# New Casino **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic\ **Created:** [December 8, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435 "2005-12-08T06:00:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/121 "2005-12-08T12:05:15Z")
Eventually alot of us will have moved out of WNY. That’s the end all for this debate… fueled by the very topics of it. ---
**Author:** ![RobHimself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e480ec/32.png) [@RobHimself](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RobHimself)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/122 "2005-12-08T12:07:44Z")
Eventually there will be a new peace bridge, just befrore the current one falls over. ---
**Author:** ![Juan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a698b9/32.png) [@Juan](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Juan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/123 "2005-12-08T12:08:00Z")
> [@MrFliGSR](#): > > The ball is a swingin is it down yet? ---
**Author:** ![Juan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a698b9/32.png) [@Juan](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Juan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/124 "2005-12-08T12:08:32Z")
> [@RobHimself](#): > > Eventually there will be a new peace bridge, just befrore the current one falls over. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![dozr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@dozr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/dozr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/125 "2005-12-08T12:10:22Z")
> [@JaysGreenLX](#): > > Now before you were saying to keep the grain elevators because of their historical significance. But if you turn them into apartments or offices, that historical significance becomes a plaque on the wall of the lobby. If you are going to keep something for its history, restore it to what it was in its hay day. When you turn it into some other kind of building (office/appartment) then its just a structure. > > And I am all too familiar with the development project in Buffalo. I used to work at Ciminelli Development. First of all, I said Architectually Significant. There is somethign about the old that enriches the new, don’t you think? We are not talking about restoring these to grain museums, we are talking about turning these structures into functional, useful facilities that serve new purpose. A bunch of grain elevators on the buffalo waterfront do nothing serving as museums and grain elevators, but one being used as a hotel, one being used as restaurants and clubs, one being used for a casino, these would be some awesome, interesting places. The problem is there is only two sides of these things looked at by the press… the hardcore preservationalist like tim tielmans who want these places restored to original beauty, which is just non-functional, stupid and not useful or interesting to anyone. And we have the people who just want them all razed for new development (cookie cutter cheap building methods with nothing old or historic about them). I am in the middle. Keep the structures, but make them useful. Such as the Holling place printing press that is now 96 loft apartments at 99% capacity. Such as the oak st school that now is residential lofts with a ton of character, and even have the original chalkboards and book cases in the apartments, along with the theatre, gym, etc. Such as the old church in pittsburgh that is now a bar. Again… There is somethign about the old that enriches the new, don’t you think? It just takes time, and money is flowing into this town unlike we’ve seen in nearly 100 years. ---
**Author:** ![dozr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@dozr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/dozr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/126 "2005-12-08T12:11:48Z")
> [@JaysGreenLX](#): > > The answer may be cost. I don’t know for certain, but I would guess the cost to renovate a structure like the grain elevators would cost nearly as much as building anew. you have obviously never been involved with any demolitions. I can’t imagine what this is going to cost, considering many of these mills were built to last forever, and its all moving heavy reinforced concrete. ---
**Author:** ![dozr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@dozr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/dozr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/127 "2005-12-08T12:12:25Z")
> [@Nikuk](#): > > Eventually alot of us will have moved out of WNY. That’s the end all for this debate… fueled by the very topics of it. This opens another can of worms for me that I will keep to myself for now. I \<3 buffalo. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/128 "2005-12-08T12:15:08Z")
> [@dozr](#): > > This opens another can of worms for me that I will keep to myself for now. I \<3 buffalo. Same here, to an extent. SO long as no one is going to start crying… post it up. BTW - this debate is breaking down, You are calling him out on semantics… :lol: ---
**Author:** ![dozr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@dozr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/dozr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/129 "2005-12-08T12:21:38Z")
Well, I believe Historical and Architectual are different… I thought that he might believe that I was of the school that thinks these structures need to retail thier original purpose, and that is not my belief at all. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/130 "2005-12-08T12:28:40Z")
> [@dozr](#): > > Well, I believe Historical and Architectual are different… I thought that he might believe that I was of the school that thinks these structures need to retail thier original purpose, and that is not my belief at all. ahh. gotcha. I’ll admit, You have quite a few good points, and there are other silos. …and there is other vacant land, but in the end - the land is sold. and, are You bowling? ---
**Author:** ![dozr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@dozr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/dozr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/131 "2005-12-08T12:36:29Z")
Of course I’ll be bowling. One more point. There is no plan for the land! There is no plan for development! How could you knock down something like this without at least having a plan! ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/132 "2005-12-08T12:37:21Z")
> [@dozr](#): > > How is knocking down, or not knocking down a grain elevator going to keep us, or accelerate us into the modern world? > > My point is that there is no reason to knock it down when it could be easily integrated into the design of the casino (which there is no plans for yet, btw) or have the casino built on other vacant land that the senecas have in the city. > > The casino would be built regardless of whether they allowed them to take down the grain elevator or not. Right? Right? Of course I am right. 😛 In keeping with your idea that the elevator is symbolic to Buffalo’s past, I’d say knocking it down is symbolic of Buffalo moving into the future. But enough sybolism, lets talk real world. How will it help us move into the modern world you say? First, it will take land that was producing a net ZERO for the region and create jobs and revenue. Argue all you want for or against the casino, no one can argue against the article I posted showing exactly how much money NF is getting from theirs. And as everyone knows, to get waterfront/downtown development started we have to get a spark from somewhere. Put up a casino, and maybe a huge hotel like NF just got. I still think Bass Pro will come, and the casino will only make it more likely. Add in the millions of dollars we now have to play with from the Niagara Power Project deal and 10 years from now we may not even recognize today’s downtown. Or we could go with your plan, just leave it all the way it is because it’s historic and shows when Buffalo was on the cutting edge of taking grain and lifting it up in the air. So what about putting it on other land. The Seneca’s tried that. They even spent all kinds of time in court trying to build it on perfectly empty land out in Cheektowaga. When that got shot down they decided to fall back on downtown. NFTA is NEVER going to release their stranglehold on their precious waterfront land, so that doesn’t leave a whole lot of options for getting near the water. The land the grain elevator is on was for sale, so they bought it. So why not just integrate the run down old grain elevator into the design of the casino? Are you kidding me? Yeah, Detroit has Greek Town Casino, Vegas has The Mirage (an Egyptian theme) plus a whole bunch of other themes and Buffalo can have the “Run Down 1950’s Industry Town Casino”. I don’t think that’s a theme too many people are going to be interested in, other than you grain elevator lovers. Lets face it, this has very little to do with protecting one of the most run down elevators and a lot to do with the anti-casino movement doing anything they can to prevent a casino. ---
**Author:** ![JaysGreenLX](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jaysgreenlx/32/7321_2.png) [@JaysGreenLX](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JaysGreenLX)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/133 "2005-12-08T12:41:14Z")
I’m sorry I started this thread. So much reading and so little work being done. The point is, the elevator is being destroyed as we speak. A good move in my opinion. A bad move in other’s. The only thing that can be done now is strapping yourself to the wrecking ball and hoping that the operator notices. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/134 "2005-12-08T12:44:21Z")
> [@JaysGreenLX](#): > > I’m sorry I started this thread. So much reading and so little work being done… Welcome to the interweb, please maintain a good fellowship :naughty: And, yes, the elevators are being destroyed. Regardless of opinions. ---
**Author:** ![dozr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@dozr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/dozr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/135 "2005-12-08T12:59:21Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > In keeping with your idea that the elevator is symbolic to Buffalo’s past, I’d say knocking it down is symbolic of Buffalo moving into the future. > > But enough sybolism, lets talk real world. How will it help us move into the modern world you say? First, it will take land that was producing a net ZERO for the region and create jobs and revenue. Argue all you want for or against the casino, no one can argue against the article I posted showing exactly how much money NF is getting from theirs. And as everyone knows, to get waterfront/downtown development started we have to get a spark from somewhere. Put up a casino, and maybe a huge hotel like NF just got. I still think Bass Pro will come, and the casino will only make it more likely. Add in the millions of dollars we now have to play with from the Niagara Power Project deal and 10 years from now we may not even recognize today’s downtown. Or we could go with your plan, just leave it all the way it is because it’s historic and shows when Buffalo was on the cutting edge of taking grain and lifting it up in the air. > > So what about putting it on other land. The Seneca’s tried that. They even spent all kinds of time in court trying to build it on perfectly empty land out in Cheektowaga. When that got shot down they decided to fall back on downtown. NFTA is NEVER going to release their stranglehold on their precious waterfront land, so that doesn’t leave a whole lot of options for getting near the water. The land the grain elevator is on was for sale, so they bought it. > > So why not just integrate the run down old grain elevator into the design of the casino? Are you kidding me? Yeah, Detroit has Greek Town Casino, Vegas has The Mirage (an Egyptian theme) plus a whole bunch of other themes and Buffalo can have the “Run Down 1950’s Industry Town Casino”. I don’t think that’s a theme too many people are going to be interested in, other than you grain elevator lovers. > > Lets face it, this has very little to do with protecting one of the most run down elevators and a lot to do with the anti-casino movement doing anything they can to prevent a casino. I dont really care if they build a casino… I dont think its going to do much for bringing new money into the city, and dont think its the best solution for a “jump start”, but it might help certain things, probably at the expense of others. If a local person spends thier money on the blackjack table rather than spending it at a local store its doing nothing other than rerouting thier expenses to a different buffalo business. This doesnt do much for the city. Tourists will go to NF before they come here. Like I said, I dont care one way or the other, but I dont think its going to be the godsend you think it is. We need people to move into the city, and new money to come to the city, these are the things that will drive new business and push the economy forward. You are living in a dreamland if you think a casino is going to do more for this city than all of the new urban residential development. ---
**Author:** ![tcm](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tcm/32/7365_2.png) [@tcm](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/tcm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/136 "2005-12-08T13:04:56Z")
after looking over this situation and what the senecas have done as far as planning goes, ill bet a casino never even gets built on the site of h-o oats elevators. theyll probably change their minds, take over the former dl&w terminal and ruin that too. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/137 "2005-12-08T13:05:04Z")
People from the WNY area (Buffalo-centric, not NF) will hopefully put their coin into the casino here. That’s about the only direct benefit of this casino. _Ideally_ the casino will bring about some supporting businesses/investments. Though doubtful, there is still a better likelyhood of this happening with a new casino (there are no plans, check) then with the existing/condemned structures. ---
**Author:** ![JaysGreenLX](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jaysgreenlx/32/7321_2.png) [@JaysGreenLX](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JaysGreenLX)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/138 "2005-12-08T13:07:40Z")
> [@dozr](#): > > We need people to move into the city, and new money to come to the city, these are the things that will drive new business and push the economy forward. Exactly. But that takes us into the whole corrupt government issue. A can of worms I really don’t want to open again. ---
**Author:** ![dozr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@dozr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/dozr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/139 "2005-12-08T13:08:36Z")
I agree that the casino may help bring some additional developers into the area… but its been moving forward pretty quick even without the casino in the cobblestone district. ie: Cobblestone Live/Work/Play project next the the arena, and Elk Terminal Lofts. ---
**Author:** ![dozr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@dozr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/dozr)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435/140 "2005-12-08T13:09:55Z")
> [@JaysGreenLX](#): > > Exactly. But that takes us into the whole corrupt government issue. A can of worms I really don’t want to open again. The fact is that people ARE ALREADY making the move into the city… every new urban residential property that has been developed and opened goes to max capacity within a month or two! They cannot build them fast enough! [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/new-casino/5435.md?page=8)