# Ready for a per-mile gas tax? **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [February 20, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523 "2009-02-20T06:52:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/81 "2011-05-18T06:54:18Z")
> [@yeamabu](#): > > Wasnt the purpose of them making a regulation for automakers to produce a mpg average to reduce the cost for people and how much they were paying No, it wasn’t. > [@yeamabu](#): > > and to limit the amount of oil used. Yes, it was. If it weren’t for the fact that oil is a limited resource the government wouldn’t give a shit if you wanted to drive a 4mpg land yacht 50k a year and need a mortgage to pay for gas. Changing the tax to per-mile is just a way to for them to maintain the current tax income without having to keep raising the per gallon tax rate every year our average MPG goes up. No politician wants to have to keep revisiting the political hotbutton issue of raising gasoline taxes every couple of years as the new EPA MPG regs keep cutting the number of gallons used. > [@Shockwave179](#): > > it seems like this article is saying that they could implement this new tax on top of the gasoline tax (potentially). > > I just don’t see this going down a great road. People will try and get around this with odometer rollbacks and it could lead to GPS tracking for enforcement like you said. I am just really not fond of this idea whatsoever. Like I said earlier, I don’t see how they could ever pass this to be added on top of the current gasoline tax. It’s political suicide. The odometer thing is the biggest issue I see. But when odometer fraud starts becoming a tax evasion level offense I’m not sure how many people are going to take that risk. It would be pretty easy for car manufacturers to start recording miles multiple ways and tie those systems into things like ABS making it more difficult to disable. Plus more and more people are going ez-pass for their tolls so that’s another easy way to audit a gross abuser. ---
**Author:** ![TsiTalon](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tsitalon/32/5012_2.png) [@TsiTalon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TsiTalon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 6:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/82 "2011-05-18T06:57:26Z")
Implementation will be tricky and will probably cause more harm than good. In a perfect world this concept makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![mike125k](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mike125k/32/7282_2.png) [@mike125k](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/mike125k)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/83 "2011-05-18T07:00:11Z")
I don’t see anyone asking this question. If they tax per mile, just how much will it cost to create a whole new govt agency to record each vehicle’s mileage, send out invoices, process it, do audits, etc? Based on our current track record my guess will be a whole lot! I’m sure the Dem’s will push for it since it kills three birds with one stone; bigger government, more taxes, and some job creation. With a flat gas tax the administrative costs have to be a TON less. ---
**Author:** ![Shockwave179](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/shockwave179/32/7496_2.png) [@Shockwave179](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Shockwave179)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 7:03am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/84 "2011-05-18T07:03:19Z")
> [@mike125k](#): > > I don’t see anyone asking this question. If they tax per mile, just how much will it cost to create a whole new govt agency to record each vehicle’s mileage, send out invoices, process it, do audits, etc? Based on our current track record my guess will be a whole lot! I’m sure the Dem’s will push for it since it kills three birds with one stone; bigger government, more taxes, and some job creation. With a flat gas tax the administrative costs have to be a TON less. That is a pretty legitimate point I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![TsiTalon](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tsitalon/32/5012_2.png) [@TsiTalon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TsiTalon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 7:05am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/85 "2011-05-18T07:05:12Z")
^^ valid point. If they did it based on your odometer reading annually, the administrative cost wouldn’t be too high I wouldn’t think. However it does open the doors to more fraud. > [@JayS](#): > > The odometer thing is the biggest issue I see. But when odometer fraud starts becoming a tax evasion level offense I’m not sure how many people are going to take that risk. It would be pretty easy for car manufacturers to start recording miles multiple ways and tie those systems into things like ABS making it more difficult to disable. Plus more and more people are going ez-pass for their tolls so that’s another easy way to audit a gross abuser. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![38stang](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/38stang/32/7479_2.png) [@38stang](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/38stang)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 7:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/86 "2011-05-18T07:13:00Z")
Fuck this, I drive 25K a year at least. Here’s and idea, stop the gas gouging by the gas and oil companies manking BILLIONS per qurater, get the price of gas back down to $2 a gallon and then they can throw a $0.50 tax on it for all we care and get their money. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 7:26am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/87 "2011-05-18T07:26:59Z")
You guys talking about fraud also have to remember we’re not taking about huge sums of money here. Lets say you drive 30k miles a year and get 25mpg. 1200 gallons of gas x .184 = $220.80 a year in gasoline tax. You trade in your car and get a nice new EPA friendly 35mpg car and your tax bill goes down to $157.71 a year in gasoline tax. You’re still driving the same amount, using the highways the same amount, and the government still has the maintain the same amount of roads on those tax dollars. Lets say the government wants to be fair and only get the extra $63 they were getting before. Are you really going to risk tax evasion to save $63? ---
**Author:** ![focusinprogress](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/focusinprogress/32/7227_2.png) [@focusinprogress](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/focusinprogress)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 8:17am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/88 "2011-05-18T08:17:13Z")
I think the other thing some of the opposers to the argument arent realizing is that IF IN FACT they ditch the flat tax on gas, and you get a car that gets 35mpg+ you are going to come up less of a loss for the per-mile tax. lets say you drive a 25mpg… lets run with $4 a gallon… you drive 25k a yr. Thats $4000 annual fuel cost, with $736 of that in highway tax. If they charged you $736 a yr for mileage taxes, and gas was $3.26 per gallon without the taxes…thats an even trade because your fuel costs would be $3260. If you went and purchased a new vehicle that got 35mpg you still save money at the pump because your fuel costs would then be $2328.57, a savings of $931.43, which cancels out the flat tax of $736 and puts $195 back in your pocket. On the other side of the coin, if the tax remained in the gas price…the new 35mpg car would save you more money by a little over $200…but I think you would more than make up for that in the gas price for things like lawnmowers, snowblowers, dirtbikes, snowmobiles, boats, etc… I think it’s a pretty decent alternative, however I think all it is really going to do is yeild highways the same amount of money and move the cost from one place to another…the only place where they could GAIN money is on people driving electric cars that arent currently paying ANYTHING in highway tax’s due to not purchasing gas…yet if they remove the tax from gas they lose the money coming from the same things like lawnmowers, snowblowers, dirtbikes, snowmobiles, boats, etc… All in all, I think its just a different way of acheiving the same money…only plus is it might create jobs but that’s about all I see in it. ---
**Author:** ![FadetoBlack](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fadetoblack/32/6118_2.png) [@FadetoBlack](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/FadetoBlack)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/89 "2011-05-18T08:35:26Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > You guys talking about fraud also have to remember we’re not taking about huge sums of money here. > > Lets say you drive 30k miles a year and get 25mpg. 1200 gallons of gas x .184 = $220.80 a year in gasoline tax. > > You trade in your car and get a nice new EPA friendly 35mpg car and your tax bill goes down to $157.71 a year in gasoline tax. You’re still driving the same amount, using the highways the same amount, and the government still has the maintain the same amount of roads on those tax dollars. Lets say the government wants to be fair and only get the extra $63 they were getting before. Are you really going to risk tax evasion to save $63? You’re right in that all this is supposed to do is squeeze the same amount of money out of an American car fleet that is becoming more fuel efficient. They had to find a way to get the same amount when Americans in general are going to be using less gas to drive the same miles. I don’t think the government cares about giving us a break with lawnmowers, boats, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Garick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8797f3/32.png) [@Garick](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Garick)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/90 "2011-05-18T09:19:41Z")
> [@FadetoBlack](#): > > You’re right in that all this is supposed to do is squeeze the same amount of money out of an American car fleet that is becoming more fuel efficient. They had to find a way to get the same amount when Americans in general are going to be using less gas to drive the same miles. > > I don’t think the government cares about giving us a break with lawnmowers, boats, etc. agreed… If the tax rate is equivalent to what it is now, your car is getting the same mileage and we leave out recreational vehicles how is it any different? drive more miles = use more gas = pay more taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Skurge](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/skurge/32/7285_2.png) [@Skurge](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Skurge)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/91 "2011-05-18T10:03:08Z")
time to start driving the subaru around, the speedo only works 10% of the time, and the mileage is a good 100K or so off of what it should be lol and i easily drive over 30K a year between work and for myself ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/92 "2011-05-18T10:12:49Z")
> **[Why Obama's plan to tax cars by the mile is wrong](https://jalopnik.com/why-obamas-plan-to-tax-cars-by-the-mile-is-wrong-5798915)** > > A draft of a transportation bill written by the Obama administration sets out a plan for taxing drivers for every mile they drive. The idea has backers in Congress who say fuel taxes won't keep paying for roads much longer. It won't work. But here's... > There’s a basic nugget of fairness to the idea; people who use highways more should pay their fair share. But making it a reality is far more complex — so much so that it would create far more problems than it solves. ---
**Author:** ![Carnut](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/carnut/32/7590_2.png) [@Carnut](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carnut)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/93 "2011-05-18T15:13:25Z")
If this tax is cumulatively more than the 18.6/gal tax I could see this pushing up the cost of goods shipped by truck. ---
**Author:** ![challengermike](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/challengermike/32/5106_2.png) [@challengermike](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/challengermike)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/94 "2011-05-18T20:36:34Z")
Looks like everybody will be driving around DONK cars and monster trucks just to keep the mpg down,lol. ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/95 "2015-03-10T15:50:33Z")
[http://www.autonews.com/article/20150306/OEM05/150309871/oregon-prepares-nations-first-per-mile-road-tax](http://www.autonews.com/article/20150306/OEM05/150309871/oregon-prepares-nations-first-per-mile-road-tax) Starting up in Oregon. > Oregon is giving its drivers a choice: pay the gas tax at the pump or pay a flat 1.5 cents per mile driven. > Here’s how it works. > Intelligent Mechatronic Systems will provide a device that plugs into a vehicle’s on-board diagnostics port to gather mileage data used to determine the usage charge. > Drivers who participate in the road-usage charge program will still pay the gas tax at the pump. But at the end of each month, Sanef ITS and Intelligent Mechatronic Systems will use mileage and fuel-consumption data to compare the 1.5-cent-per-mile tax owed against what the driver paid in gas taxes at the pump. > The companies will provide the results to the state Department of Transportation, which oversees that tax revenue. Participants will then receive either a rebate, or an invoice for per-mile taxes due. :tif: ---
**Author:** ![LZ1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LZ1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LZ1)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/96 "2015-03-10T15:51:44Z")
Yikes I would love to see what other data they gather ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/97 "2015-03-10T16:16:07Z")
> [@LZ](#): > > Yikes I would love to see what other data they gather They can apparently get fuel consumption data, maybe they’ll know when you’re roll racing on zee highway… ---
**Author:** ![articzap](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/articzap/32/7361_2.png) [@articzap](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/articzap)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/98 "2015-03-10T16:59:13Z")
Fuel consumption data is wildly off on my truck. It always tell me how many gallons I use between fill ups, but its usually at least a gallon off. ---
**Author:** ![Bastinado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bastinado](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Bastinado)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/99 "2015-03-10T18:00:45Z")
They should do it at inspection. Once a year, does it for non-OBD2 vehicles and electric and gas. Doesn’t cost 10s of millions in taxpayer money to institute? Don’t get inspected? then they can al capone your ass on tax evasion. get those hoopdie piles off the road. ---
**Author:** ![jimmyfloyd](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jimmyfloyd/32/3077_2.png) [@jimmyfloyd](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/jimmyfloyd)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 10:30am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523/100 "2015-03-11T10:30:45Z")
Am I thinking about it wrong, or will the Per-mile tax penalize those hybrid drivers who get more MPG than the current gas tax would? I understand that it might be a better, more fair usage tax in the long run, but why would a driver of a car who gets excellent MPG try this program? [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ready-for-a-per-mile-gas-tax/212523.md?page=6)