# Occupy Wallstreet **URL:** \ **Category:** Shift518 Off Topic\ **Created:** [September 29, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647 "2011-09-29T12:57:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cossey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Cossey](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Cossey)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/41 "2011-10-04T05:58:06Z")
> [@major drug bust in northtowns](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/major-drug-bust-in-northtowns/45797/10): > > They make that money only because they are allowed to make that money and thanks to lobbyists they put themselves into a very healthy position. > > 90% of people has a boss that tells them how much they make, for corporations the boss is the government. **Imagine if you had your own personal lobbyist to go to your boss and negotiate a sweet employment deal. Wouldn’t that be nice.** > > Of course they are paying more, how is that nor relevant? If you’re using %, which is the standard now for taxing everywhere, it’s simple math. More you make, more you pay. Are you seriously telling me that’s unfair? > > All that proves is that they are doing so extremely well that even without raising the tax, at the agreed % level their record earnings are bringing most tax income, while middle class is paid so poorly that the % rate for them brings in shit. They do that all the time. It’s called being in a union. ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/42 "2011-10-04T06:16:05Z")
Unuion is not an all mythical creature that robbs employers blind and makes employees wealthy you make it out to be. Glory days of unions are long over and besides a few trade unions left most are an empty shell of what they used to be. I will agree they do more harm then good nowadays as they don’t help the workers but collect the union fees and surely don’t help the employers. And FYI most jobs don’t have unions. ---
**Author:** ![car\_ramrod](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/car_ramrod/32/6441_2.png) [@car\_ramrod](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/car_ramrod)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 6:41am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/43 "2011-10-04T06:41:42Z")
the reality of it is that they are already paying more. and as far as paying the middle class more, where are we getting this money? Are we just running to the printing press and making more? You are looking at this wrong. Like I stated before the fundamental view of government needs to change, not what we pay our people or how much they are taxed. ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 6:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/44 "2011-10-04T06:50:41Z")
Paying employees only helps companies as they will have more money to spend on useless shit the companies make and support the general economy instead of being frugal. What is the “fundamental view of the government” that needs to change that you mention? And what does the view have to do with anything, everybody has a different view as is evident in this tread. And I already touched on the fact that they’re paying more. I’m not sure if you’re trolling or just playing devils advocate but explain to me how paying more matters when you’re posting record profits. Would you rather pay less in tax but see lesser profits? That’s what it seems like you’re suggesting. The companies are paying that much because of how much they make. If they want to pay less, nobody is stopping them from making less. Clearly they are fine with paying more as they keep profiting more. The system that on the last page you said nobody would agree with, getting more profit but agreeing to pay more in taxes. ---
**Author:** ![car\_ramrod](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/car_ramrod/32/6441_2.png) [@car\_ramrod](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/car_ramrod)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 7:05am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/45 "2011-10-04T07:05:16Z")
the fundamental view of Government is that there is too much of it. Spending is out of control and the current Presidency suggests that it is a taxation problem (ie tax the rich since they make the most). Nobody takes a step back to ask why. My question to you is, how is it fair to charge someone almost 50% of their wage in taxes just because they earn more. Regardless of how the money is acquired, the individual still has to work for it somehow (in most cases). I agree there is a massive disconnect from the bottom and the top when it comes to wage earners, but we as a people should not attack ourselves when the real enemy sits in the whitehouse ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 7:12am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/46 "2011-10-04T07:12:57Z")
Yeah because the companies have no influence on the white house and what bills pass as well as where our money goes. Poor innocent companies :rofl You say companies should be left alone and government has a spending issue yet too big to fail conglomerates needs money, if not from people then elsewhere. Don’t tell me you believe it’s all a fault of just the president? The senate is just as incompetent and corrupt in keeping their own interest. ---
**Author:** ![Upstate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b3f665/32.png) [@Upstate](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Upstate)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/47 "2011-10-04T07:25:48Z")
> [@This ones for SoloIIscoob...](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/this-ones-for-soloiiscoob/45752/24): > > You cannot be serious. > > You remind me of people at my work who won’t do overtime because “they will be taxed more and it won’t be worth it”. > > Really? You still will get paid more than you average rate even if it’s taxed higher and you will get that money back either way in taxes at the end of the year when it balances out that you weren’t in that tax bracket all year. > > I just laugh at them and take the over time. > > Some of you guys need math classes. :facepalm Overtime is different than a raise. When you get a $20K bump in pay you do move into a new tax bracket, or at least most people would. OT is entirely different and not what you were referring to in your original analogy. OT is also not taxed at 75%, which is the number you mentioned as fair and reasonable. Even still, if your time and a half was being taxed at 75% I would recommend working at the normal rate instead. $10 normal rate \> $3.75 OT rate after 75% taken out for taxes. (Your rate, not mine.) You also overlook the fact that while businesses are posting record gains it is not just the top executives there that reap those rewards. Everyone who owns stock or has a pension benefits as well. ---
**Author:** ![psi2high](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/psi2high/32/6320_2.png) [@psi2high](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/psi2high)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/48 "2011-10-04T07:50:21Z")
Our economy was built around these large companies and now that alot of them are diminishing you can see the affect on our economy. ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 7:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/49 "2011-10-04T07:57:10Z")
So you again are telling me that you wouldn’t take a $20k raise if 75% of it was taxed? Then you simply don’t like money. And dont get me started on tax deductions and the fact that I paid more tax than GE, who paid nothing and got a check back to 1.1 billion from the government thanks to clever accounting. You want the government to spend less, stop companies like GE from hogging the money. ---
**Author:** ![psi2high](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/psi2high/32/6320_2.png) [@psi2high](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/psi2high)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/50 "2011-10-04T08:00:31Z")
GE is creating jobs and keeping people employed all over the country and world. Hence their tax breaks. Schenectady probably would not be even half as large as it is if it were not for GE. ---
**Author:** ![Upstate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b3f665/32.png) [@Upstate](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Upstate)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/51 "2011-10-04T08:04:37Z")
> [@Picked up a 99 1.8T 5spd Avant for the wifey today..](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/picked-up-a-99-1-8t-5spd-avant-for-the-wifey-today/44632/64): > > So you again are telling me that you wouldn’t take a $20k raise if 75% of it was taxed? > > Then you simply don’t like money. No, because my boss would be expecting me to put $20,000 worth of effort in for the $5,000 I’d be getting. If you think about it with your head it’s just not worth it. Someone doesn’t just get a raise because their boss likes them, there are strings attached to that. And the employer doesn’t care that you aren’t getting the whole amount, they just know that they are paying it out. The problem here is you have no concept of where this money comes from. You seem to think employers just have stacks of cash laying around where they can throw out bonuses and raises to their middle class employees, who will then fork 50-75% of it over to the government. It’s unrealistic and frankly a little astonishing that people actual think that’s how business works. It’s not; just ask Friendly’s. ---
**Author:** ![Hang\_Your\_Cross](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/hang_your_cross/32/6381_2.png) [@Hang\_Your\_Cross](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Hang_Your_Cross)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:05am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/52 "2011-10-04T08:05:42Z")
How many people do they employ to warrant a fat paycheck from the US gov’t back by our tax dollars? If they can’t operate without help from the gov’t, then they should figure out how to fix their mess / accounting / salaries. ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:08am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/53 "2011-10-04T08:08:05Z")
> [@stretched tires...](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/stretched-tires/45810/3): > > GE is creating jobs and keeping people employed all over the country and world. Hence their tax breaks. Schenectady probably would not be even half as large as it is if it were not for GE. Troys industries worked out well for it didn’t it? They are not getting tax breaks, they are avoiding being taxed due to clever accounting and US not taxing on overseas income even though it’s a US company etc. Exxon Mobil and the like of oil companies pay nearly 50% in taxes while other companies like GE avoid it. Don’t defend them saying they provide for the workers. They need the workers much more than workers need GE. Companies pay people not because they want to but because they need to, to make their profits. ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/54 "2011-10-04T08:12:58Z")
> [@stretched tires...](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/stretched-tires/45810/4): > > No, because my boss would be expecting me to put $20,000 worth of effort in for the $5,000 I’d be getting. If you think about it with your head it’s just not worth it. Someone doesn’t just get a raise because their boss likes them, there are strings attached to that. And the employer doesn’t care that you aren’t getting the whole amount, they just know that they are paying it out. > > The problem here is you have no concept of where this money comes from. You seem to think employers just have stacks of cash laying around where they can throw out bonuses and raises to their middle class employees, who will then fork 50-75% of it over to the government. It’s unrealistic and frankly a little astonishing that people actual think that’s how business works. It’s not; just ask Friendly’s. It’s a hypothetical situation guy. Plus I don’t know if you’re familiar with this, but typically the higher up you go, the less work you do. Also if getting paid more is not worth it then why are you in a position where you are now? Go get a easer, lesser paying job. Because goddam, fuck working harder for more money. Companies have plenty of bonuses to throw around. I can find you half dozen recent CEO’s that fucked their company and got multi million dollar compensation packages after they got fired due to retarded contracts. They get paid MILLIONS for not even doing their job and getting fired. ---
**Author:** ![car\_ramrod](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/car_ramrod/32/6441_2.png) [@car\_ramrod](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/car_ramrod)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/55 "2011-10-04T08:24:23Z")
> [@\*\*\*\*Official: Southgate Meet Thread\*\*\*\*](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/official-southgate-meet-thread/29171/1517): > > Yeah because the companies have no influence on the white house and what bills pass as well as where our money goes. > > Poor innocent companies :rofl > > You say companies should be left alone and government has a spending issue yet too big to fail conglomerates needs money, if not from people then elsewhere. > > Don’t tell me you believe it’s all a fault of just the president? The senate is just as incompetent and corrupt in keeping their own interest. you are missing the point, it’s not “poor innocent companies” I also did not say companies should be left alone, because certain ones shouldn’t, and I didn’t say it’s just the President’s Fault, although he does play a large influence in the decision making process. What you are missing is that when people say tax the rich, you are also taxing the shit out of small businesses everywhere. Most small business are run as a form of LLC or S-corporation, so the taxes are done through the individual. The government whether it be through taxation or healthcare reforms, are smothering small business. We built this country on free will and capitalism. Capatalism gives you the right to go out, start a business, and make as much money as you can…without Government interference. But today, with all of the social welfare programs we provide, what incentive do you have to do that? America is taking a very dangerous socialist turn that could ruin this country. That being said, you are right, let’s just pay people more, tax them more, and everything will be fair and equal for everybody ---
**Author:** ![Upstate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b3f665/32.png) [@Upstate](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Upstate)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:43am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/56 "2011-10-04T08:43:07Z")
> [@Time Warner Blocking Websites???](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/time-warner-blocking-websites/45763/22): > > Troys industries worked out well for it didn’t it? > > They are not getting tax breaks, they are avoiding being taxed due to clever accounting and US not taxing on overseas income even though it’s a US company etc. > > Exxon Mobil and the like of oil companies pay nearly 50% in taxes while other companies like GE avoid it. > > Don’t defend them saying they provide for the workers. They need the workers much more than workers need GE. Companies pay people not because they want to but because they need to, to make their profits. Workers don’t need a job? Huh, good to know. . . I’ve negotiated tax breaks for companies bringing jobs to NY before, and I haven’t seen one that wasn’t worth it. The state may give a $300M break to a company, but that company in turn brings hundreds or thousands of jobs here that over the years results in billions of dollars in economic activity and investments. It’s not this cut and dry thing where government says, “Hey evil corporation, don’t pay us taxes for the next two years. It’s cool, we don’t need it.” You have to understand we live in a global marketplace now, especially with the advancements in technology. 40 years ago a company was choosing whether to put their plant in NY or PA. Now state’s are competing not just with each other but with other countries as well. So if I’m a CEO looking out for my shareholders, why am I going to want to do business in a state that taxes me outrageously inside of a country that taxes me outrageously when instead I can go to Ireland who has a 12% corporate tax? ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/57 "2011-10-04T08:50:56Z")
I never talked negative about incentives, I think they are a wonderful thing and is just about the only thing that can save the US. Entice companies to come back. Incentives is essentially state investing into itself, which is by far better than the other ways they splurge money. If that’s the tangent you were shooting for the entire time that’s fine. You have yet to address the other points mentioned above. ---
**Author:** ![Cossey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Cossey](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Cossey)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/58 "2011-10-04T08:55:54Z")
> [@Electrical Problem](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/electrical-problem/45372/5): > > Unuion is not an all mythical creature that robbs employers blind and makes employees wealthy you make it out to be. Glory days of unions are long over and besides a few trade unions left most are an empty shell of what they used to be. > > I will agree they do more harm then good nowadays as they don’t help the workers but collect the union fees and surely don’t help the employers. > > And FYI most jobs don’t have unions. I didn’t make a union out to be anything more than what you stated “would be nice.” Am I wrong in that labor unions often discuss wages for the employees in the union, as well as working conditions, vacations, benefits, etc? Sounds like a lobbyist to me. ---
**Author:** ![Upstate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b3f665/32.png) [@Upstate](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Upstate)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/59 "2011-10-04T09:01:56Z")
> [@OFFICIAL '07-'08 BUFFALO SABRES SEASON THREAD](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/official-07-08-buffalo-sabres-season-thread/36504/2527): > > I never talked negative about incentives, I think they are a wonderful thing and is just about the only thing that can save the US. Entice companies to come back. Incentives is essentially state investing into itself, which is by far better than the other ways they splurge money. > > If that’s the tangent you were shooting for the entire time that’s fine. You have yet to address the other points mentioned above. What other points? We’ve addressed you thinking it’s ok to tax raises and bonuses at 75%, and now you are complaining about GE getting tax breaks and “hogging the money”, which according to you is a bigger reason for our debt than government spending. ---
**Author:** ![Upstate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b3f665/32.png) [@Upstate](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Upstate)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 9:03am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647/60 "2011-10-04T09:03:19Z")
> [@FS: Treadmill, Speakers, Laptop](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-treadmill-speakers-laptop/45808/4): > > I didn’t make a union out to be anything more than what you stated “would be nice.” Am I wrong in that labor unions often discuss wages for the employees in the union, as well as working conditions, vacations, benefits, etc? Sounds like a lobbyist to me. I am a lobbyist (not for a union though), and that is (sort of) what we do. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/occupy-wallstreet/260647.md?page=4)