# Reasons why GM and American cars kick ass **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [October 11, 2008, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274 "2008-10-11T09:13:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![IanK](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/iank/32/5016_2.png) [@IanK](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/IanK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/41 "2008-10-11T12:04:18Z")
> [@rj-92](#): > > CTS \> than 3 series. You could argue that the CTS is a direct competitor to the 5 series at the 3 series cost. If it wasn’t for the media fed, closed minded perception of every “my new haircut” DB that needs to be seen in a BMW Caddy could sell the CTS at 5 series prices and make hella cash on every one. > > The point is the american public is sooo fucking ignorant they buy any BS shoved down their throat by the marketing ads, be it about auto’s or politics (hence latest presidential polls, whole nother can of worms and i digress though). > > People are too ignorant and lazy and just stoopind to go out and educate them selves about which is the better car, rather buy into the hype that the BMW is the shizznit cuz chicks dig me in one, so it must be better. example: yourself. No No sir, I have my own non media aided opinion, I dont enjoy driving Gm fail attempts at luxury and sport, and for ex the CTS since the have been out for a few years now, I have had the…“opportunity” to drive them with more than 50k on them, and all I can say is DISASTER, I will say though it doesn’t help there cause that most of the people that buy them are dirtbags who smoke in them and trash them hard. ---
**Author:** ![bigwoode](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bigwoode/32/5175_2.png) [@bigwoode](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bigwoode)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/42 "2008-10-11T12:05:07Z")
I think all cars have potential to be shitty… Routine maintained and up-kept cars usually prove to be reliable in the long run, and vice versa for neglected cars, both import and domestic! But if I have two cars in front of me, a 1996 Honda Civic for $4500, and a 1996 Saturn SL for $1000, both with 150k and the same previous owner (hypothetical, obviously), you better believe I will take the risk ---
**Author:** ![TORQDSS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/torqdss/32/5125_2.png) [@TORQDSS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TORQDSS)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/43 "2008-10-11T12:05:10Z")
> [@IanK](#): > > Because they get good MPG, they have awesome warranties, and our poor citizens can afford them. as far as the problems go well that sux, I’ll give it to ya there, but IMO there are ups and owns to buying a car,If I was buying a car Id take my chance with the BMW instead of having to sit in a cadillac every day and that’s ok. I’ve been drinking the GM Company Koolaid my whole life so I’m extremely biased. My point in this thread is that no one ever says anything good about American cars because most people are too ignorant. The media has said nothing positive so people aren’t looking at the facts, they just jump right on the bandwagon. 20 years ago GM, Ford, Chrysler etc. made cars and trucks that were junk but not anymore. The media and public just have not caught on yet. There is a reason more than one manufacturer exists, not everyone likes the same thing. At least your educated and have reasons behind your ideas, unlike most people I talk to. People still walk in the dealership and tell me we make $10,000 a vehicle…:roflpicard:. if that were the case I’d be taking a Ferrari to track days, not an 8 year old Camaro. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/44 "2008-10-11T12:05:34Z")
> [@misteroman$$$](#): > > Tell you what I’ll give you $3000 for every 04 GP you or anyone else on this board can bring me that is not smashed or over 100K miles.Bring me 10 You get $30K.Either the person that MAY have traded in the car was high or drunk or the car was was smashed and had 200K on it.That is no where close to what the cars value is. > I bet for 3 50k mile 04 GP’s I could buy 97 911 instead of a 97 240sx it was a 2004 with 204,000 km’s on it, so about 125k miles, traded in at a local toyota dealer… book value $2,500. this was maybe 2 months ago max. i dont disagree with the fact that american cars are decent these days, but you cannot argue with residual values. Fact is, as bad an investment as a car usually is, it is still a significant investment. When your Ford’s buy out is $4k higher than it’s resale value, where as an Accord / Camry buy out is at or a bit below it’s resale it makes perfect sense that people would switch to the Toyota. You STILL cannot get a decent IS300 for under $10k… whereas even maxima’s of the same gen are half the price and newer G35’s are still cheaper than 3 year older IS300’s… and that is just among upper model imports. When you throw the Oldsmobile into the mix it gets even worse. frig, even the Kia that i bought for my wife is holding value like a toyota right now… that matters. I work closely with alot of the fleet companies in Canada and have had candid conversations about what the big 3 are doing to the Enterprise’s and Discount’s of the world… it’s getting bad but it will get worse. There are some positives though… some of our guys in fleet cars had them taken away… ford took back the Fusions from the fleets to maintain resale value on them. On the flip side… all rental companies are having to keep their vehicles longer, in many cases more than twice as long (by mileage) in order to realise less of a loss or to realise them sporadically over an accounting period… The rental fleets are diversifying their fleets away from domestics because of the investment impact… they are moving to nissans and Volvos and Hyundais more and more… but look what it does to those resale values… case in point is the Maxima… you can get 2-3 year old maxima’s for 50% of retail now. ---
**Author:** ![rj-92](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rj-92/32/7310_2.png) [@rj-92](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/rj-92)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/45 "2008-10-11T12:09:50Z")
> [@IanK](#): > > No No sir, I have my own non media aided opinion, I dont enjoy driving Gm fail attempts at luxury and sport, and for ex the CTS since the have been out for a few years now, I have had the…“opportunity” to drive them with more than 50k on them, and all I can say is DISASTER, I will say though it doesn’t help there cause that most of the people that buy them are dirtbags who smoke in them and trash them hard. I’m refering to the current version that came out in 08, so your arugment that, “they have been around for a few years” is wrong. And would highly doubt that there are that many with 50k+ on them. You are obviously refering to the 03-07 version. In which case I would concure that the car had some issues and is probably inferior to a similar year BMW. That being said, that car was designed and developed in the late 90s early 00s, so lets get current here and talk about what is currently being built, or we can compare cars that were built 10, 20 or 30 years ago that have no relevance to the current new car marketplace. ---
**Author:** ![IanK](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/iank/32/5016_2.png) [@IanK](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/IanK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/46 "2008-10-11T12:10:03Z")
> [@TORQDSS](#): > > and that’s ok. I’ve been drinking the GM Company Koolaid my whole life so I’m extremely biased. My point in this thread is that no one ever says anything good about American cars because most people are too ignorant. The media has said nothing positive so people aren’t looking at the facts, they just jump right on the bandwagon. > > 20 years ago GM, Ford, Chrysler etc. made cars and trucks that were junk but not anymore. The media and public just have not caught on yet. > > There is a reason more than one manufacturer exists, not everyone likes the same thing. At least your educated and have reasons behind your ideas, unlike most people I talk to. People still walk in the dealership and tell me we make $10,000 a vehicle…:roflpicard:. if that were the case I’d be taking a Ferrari to track days, not an 8 year old Camaro. HaHa I always like your level headed opinion on things, I will say that the media does trash them hard, and I will say its all about personal preference, so when buying a car, drive the competition and make the decision based upon that, Me personally I hate “most” of what GM puts out and its disgusts me further to hear people talk about there trailblazer as though it a 70K car instead of something that hauls there family around safely and cost effectively, thats just my .02 though. ---
**Author:** ![TORQDSS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/torqdss/32/5125_2.png) [@TORQDSS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TORQDSS)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/47 "2008-10-11T12:10:52Z")
and bing brings up a very important point when it comes to resale value. if this were Japan, Korea, Europe the cars that are foreign here will have been impacted by fleet use there but they won’t in the US. Because of the amount of fleet vehicles the resale values get impacted immensely. I know because we base alot of trade in values off the auction prices and the auctions are always loaded with off-rentals, company cars, govt. vehicles etc that are usually quite inexpensive. ---
**Author:** ![IanK](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/iank/32/5016_2.png) [@IanK](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/IanK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/48 "2008-10-11T12:12:35Z")
> [@rj-92](#): > > I’m refering to the current version that came out in 08, so your arugment that, “they have been around for a few years” is wrong. And would highly doubt that there are that many with 50k+ on them. > > You are obviously refering to the 03-07 version. In which case I would concure that the car had some issues and is probably inferior to a similar year BMW. > > That being said, that car was designed and developed in the late 90s early 00s, so lets get current here and talk about what is currently being built, or we can compare cars that were built 10, 20 or 30 years ago that have no relevance to the current new car marketplace. OK still not quite to the point where Id consider it over the competition but tis closer, I’ll say that ---
**Author:** ![TORQDSS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/torqdss/32/5125_2.png) [@TORQDSS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TORQDSS)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/49 "2008-10-11T12:15:10Z")
> [@IanK](#): > > HaHa I always like your level headed opinion on things, I will say that the media does trash them hard, and I will say its all about personal preference, so when buying a car, drive the competition and make the decision based upon that, Me personally I hate “most” of what GM puts out and its disgusts me further to hear people talk about there trailblazer as though it a 70K car instead of something that hauls there family around safely and cost effectively, thats just my .02 though. I am usually told that trades are “loaded” by customers and then I get in them to find they have no leather, no disc changer, no sunroof etc so I have to agree. Btw, thanks. I try to stay pretty level, although I can get pretty heated at times. ---
**Author:** ![TORQDSS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/torqdss/32/5125_2.png) [@TORQDSS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TORQDSS)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/50 "2008-10-11T12:16:08Z")
> [@IanK](#): > > OK still not quite to the point where Id consider it over the competition but tis closer, I’ll say that I’d like you to come drive a new CTS for the day… you’ll come to the dark side afterwards, trust me. ---
**Author:** ![joelster](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joelster/32/7258_2.png) [@joelster](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/joelster)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/51 "2008-10-11T12:21:30Z")
Who buys a car based solely on residual value? You have got to be kidding me. Such a weak counterpoint. Show me a guy who traded in a 4 year old Grand Prix for $2500, and i’ll show you a salesman’s dream (a total pushover customer). ---
**Author:** ![IanK](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/iank/32/5016_2.png) [@IanK](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/IanK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/52 "2008-10-11T12:24:44Z")
> [@TORQDSS](#): > > I’d like you to come drive a new CTS for the day… you’ll come to the dark side afterwards, trust me. I’ll take you up on that offer, but I will say I Have driven the new CTS, Its good, just not quite as sharp as the 3 or 5 series (even though the new 5 series suck), I have a more “performance” minded style of driving I guess, so IDK I just notice things differently than most buyers, so ignore my opinion lol, but I’ll say its a good attempt, you wont see it in my driveway though ---
**Author:** ![Slopoke](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/slopoke/32/7248_2.png) [@Slopoke](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Slopoke)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/53 "2008-10-11T12:29:24Z")
Honeslty i love german cars to death, but caddy interior quality does out perform all Euro luxy interiors to me… Mercedes S500 ![http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo306/caltobias/benz_interior.jpg](http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo306/caltobias/benz_interior.jpg) BMW 3series ![http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo306/caltobias/untitled.jpg](http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo306/caltobias/untitled.jpg) Caddy CTS ![http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo306/caltobias/2009_ctsv_interior.jpg](http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo306/caltobias/2009_ctsv_interior.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![IanK](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/iank/32/5016_2.png) [@IanK](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/IanK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/54 "2008-10-11T12:34:32Z")
Hey it does look spectacular, but its the feel for me, and the caddy is pretty close,but thats one car OK redefine the brand then we’ll see and IMO all that flash is Meh, nice but Meh for me, Id rather go the BMW inconspicuous route. but again its up to you as a buyer, thats just my .02 ---
**Author:** ![Gus](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/gus/32/5112_2.png) [@Gus](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Gus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/55 "2008-10-11T12:36:25Z")
Ian, want to have buttsecs in the back of cky’s vw with some performance minded style driving magazines? ---
**Author:** ![IanK](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/iank/32/5016_2.png) [@IanK](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/IanK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/56 "2008-10-11T12:38:15Z")
> [@Gus](#): > > Ian, want to have buttsecs in the back of cky’s vw with some performance minded style driving magazines? UGH, Euro tuner, GAWD im getting hot just thinking about it lol, are you a, as MPD says “closet VW fggt” too? ---
**Author:** ![jt76](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jt76/32/5100_2.png) [@jt76](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/jt76)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/57 "2008-10-11T12:38:48Z")
In the end, most Domestic guys wouldnt own anything else and same for the import crowd. Its just retarded when people make stupid statements, most of the time when they are driving some early - mid 90’s import econo box that they think is a performance car. Thats my $.02 ---
**Author:** ![IanK](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/iank/32/5016_2.png) [@IanK](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/IanK)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/58 "2008-10-11T12:40:54Z")
> [@jt76](#): > > In the end, most Domestic guys wouldnt own anything else and same for the import crowd. Its just retarded when people make stupid statements, most of the time when they are driving some early - mid 90’s import econo box that they think is a performance car. Thats my $.02 HaHa please dont get me started on how many times I’ve tried to explain to people that their econo box POS isnt a sports car ---
**Author:** ![Gus](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/gus/32/5112_2.png) [@Gus](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Gus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/59 "2008-10-11T12:43:25Z")
> [@IanK](#): > > UGH, Euro tuner, GAWD im getting hot just thinking about it lol, are you a, as MPD says “closet VW fggt” too? :roflpicard: Na, I can’t stand wheel hop. Just a closet LT1 fggt. ---
**Author:** ![jt76](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jt76/32/5100_2.png) [@jt76](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/jt76)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274/60 "2008-10-11T12:44:45Z")
> [@IanK](#): > > HaHa please dont get me started on how many times I’ve tried to explain to people that their econo box POS isnt a sports car I gave up a long time ago. Ignorance is bliss. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/reasons-why-gm-and-american-cars-kick-ass/56274.md?page=4)