# old school uaw guys **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539 "2011-11-20T22:51:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jam](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jam/32/7235_2.png) [@Jam](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jam)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/1 "2011-11-20T22:51:17Z")
recently i was at a family gathering, and kind of struck up a conversaton based on the fact that i was driving my future father in laws 3 series. guy i was speaking with was in his early 70s and was president of the local uaw for a few years in the late 80s “i had a pontiac vibe as a rental for a few weeks, it was ok. wont step foot in a toyota matrix though” same car, same plant, different badges? wtf “we recently renegotiated our benefits, now we actually have to pay a bit out of pocket for our health insurance, never had to do that before” “i toured the nummi plant in the late 80’s.” thats it. had nothing else at all to say about how it could have possibly saved a car company from getting a huge govt bail out, had they played their cards right “they had the 3 strikes rule, they catch you showing up to work drunk or fail a random drug test 3 times and youre fired” 3 TIMES??? “i know guys that got fired for stopping the assembly line in the 80’s bc there was something wrong with what they were assembling” “im driving that impala, its a rental” its built by canadians!!! GAAHHHHHHHHHH 🖕 🖕 🖕 🖕 and everyone wonders why all of the decent blue collar jobs went overseas :ham: just venting ---
**Author:** ![1QIKZ](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/1qikz/32/6112_2.png) [@1QIKZ](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/1QIKZ)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/2 "2011-11-21T04:31:33Z")
Don’t get me started. ---
**Author:** ![BDR5oh](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bdr5oh/32/7315_2.png) [@BDR5oh](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BDR5oh)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/3 "2011-11-21T04:36:15Z")
i deal with this everyday … i can go for days arguing about this … its not just the uaw … its ALL unions … another thing is that most PRO union guys have NEVER held a job outside of a union gig … and dont realize what work really is ---
**Author:** ![TradersBASE](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tradersbase/32/5321_2.png) [@TradersBASE](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TradersBASE)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/4 "2011-11-21T05:50:45Z")
I almost got in some shit with a union guy at work over the “outsourcing” issue. He was rambling about outsourcing and the stereo dying in his Toyota (way to buy foreign and not support your cohorts LOL) and not knowing he was a union rep I said “we have the unions to thank for that”. He flipped shit and it was kinda funny considering I had 2 large screwdrivers in my hands and could have skewered him. 😛 In the end I made him look like an ass because he thought I was some young punk with no clue about the economy and outsourcing. He thought I was in my 20’s and I was 34 at the time with almost 5 years stock market experience. He’s a typical union guy with no clue what the real world is like. BDR has it right…most union folks have a lifetime of union experience and 0 corporate experience. They are out of touch with reality thanks to an entitlement system. Take a union guy and put him in the corporate world, pop some popcorn and get ready for an amusing show. I’ve seen it before. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jt76](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jt76/32/5100_2.png) [@jt76](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/jt76)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/5 "2011-11-21T06:32:39Z")
If you want to see what Unions can do, just drive along RTE 5 from Lake ave to downtown. ---
**Author:** ![FadetoBlack](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fadetoblack/32/6118_2.png) [@FadetoBlack](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/FadetoBlack)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:16am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/6 "2011-11-21T07:16:16Z")
Unions are a really complicated issue. Over the years I’ve sat on both sides of the fence. However, I feel that blue-collar workers have suffered enough in America. We shouldn’t blame the workers, we should blame the idiots that signed deals with the unions that gave them ridiculous benefits. Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![jt76](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jt76/32/5100_2.png) [@jt76](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/jt76)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/7 "2011-11-21T07:23:04Z")
> [@FadetoBlack](#): > > Unions are a really complicated issue. Over the years I’ve sat on both sides of the fence. > > However, I feel that blue-collar workers have suffered enough in America. We shouldn’t blame the workers, we should blame the idiots that signed deals with the unions that gave them ridiculous benefits. > > Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk There was a time for them. The time has passed. In 1900 “blue collar” people were living in tenement houses with multiple families to a room and eating out of garbage cans. In 2011 “blue collar” people live in the suburbs and drive Corvettes. ---
**Author:** ![TradersBASE](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tradersbase/32/5321_2.png) [@TradersBASE](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TradersBASE)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:49am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/8 "2011-11-21T07:49:07Z")
Unions are essentially a silent arm of the government IMO. The more you tamper the more damage you cause. Sure you can kick a can down the road quite some distance but eventually someone will discover the can has been empty all along. Wait, WUT? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ubengineering](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ubengineering/32/5171_2.png) [@ubengineering](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ubengineering)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/9 "2011-11-21T10:18:40Z")
not all the guys are bad, i deal with em everyday, but i have my own issues with the UAW that will never be worked out ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/10 "2011-11-21T10:31:30Z")
I’m very anti-union, but I can still see their very limited place in the PRIVATE sector (there should never be any such thing as a public sector union). The retail stores forcing people to give up their Thanksgiving so they can open at 10pm on Thanksgiving day is a great example. If the employees were more organized they could fight corporate BS like that. Unfortunately the minute they got organized like that they’d demand a minimum wage job like a cashier be able to support a family of 4 with 2 cars and a house in the suburbs and full medical plus retirement. You’re fucked either way. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/11 "2011-11-21T10:34:44Z")
If the UAW didn’t dig their heels in when Japanese cars starting kicking their ass things would be much different today. Now we are seeing the same thing with govt unions, TODAY over a trillion dollars is supposed to be cut but no one in Washington wants to change the fact that DC and surrounding areas are the highest paid in the country. Instead of just a shitty car company going under it will be the entire country. ---
**Author:** ![fairgentleman\_Z](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fairgentleman_z/32/7263_2.png) [@fairgentleman\_Z](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fairgentleman_Z)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:46am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/12 "2011-11-22T06:46:39Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > (there should never be any such thing as a public sector union). c’mon firefighters and police protect your life, the least you can do is protect their pay… [http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/142778/37/City-Charges-Firefighters-With-Massive-Overtime-Scam](http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/142778/37/City-Charges-Firefighters-With-Massive-Overtime-Scam) > [@wgrz.com](#): > > Buffalo, N.Y. - Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown said he was “shocked” when he learned of an alleged massive overtime scam by some city firefighters. > > According to the city, the scam would involve three firefighters working in concert with each other. Here’s how the alleged scam worked: > > Firefighter 1 would call in sick even though he wasn’t. That would then create an overtime opportunity, at time and a half, for someone at his or her firehouse. > > Firefighter 2 would then accept the overtime, but rather than work the shift, he or she would then turn around and sell the shift to Firefighter number 3. > > Firefighter 3 would then kick back money under the table to firefighter 2. > > The city discovered the alleged scam when a number of firefighters admitted to buying and selling shifts during an arbitration hearing at City Hall. > > 2 On Your Side obtained obtained a copy of the transcript from that hearing. > > One firefighter was asked: > > “Did you ever pay for a shift?” > > He answered “I paid for about 20 or 30 times, depends on what’s available.” > > Question: 'What are the standard rates for shifts?" > > Answer “About $165 for days and $270 for nights.” > > Question: “Do you have any records of people you have paid?” > > “No,” he answered. > > Another firefighter at the hearing was asked: > > “Have you ever received money for an overtime swap” > > Answer: “About $250.” > > A third firefighter testified: > > “It’s a brotherhood. In some way everyone gets paid.” > > When asked about record keeping, the firefighter tapped his head and said “it’s all in here.” > > 2 On Your Side’s Scott Brown spoke with the head of the firefighters union about this: > > Scott Brown: “Clearly it seems like there’s money being passed back and forth?” > > Union President Dan Cunningham: “If that’s what the transcript showed, then obviously the firefighter was telling the truth.” > > Scott Brown: “To your knowledge, do firefighters call in sick when they’re not sick?” > > Dan Cunningham: “No they do not. I’m not a doctor, but no they do not as far as I know.” > > Scott Brown: “The payments being made by the firefighters, I’m going to say under the table, do you know whether they’re being reported on their tax forms?” > > Dan Cunningham: “I have no idea. I don’t know if they report it, I’m not their tax person.” > > The city has turned its findings over to state and federal law enforcement officials. > > In asking them to investigate the alleged scam, the city charges that “firefighters are engaged in a practice of abusing and gaming the overtime pay…in order to pad or spike pension benefits for the union’s most senior members” before they retire. > > Scott Brown: “The city is alleging that firefighters are gaming the system.” > > Dan Cunningham: “I take exception to that comment, that statement, nobody has gamed the system. People are not calling in sick to create overtime, show me who’s been brought up on charges and disciplined for doing that.” > > Scott Brown: “Any idea what you estimate the alleged scam has cost taxpayers?” > > Mayor Byron Brown: “We calculate this could have cost city taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars for each year this is done. It’s a great deal of money, it’s money that taxpayers shouldn’t be paying. If someone calls in sick and they’re not actually sick that is wrong.” > > **According to city records, overtime in the fire department went from $4.8 million to $10 million in 2008** and it was that year that the city says it discovered a substantial amount of overtime going to a small group of firefighters. > > Scott Brown: “From 2006 to 2008 overtime jumped by 100 percent, why was that?” > > Dan Cunningham: “We have 29 fire companies - each piece of apparatus that goes out the door has to be manned with four men if one of those guys was off sick, injured, personal leave day, jury duty he has to be replaced. When you are short 170 guys during that period of time, and if you don’t have anybody to replace them, is your overtime going to go up?” > > Scott Brown:" Mr. Cunningham says at times the city has been 170 people short within the department?" > > Mayor Byron Brown: “He is woefully misinformed. At any given time because of retirements, there will be vacancies, but those vacancies over the last seven or eight years average 20 or 30 vacant positions.” > > And according to city records, over the last six years the fire department has averaged about 28 vacancies a year. > > Scott Brown: “Would like to see criminal charges filed against some of these firefighters?” > > Mayor Byron Brown: “I would like to see the practice ended immediately and firefighters who have engaged in this type of practice pay some sort of reimbursement to the taxpayers of this community.” > > Scott Brown: “And what about charges, or kicking them off the force?” > > Mayor Byron Brown: “I personally think that would be for law enforcement to decide.” > > Scott Brown: “Some people watching this may say the mayor doesn’t respect or like firefighters?” > > Mayor Byron Brown: “I have the utmost respect for our firefighters- they do difficult and dangerous jobs. Everyday when the bell rings at that firehouse they put their lives on the line for the members of this community. But at the same time, they need to conduct themselves- those that are engaged in this practice - and I would like to think it is a few rather than the majority - they need to conduct themselves in the highest level of integrity because the public depends on them.” > > Scott Brown: “Do you think the city’s allegations hold water?” > > Dan Cunningham: “I believe under past practices our members had the right to accept or reject overtime, or ask somebody else if they were interested in working.” > > Scott Brown: “Are you saying this practice of buying and selling shifts was going on for decades?” > > Dan Cunningham: "Yes, three or four or five decades. > > The arbitrator ruled that the swapping of shifts was illegal, and in February of this year Commissioner Garnell Whitfield issued an order stating that “there shall be no swapping of overtime…Any member accepting overtime shall report for duty or be considered AWOL.” > > Scott Brown: “I got to say Dan, people watching this are going to say this is a scam, guys are selling shifts to each other.” > > Dan Cunningham: “The arbitration hearing says that is no longer legal to do it. Nobody’s doing it, nobody’s doing it. But in the past it was a legal practice going back 40 years, so I tip my hat to Commissioner Whitfield and the mayor - if that’s what they believe they can stop the members from making more money and increasing their pensions that’s good for the taxpayers.” > > 2 On Your Side will stay on top of this story and keep you posted on what charges, if any, come out of it. ---
**Author:** ![97FormulaWS-6](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/97formulaws-6/32/7384_2.png) [@97FormulaWS-6](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/97FormulaWS-6)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/13 "2011-11-22T06:51:22Z")
> [@ubengineering](#): > > not all the guys are bad, i deal with em everyday, but i have my own issues with the UAW that will never be worked out Oh I know you do… my FIL deals with the same people… oh the stories I’ve heard from him… wow. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/14 "2011-11-22T07:01:02Z")
Reading that article on WGRZ this morning made me sick, especially the dismissive responses from the asshole union rep. ---
**Author:** ![TradersBASE](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tradersbase/32/5321_2.png) [@TradersBASE](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TradersBASE)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:30am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/15 "2011-11-22T08:30:21Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > Reading that article on WGRZ this morning made me sick, especially the dismissive responses from the asshole union rep. How can they even dismiss the facts here. Insanity. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:40am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/16 "2011-11-22T08:40:07Z")
> [@TradersBASE](#): > > How can they even dismiss the facts here. Insanity. Because they’re a public union who has the power to elect who ever they want, so they can flip the bird to the general public all they want. If a government finally grows a pair and takes some union power away they know the nationwide union brotherhood will organize and dump a bazillion dollars into the election like they did in Ohio and Wisconsin. ---
**Author:** ![Motocrossx23](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/motocrossx23/32/5120_2.png) [@Motocrossx23](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Motocrossx23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:46am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/17 "2011-11-22T08:46:28Z")
#firstworldissues ---
**Author:** ![TradersBASE](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tradersbase/32/5321_2.png) [@TradersBASE](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TradersBASE)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/18 "2011-11-22T08:54:14Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > Because they’re a public union who has the power to elect who ever they want, so they can flip the bird to the general public all they want. If a government finally grows a pair and takes some union power away they know the nationwide union brotherhood will organize and dump a bazillion dollars into the election like they did in Ohio and Wisconsin. That was meant to be rhetorical. LOL 😉 The unions are part of the government…a silent arm if you will. There can be no other explanation for what they get away with. Any other group would have been long gone. Def #1stworldissues Moto. I’ve argued with people that think we are entitled and guaranteed electricity and running water because we’re American. We in reality aren’t guaranteed anything and while the loss of those items isn’t likely…it is possible. ---
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/19 "2011-11-22T08:58:08Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > I’m very anti-union, but I can still see their very limited place in the PRIVATE sector (there should never be any such thing as a public sector union). > > The retail stores forcing people to give up their Thanksgiving so they can open at 10pm on Thanksgiving day is a great example. If the employees were more organized they could fight corporate BS like that. > > Unfortunately the minute they got organized like that they’d demand a minimum wage job like a cashier be able to support a family of 4 with 2 cars and a house in the suburbs and full medical plus retirement. > > You’re fucked either way. This, exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Carnut](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/carnut/32/7590_2.png) [@Carnut](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carnut)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539/20 "2011-11-22T12:20:03Z")
Unions had their place and still have their place. Whether it’s 1900 or 2100 people will always be greedy, so whether it’s corporations or the people working in it doesn’t really matter. I think there is a middle ground from working in dangerous conditions to banking overtime because you can and raking in a bloated salary. I agree with what JayS said about making people work 10pm on a thanksgiving that is bullshit, I’ve done it and it’s just wrong, all for the sake of profit… [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/old-school-uaw-guys/218539.md?page=2)