Nissan Leaf ($25k, 100m Range, 100% Electric) VS. Chevy Volt?

They just put in 2 EV charging stations at the shopping center down the street from us here in Raleigh. No cost to charge up … Maybe I should buy a Leaf and keep it there to charge the batteries lol. Volts and leafs are starting to become regular sightings here. I’ve even seen a Fisker Karms (spelling?).

I disagree with failed. They poorly marketed what the technology was. You can not compare it to a full hybrid. It was a $800 option? And got you a couple MPG better.
For the 2013 model they are calling it e-assist with 37 mpg and sell it as the base engine.

Compare it to the marketing blunder of the Civic Hybrid which just has a class action lawsuit for misrepresenting the MPG.

The reason they are gas (and premium fuel at that) is because gas keeps longer. Since the gas generator is a backup, people can go months without fueling it up. Premium fuel doesnt degrade as much as other fuels.

Another reason could be that GM doesnt have any small diesel engines in north america.

the car is fun, it rips. but id never own one.

Has anyone modded one yet to up the Voltage?

Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn announced a $6,400 price drop for the base-model 2013 Nissan Leaf. Last year’s base model was $35,200, while the new base-level 2013 Leaf S starts at $28,800. The Leaf SV will be priced from $31,820 for 2013 compared to $35,200 last year. The high-end Leaf SL now starts at $34,840, down from the 2012 model’s $37,250.

I saw this news this morning. A Nissan Leaf in the low 20s it really tempting. I do see that the charger is significantly different. The Leaf S charger is 3.6 kW. The others have a 6.6kW charger.

What is the significance of that difference? How much longer does it take to charge?

a sizable portion (of the price drop) can be chalked up to the Leaf’s production moving from Japan to Tennessee. The 2013 Leaf is not only assembled in the US now, but its lithium-ion batteries and the car’s electric motors are manufactured in the same southern state.

Nice. Explains why when I’m down there I see a lot of them.

---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 AM ----------

4 hours:

cut the time it takes to charge the Leaf in half, down to four hours from empty to 80 percent full. This will be standard on the SL and SV trims.

Because you didn’t ask for it…

According to J.D. Power and Associates, 2015 Leaf wholesale prices are about 1 percent higher than they were a year ago. It’s just 1 percent, but still. Dixon said the Leaf’s annual depreciation rate has been in the 25 to 30 percent range. “Now we have prices up for the first time ever,” he said.

I could never get one of these unless the charging was so fast it filled in say 5 minutes or less. The second part is the mileage. I drive 20,000 miles a year roughly. This sounds like a hassle to me. Having to worry if the car is charged enough for your day. Having to plan out where to stop if you want to take it on a trip.

If I’m paying 30k for a compact car, I want it to be fun and worry free. These cars require you to revolve and change your life style around them… rather than the car working for you when you need it.

If they get these up to 500 miles and under 10 minute charging without needing a fancy place to do it. I’m interested.

Start getting used to the idea at least, it seems this is where most manufacturers are going.

I’m not opposed to it and just like my phone, if I’m plugging it in every night I’d be fine.

EV’s have reached the point where they’re fine in a 2 vehicle household where the EV can have daily commute duties and the 2nd car can handle the road trip duties. They’re not practical for a 1 car family unless you want a lot of hassle on long road trips. Even if you can find a supercharger you’re talking 20 minutes to go from dead to 50% and 40 minutes to go from dead to 80%. Compared to what, 3-4 minutes to go from empty to 100% full with gasoline with a gas station at every highway exit and rest area?

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I am fine with the technology going this route, but I’ll continue buying used gasoline cars until they come up closer to the standards I’m needing.
The problem with plugging it in every night even if its not needed is that it kills batteries quicker. Please correct me if I’m wrong but with modern technology with batteries, usually the best results for longevity is to run them from full to almost dead, recharge the full amount and repeat. If you recharge batteries with 2/3 life left, its going to kill the life of the battery quicker. With how expensive those batteries are, its a pretty large purchase to replace.

I’m curious if in the future we will find more Tesla style ideas. Instead of a gas station you have a battery swap station. If every manufacture could get behind a set of batteries in the future. (3-4 different manufactures so its not monopolized) which I’d figure they wouldn’t want to team up that way, but I could see them having recharge stations/battery swap stations where they can hold each manufactured battery for a quick and easy swap.

YEARS FROM NOW. lol

Pretty sure this is old and applied to batteries from like 15 years ago. And even then I still recharged at 2/3 because lithium ion batteries only lasted 3 years or so anyway, lol.

@RedGoober4Life answered this a while ago I think.

I’m being summoned! Yes, full cycling was best for Nickel Cadmium batteries that had a weird “memory” issue where the voltage and state of charge relationship became less reliable after a few partial cycles (voltage is often the measurement of choice for state of charge with many battery chemistries). You could actually recover a nickel cadmium (and nickel metal hydride for that matter) battery by doing several full charge-discharge cycles (and at bottom of discharge, allowing the battery to rest open circuit, and applying discharge circuit again for a few rest-discharge cycles). There’s also this weird pulse-overcharge that some nickel metal hydride cars do for battery life, but it’s only about once a year… but that’s some weird shit.

Lithium-ion doesn’t need to be cycled fully, though cycling is the primary cause of degradation of lithium ion batteries. It is true that a smaller cycling window (i.e. the middle 40 % versus the middle 70 %) is better for life, which is why some manufacturers let the customer decide what percentage is top of charge (i.e. 80 % versus 95 %). A lot more degradation happens near top of charge than bottom of charge, which is why charging current is tapered at the top. A lower top of charge also helps with another factor with durability – “shelf life” at open circuit at high states of charge. Lithium-ion batteries degrade just sitting around at high voltages and high temperatures…

I’d say that topping up often is probably less taxing on the battery than fully cycling, though. Degradation due to cycling > degradation due to aging at high voltage. The battery management software should taper current accordingly…

With all that in mind, most manufacturers have oversized their batteries so the consumer won’t observe sizeable battery degradation. The Volt is a good example of this – that pack is huge and underutilized. Tesla seems to do a good job with this too (and they should, their cars are really expensive) – cylindrical cells have great cycle life. My feeling is that as the industry goes toward profitable BEVs that they will have to limit this reserve capacity, and the degradation will be passed on to the consumer.

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This related to refurbished batteries (you can get a new one for about $8k) but it’s interesting because the industry as a whole will start to see similar problems.

The early Leaf batteries are the canaries in the coal mine — their feeble charge an alarm for what is almost certain to become an industrywide issue.

Some dealers are equally frustrated, noting the lack of a refurb program hurts residual values and shoos away would-be buyers concerned about range.

The No. 1 question from would-be customers of off-lease Leafs is: “How much life is left in the battery, and how do I get another one?” Wright said. “And, we can never get an answer” from Nissan.

One reason Nissan might be holding off on the refurb problem is it hasn’t seen enough U.S. demand to justify the cost. Bringing the program to a large market such as the U.S. would require investments in the supply chain and a network of refurb sites because EV batteries are heavy and expensive to transport.

Oh rly?

That’s less power than a Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor Performance, but a good deal more torque.

Just like with ABS, airbags, stability control, iphones etc…in the next 10 years we will all wonder how the hell we lived without awd torque vectoring. With the right spatial awareness and control software stability control could turn into outright accident avoidance.