# Rado's Scion F-wing **URL:** \ **Category:** Shift518 Automotive\ **Created:** [November 14, 2011, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321 "2011-11-14T08:33:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mafdark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mafdark/32/6322_2.png) [@Mafdark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mafdark)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/1 "2011-11-14T08:33:39Z")
I’ve argued this before but today I came across some comparative lap times so I thought I would share. P1: Chris Rado – Team Need For Speed WORLD Racing Scion tC – 1:45.320 (class record) ![http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Larry%20Chen%202/oct/gtasonoma/desktops/LAR9771sample.jpg](http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Larry%20Chen%202/oct/gtasonoma/desktops/LAR9771sample.jpg) Peter Cunningham Acura TSX Acura/HPD 1:45.158 ![http://www.autoguide.com/gallery/d/248956-3/10-wc-VIR-43r2.jpg](http://www.autoguide.com/gallery/d/248956-3/10-wc-VIR-43r2.jpg) Same course: ![http://www.world-challenge.com/files/tracks/thumbnails/facility_alms_web_460x460.jpg](http://www.world-challenge.com/files/tracks/thumbnails/facility_alms_web_460x460.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![KrazyKid](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/krazykid/32/6371_2.png) [@KrazyKid](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/KrazyKid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/2 "2011-11-14T08:47:56Z")
LOL. LESS WING! too much drag/vs needed downforce cost them the .162 ---
**Author:** ![RocketPunch](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rocketpunch/32/6429_2.png) [@RocketPunch](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RocketPunch)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/3 "2011-11-14T08:57:29Z")
Are those two cars even spec’d for the same series in the same class? ---
**Author:** ![Mafdark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mafdark/32/6322_2.png) [@Mafdark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mafdark)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 9:02am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/4 "2011-11-14T09:02:31Z")
> [@RocketPunch"](#): > > Are those two cars even spec’d for the same series in the same class? absolutely not. The tsx races in SCCA world challenge. > In race trim, our engines make upwards of 275hp, up from 201 stock, all using the unmodified production intake manifold and cylinder head. Being a production-based racing series, there isn’t much you can do to modify the cars in World Challenge. Most of it is safety related, but we can change springs, shocks, add bigger brakes and do a little engine work. The Scion runs in “Time Attack” so no other cars to get in its way and it’s in an “unlimited” class. AKA do whatever the hell you want. It’s mostly tube frame and is reported to have over 900hp. ---
**Author:** ![Wayne64SS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/wayne64ss/32/6365_2.png) [@Wayne64SS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Wayne64SS)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 9:14am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/5 "2011-11-14T09:14:19Z")
apples \> oranges. ---
**Author:** ![Mafdark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mafdark/32/6322_2.png) [@Mafdark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mafdark)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 9:15am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/6 "2011-11-14T09:15:22Z")
> [@Wayne64SS"](#): > > stock apples \> modified apples. try that. ---
**Author:** ![RocketPunch](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rocketpunch/32/6429_2.png) [@RocketPunch](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RocketPunch)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/7 "2011-11-14T10:21:24Z")
> [@Mafdark"](#): > > absolutely not. The tsx races in SCCA world challenge. That’s what I thought. ---
**Author:** ![KrazyKid](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/krazykid/32/6371_2.png) [@KrazyKid](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/KrazyKid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 10:26am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/8 "2011-11-14T10:26:17Z")
So wait a min. Assuming the front mount on the TC says its turbo, and last I checked turbos wernt stock, that makes that winged thing a modified class car… and the TSX being a stock class car. and the stock class car (tsx) was faster than the winged monster??? ---
**Author:** ![Mafdark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mafdark/32/6322_2.png) [@Mafdark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mafdark)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/9 "2011-11-14T10:33:29Z")
I’m sensing the point of my post has gone unnoticed. KK figured it out though: > [@KrazyKid"](#): > > the stock class car (tsx) was faster than the winged monster??? ---
**Author:** ![KrazyKid](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/krazykid/32/6371_2.png) [@KrazyKid](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/KrazyKid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/10 "2011-11-14T10:34:18Z")
Ball, I am on it. no homo ---
**Author:** ![SRS\_BZNS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/srs_bzns/32/6375_2.png) [@SRS\_BZNS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SRS_BZNS)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/11 "2011-11-14T11:39:36Z")
I think this may possibly come down to more being the driver and less the car or its set up. but Mafdark could be correct and it could be drag created by those wings on that track but I would imagine that they would do their job on a faster track where the 900hp would have the car moving faster than the tsx could ---
**Author:** ![Mafdark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mafdark/32/6322_2.png) [@Mafdark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mafdark)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/12 "2011-11-14T11:43:03Z")
> [@On another topic](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/37102/197): > > I think this may possibly come down to more being the driver and less the car or its set up. but Mafdark could be correct and it could be drag created by those wings on that track but I would imagine that they would do their job on a faster track where the 900hp would have the car moving faster than the tsx could That was actually kk who said that. I’m not jumping to any conclusions about the lap times being the same. At the same time it does prove my point that sack-riders of the f-wing (mostly speedhunters and fans) have long turned a blind eye to the fact that the F-wing has never been driven at circuits used for SCCA racing or similar or the fact that the F-wing holds all the “Unlimited FF” time attack records because it’s the only car in that class NOT because it has an enormous wing on the front of it. ---
**Author:** ![Boxersix](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/boxersix/32/6327_2.png) [@Boxersix](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Boxersix)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/13 "2011-11-14T12:41:56Z")
Only one way this can possibly be tested. One driver familiar with both cars, same day, same track. The driver is by far the biggest variable in this whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![GD3Skier](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/gd3skier/32/6400_2.png) [@GD3Skier](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/GD3Skier)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/14 "2011-11-14T13:05:58Z")
So what you are saying is not only is it hideous, but in this application it doesn’t work. Also wouldn’t a better test be two scions set up identically except one is wingless. Same driver same track same day. ---
**Author:** ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/15 "2011-11-14T13:23:14Z")
Wait a min, how are they remotely that close? Those TSXs make 310whp maybe and weigh 2800lbs? Doesnt the Scion thing make 800whp? What tires is the Scion on? Details! Total slow apples vs. ridic custom modded oranges. That Scion thing has never put in the kind of lap times it should be given it’s specs. ---
**Author:** ![Mafdark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mafdark/32/6322_2.png) [@Mafdark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mafdark)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/16 "2011-11-14T13:34:22Z")
I’m having a hard time finding any real details for specifics regarding that particular time attack. I did find this though: > We are proud to introduce the 2011 Team Need for Speed/ WORLD Racing Scion tC FWING 2.0, a masterfully engineered, pavement-shredding, front-wheel drive beast with a massive front wing, of course! The FWING 2.0 boasts a 2,500 lb. curb weight and produces up to 1,100 horsepower out of its 4 cylinder 2AR-FE engine. > With up to 1,100 horsepower and 1,000 ft. lbs. of torque on tap, the WORLD Racing Scion tC needed a drivetrain that could handle the abuse. The team looked no further than an Xtrac 6-speed sequential gearbox complete with a Tilton carbon clutch and Descendent Racing flywheel as their first line of Need for Speed: World Racing 2011 Scion tCdefense against the brutal power and torque coming from the engine. Once through the transmission, the power makes its way through an Xtrac limited-slip-differential and Mark Williams heavy duty axles before being transferred to the ground via **18”x 12” HRE Competition C95 wheels wrapped in massive 305mm wide Continental Extreme Contact DR race tires** on all four corners. ---
**Author:** ![Johawk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/johawk/32/6284_2.png) [@Johawk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Johawk)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/17 "2011-11-14T13:34:48Z")
Interesting… even if both cars handled the same the scion should still beat the Acura’s times with HP alone. Given all other variables were close to constant… Like previously stated. It would take one hell of a driver to test this theory. Also I know in video games I always got the best times when trying to hold back a competitive pack. This logic may not apply to professional drivers tho. ---
**Author:** ![Mafdark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mafdark/32/6322_2.png) [@Mafdark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mafdark)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/18 "2011-11-14T13:48:10Z")
interesting in car comparison (different tracks) [ame][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ROT3PNSjNk[/ame]](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ROT3PNSjNk%5B/ame%5D) [ame][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlSbTXFe01k[/ame]](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlSbTXFe01k%5B/ame%5D) ---
**Author:** ![Skidplate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Skidplate](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Skidplate)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/19 "2011-11-14T14:01:16Z")
> [@What is the most expensive Car you spotted driving in WNY?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-is-the-most-expensive-car-you-spotted-driving-in-wny/46547/77): > > Interesting… even if both cars handled the same the scion should still beat the Acura’s times with HP alone. Given all other variables were close to constant… Like previously stated. **It would take one hell of a driver to test this theory.** Also I know in video games I always got the best times when trying to hold back a competitive pack. This logic may not apply to professional drivers tho. CALLING THE STIG. ---
**Author:** ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321/20 "2011-11-14T14:20:02Z")
**Continental Extreme Contact DR** is a street tire, so that’s part of it. Still doesnt add up. The Realtime cars are hooked up for what they are, but the hardware isnt on the same level. HP is overrated but still matters, especially when one car has 3x+ as much. [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rados-scion-f-wing/261321.md?page=2)