# Rauh Welt
**URL:** https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140
**Category:** Shift518 Automotive
**Created:** [January 3, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140 "2009-01-03T15:21:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@cazwrx187](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cazwrx187)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 9:33am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/41 "2009-02-08T09:33:51Z")
Rauh Welt Begriff Hachi :excited
A little showy for my liking but awesome nonetheless.
> [@Other Hobbies](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/other-hobbies/13699/62):
>
> How do his cars actually do around a circuit though?
+1 Any videos out there?
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### Author:  [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/42 "2009-02-08T09:35:45Z")
^^ Green thing is hideous. Looks like a blind Michael J. Fox cut out the wheel wells.
All of the previous cars are stupid hawt except the double “look at me, I’m at HIN!” dive plane on the front of the orange car.
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### Author:  [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 9:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/43 "2009-02-08T09:38:11Z")
He was drunk when he build the green thing.
Mr. Track whore, are all the Porsche’s seem purpose build with those parts?
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### Author:  [@Boxersix](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Boxersix)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 9:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/44 "2009-02-08T09:38:56Z")
> [@JClark"](#):
>
> All of the previous cars are stupid hawt except the double “look at me, I’m at HIN!” dive plane on the front of the orange car.
F-you that 993 is hot shit!
discuss 😃
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### Author:  [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/45 "2009-02-08T09:40:06Z")
> [@(removed)](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/removed/13737/25):
>
> Mr. Track whore, are all the Porsche’s seem purpose build with those parts?
Beats me. Wider stance cars need major suspension changes to take advantage of it. Otherwise it’s just [lots] more drag.
IN for detailed underside pics.
---
### Author:  [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/46 "2009-02-08T09:44:16Z")
Well it’s also lots more grip as instant gratification. Then again it’s offset by the extra unsprung weight.
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### Author:  [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 9:49am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/47 "2009-02-08T09:49:28Z")
> [@Callout: 05OrangeSS](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/callout-05orangess/13711/15):
>
> F-you that 993 is hot shit!
>
> discuss 😃
Hot yes. But that second dive plane up there is just showy. Shame on you Rauiohuaoisd Waaualt.
> [@anyone have a lowrider?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/anyone-have-a-lowrider/13750/5):
>
> Well it’s also lots more grip as instant gratification. Then again it’s offset by the extra unsprung weight.
That kind of huge increase in tire width alone makes for a increase in max sustained lateral g’s, but thats only part of the equation. Simply putting spacers on hubs and using different offset wheels doesnt fully take advantage of a wider stance. Of course if you’re going to redesign all that, you’d only take the time to do it if it was track/race only. Are these faggy lot monkey street cars or cars for driving?
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### Author:  [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/48 "2009-02-08T10:14:55Z")
> [@So I smoked a cig tonight](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-smoked-a-cig-tonight/13744/25):
>
> Are these faggy lot monkey street cars or cars for driving?
That’s what I want to know as well. IN for underside pics as well.
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### Author:  [@Boxersix](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Boxersix)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/49 "2009-02-08T10:15:29Z")
> [@So I smoked a cig tonight](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-smoked-a-cig-tonight/13744/25):
>
> Hot yes. But that second dive plane up there is just showy. Shame on you Rauiohuaoisd Waaualt.
>
> That kind of huge increase in tire width alone makes for a increase in max sustained lateral g’s, but thats only part of the equation. Simply putting spacers on hubs and using different offset wheels doesnt fully take advantage of a wider stance. Of course if you’re going to redesign all that, you’d only take the time to do it if it was track/race only. Are these faggy lot monkey street cars or cars for driving?
hehe, I know, was just stirring the pot…😃
RW doesn’t do much in the susp development. Typical 911 mod include full monoball upgrades, camber and castor shim plates,diff spring rate, etc. Just basic shit really. The rear design of the later 911’s and 964(non torsion bar setups) is a close resemblance to your m-car setup. Wheel ratios vs spring ratios are not 1:1 which can make for some tricky tuning in some cases. It is common practice to shove are much rubber as you can fit under the fenders on the 911’s(pre 996) with a full monoball suspension and some GOOD dampers. they chassis just seems to respond well to the changes without too much of a headache.
Most guys setup 911’s for stupid rear grip to counter their tail happiness tendency, but we know it creates a host of other issues. 911 are a different type of car to drive on the track and really take a little learning curve to get down. The roll dynamics of that rear engine setup toss wrenches into the mix. It was “the” chassis I learned to track in and was notably different when I went form that to the 944’s.
I should get you some seat time in Mikes RSA this year for comparison. Interested?
---
### Author:  [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 10:22am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/50 "2009-02-08T10:22:15Z")
Engine is still in the wrong place, so it’s got form \> function :ninja
Can of worms has been opened.
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### Author:  [@Fn\_Skanks](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fn_Skanks)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 10:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/51 "2009-02-08T10:23:05Z")
i posted that silvia in the badass auto pics thread many months ago, but it still rocks.
thanks for all the nice backgrounds!
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### Author:  [@Boxersix](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Boxersix)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/52 "2009-02-08T10:33:52Z")
> [@Vovchandr"](#):
>
> Engine is still in the wrong place, so it’s got form \> function :ninja
>
> Can of worms has been opened.
talks like that and you might just end up with a wrong way engine miata in the near future :lol
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### Author:  [@LKSi](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LKSi)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/53 "2009-02-08T11:34:01Z")
A little late on this… but it’s a shame they painted that flat black silvia
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### Author:  [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 11:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/54 "2009-02-08T11:44:27Z")
> [@FS: 92-95 Civic/93-97 Del Sol OEM Front Lip](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fs-92-95-civic-93-97-del-sol-oem-front-lip/13639/3):
>
> hehe, I know, was just stirring the pot…😃
>
> RW doesn’t do much in the susp development. Typical 911 mod include full monoball upgrades, camber and castor shim plates,diff spring rate, etc. Just basic shit really. The rear design of the later 911’s and 964(non torsion bar setups) is a close resemblance to your m-car setup. Wheel ratios vs spring ratios are not 1:1 which can make for some tricky tuning in some cases. It is common practice to shove are much rubber as you can fit under the fenders on the 911’s(pre 996) with a full monoball suspension and some GOOD dampers. they chassis just seems to respond well to the changes without too much of a headache.
>
> Most guys setup 911’s for stupid rear grip to counter their tail happiness tendency, but we know it creates a host of other issues. 911 are a different type of car to drive on the track and really take a little learning curve to get down. The roll dynamics of that rear engine setup toss wrenches into the mix. It was “the” chassis I learned to track in and was notably different when I went form that to the 944’s.
>
> I should get you some seat time in Mikes RSA this year for comparison. Interested?
That’s kinda disappointing. I was hoping they’d have some crazy race engineering in there. Bolt on suspension changes for stuff like that, while cool (it’s the only thing on my car as per the buzzkill rules) are hardly taking advantage of the widebody coolness. Beyond that, it’s huge money, and I’m sure the RW cars arent cheap to begin with. If someone was going to spend all that AND wanted proper functioning pure suspension, they’d buy a Cup car (or two). \*\*\*Edit: Not knocking the RW cars, they are hella cool.
+1 on being a different car to drive. I’ve been out riding with a handful of fast drivers in Porsches and its a different game. We spend the better part of 2 days discussing the most minor differences in driving one to the limit as oppsed to a “standard” FR car or motorsports MR race car. Very cool stuff. Pat Long wrote an article about it in the last issue of GRM. It’s easy for anyone, of any skill, to throw out buzzwords from Rennlist in the paddock but I’d say PL’s thoughts have a liiiiiittle more merit. :bowdown
And hell yes I’d love to take Mike’s RSA for a rip on the condition that he drives my car and we all spend a few hours arguing about it about beers.
> [@Vovchandr"](#):
>
> Engine is still in the wrong place, so it’s got form \> function
+1. Take that, Adam, you antiquated purist!
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### Author:  [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/55 "2009-02-08T11:52:32Z")
While I have these pics handy, here’s stock suspension geometry on an E36 BMW:
Here’s an E36 BMW with proper front geometry for a widebody:
Picture from the other side, but you get the idea. Custom mounts at very different angles, very different heights.
Because most cars have fenders that are different heights relative to their rake, in order to get the car to look right w/ a widebody they have to mess with one end of the car (again, in E36 BMW world, they SLAM the rear of the car). It looks correct in relation to the “new” fender, but underneath, it’s all sorts of messed up. Widebody cars without any other geometry changes will often handle worse than before.
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### Author:  [@Mafdark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mafdark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/56 "2009-02-08T12:12:57Z")
woah, wait a minute. Are those suspension changes simply to punch the tires out without the use of spacers…
Or is this the type of supporting mod that is required for a much wider tire with much lower offset?
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### Author:  [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/57 "2009-02-08T12:15:32Z")
> [@bored...got ditched and made a vid](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/bored-got-ditched-and-made-a-vid/13745/6):
>
> woah, wait a minute. Are those suspension changes simply to punch the tires out without the use of spacers…
>
> Or is this the type of supporting mod that is required for a much wider tire with much lower offset?
Those two things are largely the same. Yes to both, more so for the 2nd one.
The goal is a wider stance w/ wider rubber. The widebody just covers it all to reduce drag (but it’s still a huge drag increase over stock).
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### Author:  [@Mafdark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mafdark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 12:17pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/58 "2009-02-08T12:17:24Z")
absolutely. but really the two are not the same, the location of the center of the tire is completely different for the geometry.
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### Author:  [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/59 "2009-02-08T12:22:47Z")
If all your concerned is is the **center** of the tire, then spacers alone will push the center line further away from stock than a wider tire/lower offset wheel will assuming the same outer edge (tire out flush with the new wider fender). Moving wheels out farther away from the center of the car acts like a lever. It’s like using a breaker bar and increasing the force that the suspension is supposed to control.
The point is the wheel, or source of force against the suspension from the road, is further away than stock, or the point at which the suspension was designed to work from.
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### Author:  [@Mafdark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mafdark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/rauh-welt/241140/60 "2009-02-08T12:24:49Z")
> [@Why do Grand Am owners think their car is fast?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/why-do-grand-am-owners-think-their-car-is-fast/13289/57):
>
> The point is the wheel, or source of force against the suspension from the road, is further away than stock, or the point at which the suspension was designed to work from.
What exactly is the source of force against the suspension then? Thats what I’m not getting…
center of wheel? outside edge? inside edge? What do you work with there?
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