# Obamacares Fate, Votes in Today

**URL:** <https://forums.speedlife.net/t/obamacares-fate-votes-in-today/264228>\
**Category:** Shift518 Off Topic\
**Created:** [June 28, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/obamacares-fate-votes-in-today/264228 "2012-06-28T07:15:07Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 218

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**Author:** ![Cossey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Cossey](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Cossey)\
**Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/obamacares-fate-votes-in-today/264228/218 "2012-07-18T13:06:49Z")

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> [@Your top five albums of all time?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/your-top-five-albums-of-all-time/50165/45):
>
> Once this law takes full effect in 2015, it will be more cost effective for small businesses to not offer health insurance to their employees and pay the $2,000 fine instead, yes. I rep a number of pharmaceutical companies, so coverage is obviously a big deal to them, and I was at a PhRMA session in DC two years ago after passage of the ACA and they estimate that employer-sponsored insurance coverage will drop from 52% now to 39% by 2020, after everything is in effect.

> [@So what do the cooool people wear? Jacket/Helmet](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-what-do-the-cooool-people-wear-jacket-helmet/50186/2):
>
> Cossey is right NOW, but upstate and vlad will be right come 2015.
> 
> Business owners with employees are obligated to pay for social security tax, unemployment tax and others. NOT health, vision, dental, etc. So now the owner has that choice to spend $6K a year to offer benifits, or not to. Want better workers, to produce better products, chances are you need to offer benifits.
> 
> Come 2015 Vlad and Upstate are right. Now the owners have to pay ATLEAST $2000 per employee. So Company A with 10 employees at a part time coffee shop that has employees who dont need coverage if it was offered by the shop has to for over $20K a year to the gov now. But Company B with 1000 employees that spend $6K a person on benifits ($600K total) now can say go fuck yourself and get COBRA if you want insurance to all their employees and pocket $400K a year. (an probably loose alot of employees, and have crappy product produced by pissed off employees).
> 
> Once again, fucking over the little people trying to make a living in a community, and aiding the big bussiness tycoons. Go fuckyourself once again government.
> 
> This also brings up a good point. What if the employee has insurance under their spouse? Does the Employeer still face a penalty?

So again, I state that the companies give their employees benefits right now, pay what you estimate to be $6k/employee. If they take their benefits away right now will face a fine of $0… If they take their benefits away in the future, will face a $2,000 penalty per employee. So right now they can either pay $6k, or pay nothing, and they still CHOOSE to pay the $6k. But somehow you feel that they’ll be more apt to pay the $2k penalty under Obamacare, than paying $0 now?

In other words:  
Right now, it’s more cost effective for them to pay $0 over the $6,000. But they choose the less cost effective route.  
In 2015, it’s more cost effective for them to pay $2,000 over the $6,000, but at that point they’re more likely to pay the $2,000?

I can’t be the only one thinking that you’re point is completely invalid.

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