eng. are laughing at you right now actually my engineers are trying to get me to develop other products for which there is a market. We’ve already started on some stuff that willl be ready this year. taking current products and making them better… you know, like 3M?.. well maybe you dont. > [@BAS](#): > > 7/8"'s cromoly is ONLY good if it’s got a reasonable wall thickness. you know the wall thickness and the thread pitch… do the math… i did… and i have compared it side by side with competitive products. so you are also wrong on this point as well, or at least too late for it to be of any use > [@BAS](#): > > I’ve laied out that a) aluminum is NOT as strong and sromoly wising direct conparisons to make that point from your suppiers PDF tech sheets you compared a 5/8 aluminum rod end to a 3/4" chomrly one… I’m the snake talker? you did it right here: > [@BAS](#): > > AMR10-12 19300lb > > XPMR10-12 40,572lb care to explain that mistake? you wrote down the wrong part number for the AMR, its AMR10H not AMR10-12 i already told you that the bore and shank must be the same, the numbers you quoted were not. … also, you and bobby-boy have failed to address the fact that Peak / Battle Version etc. are all using 6061 Aluminum in their arms. i repeat you and bobby-boy have failed to address the fact that Peak / Battle Version etc. are all using 6061 Aluminum in their arms. i’ll lay it out once more and be even more concise about it: the companies who produce products that I am competing against, sort of, are using materials you have described as inferior so I repeat: you and bobby-boy have failed to address the fact that Peak / Battle Version etc. are all using 6061 Aluminum in their arms. Did you get it this time? Also, address these issues: You have claimed that I should hire engineers several times even though in the very first post in this thread I expressed that these products are made by professional production facilities. The facility that produces them produces similar products for dirt track racing… specifically, Bicknell Racing Products. So if I had already said / typed / expressed this fact weeks or months ago, why is it that you haven’t got it through your skull yet? Same with bob, he also seems to think I am making it all by hand in my basement. Would either of you care to acknowledge why you have failed to comment on that fact? I should also point out that despite your claims I continue to get calls from people who wish to order these products. In fact, I am still backordered… now through the next few weeks because I cannot keep up with demand. Further, these people have read this thread and have seen what we all have to say… needless to say, they are not believing you. They must know you both and know your reputations and experience and seen both of your work. like that engine damper you built for derek that broke, what type of testing did you do on that? you do know that i provided the product that fixed it and that is still holding up today right? You both have also ignore that the aluminum is only an option, the chromoly rod ends that you are saying are stronger come standard on these products, I infer that to mean you are only suggesting that people stick with the chromoly rather than aluminum correct? Would you care to address that issue specifically as well? Anyways…. Keep it up, seems to be working in my favour despite what you ‘think’ Let me do you both one better, here is a quote from Bob ( TM ) in this very thread: > [@TM](#): > > I’m not going to lie… > > The pieces are good… > > Chromoly, with good heim joints, and fittings, for the price… It’s a good buy… > > Weight are lighter then the steel ones originally brought from taiwan, and stronger or equal to boot… > > Just don’t break one, or you’ll end up buying a new set…Unless you have a spare… > > It has about 3 moving parts… It’s hard to screw these ones up… And that quote was before I added the new rod ends which I have stated as being the best in the industry several times, its still true. Ok….GO![/quote] ---
**Author:** ![TM1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tm1/32/5517_2.png) [@TM1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TM1)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/19 "2006-04-03T15:17:25Z")
Apparently you aren’t listening Bing, but I’m not a part of this quarrel, nor did I say anything that was outside the admin section… and you here you are bringing me into your mess… I don’t have time to argue with you’re stupid smoke screens and lowball insults about age, schooling and so on… Because for someone who went through Hotel and Food Management, you sure talk alot of garbage to people who have gone through school to build just such parts… It works like this, the more you speak, the more you fall away from the original issue because you spend so much time avoiding the tough questions, everyone forgets the issue… Do us all a favor, and for once, just don’t speak… ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520/20 "2006-04-03T15:32:50Z")
so in the end all your guys are doing is making fun of me and not the product then, well that is fine i can take all the hits you can throw… obviously i never claimed to be a materials specialist or anything of the sort, i simply tried to regurgitate what i was advised by engineers. i never said i knew a thing about metals, but i know what i need to know. and yes, i do have a Honours Bachelor of Commerce with a focus on Hospitality and food management. in case you havent noticed, i live in a family restaurant and i am an exectutive for a family-owned company, for which my father was a co-founder, that is in the food processing industry… WWWWWWWWWHHHHHHOOOOOAAAAAAAA!!! OMG WTF WAS I THINKING WITH THAT DEGREE…lol oh yeah thats right… i’m half asian, i’m supposed ot take over the family businesses…lol and start a few of my own on the side… so in the end, your only attack on me is that i dont have an industrial degree… but that wasnt an accident. btw Ian, i love how you call me the loser… [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/multi-link-argument/94520.md?page=2)