# Physics Question: Will the plane take off? (27 page debate on elisetalk)
**URL:** https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189
**Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic
**Created:** [February 15, 2006, 7:40am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189 "2006-02-15T07:40:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:03am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/61 "2006-02-15T09:03:38Z")
> [@AWDrifter](#):
>
> The conveyor belt is an irrelavent part of the equation.
> It is mentioned just to confuse you.
>
> The jet engines are pushing the mass of the plane forward.
> The jet engines don’t give a rat’s ass about the wheels or what they are doing.
I will keep quoting myself for the next 50 pages.:biglaugh:
---
### Author:  [@newman](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/newman)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/62 "2006-02-15T09:04:33Z")
> [@Deuce](#):
>
> i dont think it will take off, because the plane isnt actually moving against the air, it needs the air to pass under/over its wings to create enough lift to take off. the wheels will be moving fast enough at but there wont be enough air to create the lift
>
> if it is on a “treadmill” going 150mph and there is a 150mph headwind flying into the aircraft then yes, it could take off
READ THIS:
aside from bearing friction, which will negate for the sake of argument:
the treadmill has no way of applying force longitudinally to the plane.
do we all agree? example. Put a skateboard with really good bearings on a treadmill. Make it spin as fast as you want. how hard is it to hold the skatboard in place? not very. the action of the treadmill/wheel scenario cannot impose any force down the axis of the plane… the axis that the engines provide force in. Since there is NO FORCE holding the plane back, the thrust from the engines will cause the plane to move forward. Read that again. THE ONLY THING THAT CAN STOP THE PLANE FROM MOVING FORWARD WITH RESPECT TO A STATIONARY POINT (that means not on the treadmill) IS AN OPPOSING FORCE, THE TREADMILL/WHEEL CANNOT PROVIDE THIS FORCE.
---
### Author:  [@Pass\_McGass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Pass_McGass)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:10am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/63 "2006-02-15T09:10:17Z")
ughhh I dont even feel like explaining it anymore.
---
### Author:  [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/64 "2006-02-15T09:13:11Z")
conveyor belt will only affect the plane if the wheels are what is getting the power. This problem only means that the wheels are gonna be spinning twice as fast as usual.
EDIT: with respect to newmans response, the only thing that is really gonna apply the force needed to hold the plane back would be the wheels giving the plane the power to move, but they dont. Imagine if u were on a ppl mover like in an airport on a skateboard. U could stand still and the wheels would move under you. Then someone, who isnt on the ppl mover but next to it, grabs u and pushes u forward, ur still gonna move forward. like was quoted over and over. THE CONVEYOR BELT IS IRRELIVANT. If this was a car, then it would be a totally different story, but the wheels, and the driving force of the plane have nothing to do with each other.
---
### Author:  [@MaximaSE98](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MaximaSE98)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/65 "2006-02-15T09:13:48Z")
i think as long as there is air moving across the planes wings and flaps and ish are int he right position it will lift off…for howl ong it stays in the air is another question…to lazy to ready the whole thread
---
### Author:  [@66impalass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/66impalass)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:15am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/66 "2006-02-15T09:15:20Z")
> [@newman](#):
>
> READ THIS:
>
> aside from bearing friction, which will negate for the sake of argument:
>
> the treadmill has no way of applying force longitudinally to the plane.
> do we all agree? example. Put a skateboard with really good bearings on a treadmill. Make it spin as fast as you want. how hard is it to hold the skatboard in place? not very. the action of the treadmill/wheel scenario cannot impose any force down the axis of the plane… the axis that the engines provide force in. Since there is NO FORCE holding the plane back, the thrust from the engines will cause the plane to move forward. Read that again. THE ONLY THING THAT CAN STOP THE PLANE FROM MOVING FORWARD WITH RESPECT TO A STATIONARY POINT (that means not on the treadmill) IS AN OPPOSING FORCE, THE TREADMILL/WHEEL CANNOT PROVIDE THIS FORCE.
engineers\>\*
seriously people, the treadmill can never creat enough of a reaction to keep the plane from movie, the force that would be created by the thrust against the air particles would need and opposite force to keep it from movie, people do a free body diamgram than you can see what I am talking about. damniit: MS paint here I come.
Edit:worse thing ever, i think by just looking at the picture i actually confused myself.
P.s. plane will fly
---
### Author:  [@TurboTSi](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TurboTSi)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/67 "2006-02-15T09:16:49Z")
WTF did anyone read my post. I explained the whole thing already and it’s exactly what Newman just posted.
---
### Author:  [@JaysGreenLX](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JaysGreenLX)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/68 "2006-02-15T09:19:35Z")
Goddamnit, you people are making me John Kerry (flip flop, you replublicans know what I mean).
I was putting too much emphasis on the conveyor and wheels as AWDrifter said.
Now, does the plane take off faster if the conveyor belt is moving in the same direction as the plane?
---
### Author:  [@newman](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/newman)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/69 "2006-02-15T09:20:19Z")
> [@JaysGreenLX](#):
>
> Now, does the plane take off faster if the conveyor belt is moving in the same direction as the plane?
no, the wheels just don’t turn.
---
### Author:  [@STEALTTH](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/STEALTTH)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/70 "2006-02-15T09:22:22Z")
hmm, lets talk about catapults on aircraft carriers! Planes are majorly assisted by the catapult, yet once it is up to speed it takes off…
---
### Author:  [@JEG](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JEG)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/71 "2006-02-15T09:23:11Z")
wow…I just read thsi whole thing…im gonna take a nap now. My head hurts. (I never took physics), not saying I dont understand this shit, I just never learnd it in school.
---
### Author:  [@newman](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/newman)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/72 "2006-02-15T09:24:11Z")
> [@STEALTTH](#):
>
> hmm, lets talk about catapults on aircraft carriers! Planes are majorly assisted by the catapult, yet once it is up to speed it takes off…
catapult pushes on the chassis of the plane, force acting down center axis. again, treadmill cannot provide force in this direction.
---
### Author:  [@STEALTTH](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/STEALTTH)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/73 "2006-02-15T09:27:15Z")
this is true
---
### Author:  [@Xander](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Xander)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/74 "2006-02-15T09:28:36Z")
Some of these people would do great on an IQ test… :lol:
X…
---
### Author:  [@Tunerfreak](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Tunerfreak)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/75 "2006-02-15T09:28:43Z")
_\> [i]The conveyor belt is an irrelavent part of the equation. \> It is mentioned just to confuse you._
> _The jet engines are pushing the mass of the plane forward.
> The jet engines don’t give a rat’s ass about the wheels or what they are doing._
[/i]
_but the caoveyor belt it relavent it matches the speed of the wheels. the thrust the plane’s engines make move the plane and the wheels so if the wheels are going 1MPH the belt is going 1MPH it is never accelerating forward which does not allow air to go over the wings besides what the wind speed is at the moment; lift is what makes a plane take off. if there is no air flying over/underthe wings at the speed nessecery to take off they it will just be stationary._
_take a piece of paper and blow over the top of it, the paper will rise (lift on a wing of a plane) if its just wheels on it and say like a bottle rocket or something and place that on a tredmil set to match the speed of the wheels exactly it will just sit there_
---
### Author:  [@66impalass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/66impalass)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:29am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/76 "2006-02-15T09:29:01Z")
> [@newman](#):
>
> no, the wheels just don’t turn.
that is assuming high friction in the wheels, if wheel have almost no friction(tried spelling negligable but i can’t) it would be dependent of the force created by the thrust, assuming no friction the plane would sith there and not move, and the wheels spin backwards. with thrust applied it would depend on the speed of the aircraft relative to the speed of the conveyer, if the overall velocity is faster than teh speed of the conveyer, spin in foward direction, if overall velocity of the plane is slower than the conveyer the wheels in theory would spin backwards, so in theory you could have an aircraft take off with the wheels spinning backwards
---
### Author:  [@66impalass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/66impalass)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/77 "2006-02-15T09:31:16Z")
> [@Tunerfreak](#):
>
> _but the caoveyor belt it relavent it matches the speed of the wheels. the thrust the plane’s engines make move the plane and the wheels so if the wheels are going 1MPH the belt is going 1MPH it is never accelerating forward which does not allow air to go over the wings besides what the wind speed is at the moment; lift is what makes a plane take off. if there is no air flying over/underthe wings at the speed nessecery to take off they it will just be stationary._
>
> _take a piece of paper and blow over the top of it, the paper will rise (lift on a wing of a plane) if its just wheels on it and say like a bottle rocket or something and place that on a tredmil set to match the speed of the wheels exactly it will just sit there_
bah i think i am going to kill myself, so tell me how you would get the conveyer to match the speed of the plane, not the speed of the wheels, turn it up the wheels will spin quicker, and the plane would still have the same velocity relative to the earth. the wheels are an idependent entitty of the plane, they contribute no force to the overall movement of the plane.
---
### Author:  [@newman](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/newman)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/78 "2006-02-15T09:32:33Z")
> [@66impalass\`](#):
>
> that is assuming high friction in the wheels, if wheel have almost no friction(tried spelling negligable but i can’t) it would be dependent of the force created by the thrust, assuming no friction the plane would sith there and not move, and the wheels spin backwards. with thrust applied it would depend on the speed of the aircraft relative to the speed of the conveyer, if the overall velocity is faster than teh speed of the conveyer, spin in foward direction, if overall velocity of the plane is slower than the conveyer the wheels in theory would spin backwards, so in theory you could have an aircraft take off with the wheels spinning backwards
i was stating that the didn’t move only for the case of the conveyor exactly matching forward velocity of the plane.
and this thread is why we need karma. or an NYSPEED dunce cap.
---
### Author:  [@JEG](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JEG)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/79 "2006-02-15T09:32:49Z")
> [@Xander](#):
>
> Some of these people would do great on an IQ test… :lol:
>
> X…
lol. I understood it as soon as I read it, and I never took physics. its not hard to understand…just don’t ask me to explain it lol.
---
### Author:  [@Tunerfreak](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Tunerfreak)
#### Post date: [February 15, 2006, 9:42am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189/80 "2006-02-15T09:42:44Z")
> [@66impalass\`](#):
>
> bah i think i am going to kill myself, so tell me how you would get the conveyer to match the speed of the plane, not the speed of the wheels, turn it up the wheels will spin quicker, and the plane would still have the same velocity relative to the earth. the wheels are an idependent entitty of the plane, they contribute no force to the overall movement of the plane.
the wheels are part of the plane, its not floating in the air so the wheels move with the plane. yes they dont drive the plane the thrust does that but while gravity holds the plane down the wheels are connected to the plane which is touching the ground. how does a plane move down a normal runway if the wheels are not moving with the plane???
[Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189.md?page=3)
[Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/physics-question-will-the-plane-take-off-27-page-debate-on-elisetalk/8189.md?page=5)