# Sad day... unions killed the Twinkie
**URL:** https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233
**Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic
**Created:** [November 16, 2012, 6:54am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233 "2012-11-16T06:54:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@LZ1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LZ1)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/41 "2012-11-16T11:58:05Z")
> [@Wahoo](#):
>
> I think if you have a skilled trade you should get paid for the knowledge and skills you use, but I don’t know all the aspects of all the skilled trade unions and maybe there are some that have some rediculous wages.
>
> Remember the skilled trades have apprenticeship programs(5yr), you learn the ins and out of the trade. Why pay someone more for the same trade union vs non union? Well some people can get the big jobs done correctly without errors or other problems. If you have a skill other people don’t have you don’t just work for free.
I can get behind the skilled trade unions :tup:
---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
“Many production **workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,** according to Michael O’Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was offered a buyout last year.”
“The new contract cut salaries across the company by 8% in the first year of the five-year agreement. Salaries were then scheduled to bump up 3% in the next three years and 1% in the final year.
Hostess also reduced its pension obligations and its contribution to the employees’ health care plan. In exchange, the company offered concessions, including a 25% equity stake for workers and the inclusion of two union representatives on an eight-member board of directors”
> **[Hostess Brands closing for good due to bakers strike](https://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/companies/hostess-closing/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)**
>
> Hostess, maker of Twinkies, Wonder Bread and Ding Dongs, says strike by bakers forcing its closing.
And now you have 0 jobs
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### Author:  [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/42 "2012-11-16T12:04:42Z")
If the union people took a cut and the company folded it may have affected the amount of Obeasy money they would get.
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### Author:  [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/43 "2012-11-16T12:07:40Z")
> [@LZ](#):
>
> I can get behind the skilled trade unions :tup:
>
> ---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
>
> “Many production **workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits,** according to Michael O’Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was offered a buyout last year.”
>
> “The new contract cut salaries across the company by 8% in the first year of the five-year agreement. Salaries were then scheduled to bump up 3% in the next three years and 1% in the final year.
> Hostess also reduced its pension obligations and its contribution to the employees’ health care plan. In exchange, the company offered concessions, including a 25% equity stake for workers and the inclusion of two union representatives on an eight-member board of directors”
>
> [http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/companies/hostess-closing/index.html?hpt=hp\_t2](http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/companies/hostess-closing/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)
>
> And now you have 0 jobs
Wow. Good luck finding another $20/hr job with those kind of benefits making snack cakes.
---
### Author:  [@ProgRocker](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ProgRocker)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/44 "2012-11-16T12:11:29Z")
50 somethings with a HS diploma…McDonalds is probably hiring!
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### Author:  [@Event](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Event)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/45 "2012-11-16T12:44:31Z")
> [@JayS](#):
>
> snake cakes.
Delicious snakey goodness.
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### Author:  [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/46 "2012-11-16T12:54:48Z")
Ha ha… fixed.
---
### Author:  [@Carnut](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carnut)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/47 "2012-11-16T13:55:37Z")
> [@Fry](#):
>
> I’ve read atlas shrugged a few too many times. I shouldn’t enjoy that the union laborers on strike now don’t have a job, but I do. ☹ I’m only 30 I shouldn’t be this jaded.
I don’t blame you and you don’t have to work with them.
> [@MOBOOST4U](#):
>
> I hope this starts a trend. I really hope this happens to more companies until unions start taking a friggen clue.
>
> You cant have a sustainable business, industry, or even economy when the masses are compensated on simply showing up, and not the value they add to said entity. Theres millions of qualified people looking for jobs who would be glad to teach in schools, assemble cars, patrol the streets, or even stuff a fried fucking stick with some cream, who would be happy to do it at a fraction of the cost and double the quality if they only had the chance.
>
> Unions werent intended to be this way. How the fuck did we get to this place where people expect things guaranteed to them without any sort of incentive to perform. Its sickening really.
>
> I also havent had a Hostess product in years, I will not be losing sleep.
Agreed, however it’s not even about the amount of money that the employees made, it’s about the value they added and more often than not the value added does not justify the cost.
> [@ProgRocker](#):
>
> Probably because you interrupt their mandatory 3 hour break.
lol…
> [@LZ](#):
>
> Unions pre dated labor laws and they’re no longer useful…
Labor laws are generally a result of workers unionizing. I believe this is when they had their purpose.
> [@Wahoo](#):
>
> I think if you have a skilled trade you should get paid for the knowledge and skills you use, but I don’t know all the aspects of all the skilled trade unions and maybe there are some that have some rediculous wages.
>
> Remember the skilled trades have apprenticeship programs(5yr), you learn the ins and out of the trade. Why pay someone more for the same trade union vs non union? Well some people can get the big jobs done correctly without errors or other problems. If you have a skill other people don’t have you don’t just work for free.
Skilled trades should be paid fairly. However they should provide an honest days work for an honest wage. I believe there is nothing wrong with expecting that, however depending on what side of a picket line you are on the opinion varies.
> [@JayS](#):
>
> Wow. Good luck finding another $20/hr job with those kind of benefits making snack cakes.
There are surprisingly many out there both union and non union. The food industry and most general manufacturing in large companies pay surprisingly well.
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### Author:  [@Jon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jon)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/48 "2012-11-16T15:04:10Z")
History repeats itself (2004). The rights will be sold,snack cakes wont disappear.
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### Author:  [@robftw](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/robftw)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/49 "2012-11-16T16:20:08Z")
There is a lot more to this than what the media is covering, i work for Frito-lay and the vendors (Stroehman, snyder, frito, utz, pepsi, coke etc etc) all talk to each other about shit like this.
Drivers were being forced to work 14+ hour days 5-6 days a week with no pay increase, they were all being pushed to the limits. It was only a matter of time before the bakers at hostess had enough.
Last i heard the plant workers were being pushed over the edge labor wise, the company was not hiring new people and was stretching the workers thin, they felt they were being overworked and demanded a raise / benefits but the company wouldn’t budge.
I love how this is making the employees look bad though, bunch of cunts up at hostess HQ.
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### Author:  [@travisn](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/travisn)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/50 "2012-11-16T16:26:46Z")
I don’t think $20 an hour is bad for an adult being at a dead end job, I mean that’s only $40k a year. But I don’t see how they wouldn’t agree to an 8% pay cut across the board in order to save their asses.
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### Author:  [@1QIKZ](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/1QIKZ)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/51 "2012-11-16T16:37:53Z")
> [@robftw](#):
>
> There is a lot more to this than what the media is covering, i work for Frito-lay and the vendors (Stroehman, snyder, frito, utz, pepsi, coke etc etc) all talk to each other about shit like this.
>
> Drivers were being forced to work 14+ hour days 5-6 days a week with no pay increase, they were all being pushed to the limits. It was only a matter of time before the bakers at hostess had enough.
>
> Last i heard the plant workers were being pushed over the edge labor wise, the company was not hiring new people and was stretching the workers thin, they felt they were being overworked and demanded a raise / benefits but the company wouldn’t budge.
>
> I love how this is making the employees look bad though, bunch of cunts up at hostess HQ.
I can certainly sympathize but as I’ve said before, we are competing globally now. Does it suck working long hours? Sure. I do still feel we are lucky in this country when you look around the world and see people breaking their backs just to subsist. I also see the point of companies trying to reap large profits off employees but as a business owner myself, the risk taken and work involved can make my viewpoint jaded. I fired an employee a couple months ago that had a good paying job, no pressure, and a good work environment and just got lazy.
---
### Author:  [@Carbonfiberhooded](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carbonfiberhooded)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/52 "2012-11-16T16:54:28Z")
Just recently there was layoffs and business closures nationwide in many different industries. The one that draws the most attention is a union supposedly causing hostess to close up. Why? Because media outlets hate unions and love to flip things anyway they can to cause drama.
See Hurricane Sandy and media saying non union electricians were sent away by the big bad union. When in fact it was one shop that went home on their own because they wouldn’t wait for FEMA contracts to be finalized. Other non unions shops were working hand in hand with union workers to get power restored as quickly as possible.
More locally, see the Buffalo teachers. Where the state wants to grade the teachers on students performance even if they aren’t in class. But the media flips it saying millions of dollars of state funding will be withheld unless the teachers agree to this! How is that fair. Scum bag parents don’t care enough whether or not their children go to school and the teachers are suppose to pay for it?? Or the whole cosmetic surgery thing. Teachers have said they’ll get rid of it once a new contract is drawn up. But that’s not good enough for the media. Nevermind the fact the teachers last contract expired 9 or 10 years ago and the city refuses to negotiate a new contract. Buffalo teachers have been working under the old contract for years without getting raises. But people think they should just give up a benefit because it’s costing the public money. Because media only tells the bad. Never the good.
It doesn’t matter if unions do good. You NEVER hear about it. Never mind all the union electricians working 1000 of miles away from their families, for weeks straight, 80 hours a week to do everything they can to get power back on for the eastern seaboard. Or teachers that stay after school in the city to help the students that need and actually want the help for no additional pay.
All I’m saying is, I can guarantee, more non union workers lost their jobs in the last two weeks than union workers. You hear and read what the media wants you to hear and read. Your opinion has been made for you already.
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### Author:  [@1QIKZ](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/1QIKZ)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/53 "2012-11-16T17:09:06Z")
The ex employee I speak of has a brother in a unionized workforce at a fairly sizeable local manufacturer. When I heard the stories passed along, I find it hard to sympathize. I would not say union workers are not good, skilled, workers and they don’t do good. I don’t necessarily use the media to develop an opinion. I have heard first hand accounts of people that don’t deserve a job because of a union that allows them to be lazy, irresponsible, and overprotected. Again, not true of all but everyone shapes their own judgement.
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### Author:  [@Carbonfiberhooded](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carbonfiberhooded)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/54 "2012-11-16T17:27:08Z")
> [@1QIKZ](#):
>
> The ex employee I speak of has a brother in a unionized workforce at a fairly sizeable local manufacturer. When I heard the stories passed along, I find it hard to sympathize. I would not say union workers are not good, skilled, workers and they don’t do good. I don’t necessarily use the media to develop an opinion. I have heard first hand accounts of people that don’t deserve a job because of a union that allows them to be lazy, irresponsible, and overprotected. Again, not true of all but everyone shapes their own judgement.
There are a few bad eggs that leave it to the union to protect them. That is unfortunate, but again, you only hear about the bad few. Your absolutely right they don’t deserve to be where they are. But you know who are the first to be laid off when things get slow. The bad eggs. At least that’s how it is by me. Unless they have a family hookup higher up. But that priviledge isn’t just in unions. It can be in any business.
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### Author:  [@ryanbgb22](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ryanbgb22)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/55 "2012-11-16T19:31:05Z")
> [@JayS](#):
>
> Wow. Good luck finding another $20/hr job with those kind of benefits making snack cakes.
That’s pretty much on par for food processing jobs. It’s a semi niche area, the production guys at the place I work at are close to that and we are non-union.
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### Author:  [@08GT500](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/08GT500)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/56 "2012-11-16T20:21:03Z")
I get the union hate but we’re really going to say unions are killing this nation? How about welfare and Medicaid? Forget about those? At least union workers… work.
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### Author:  [@Carnut](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carnut)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/57 "2012-11-16T20:34:02Z")
[http://hostessbrands.info/](http://hostessbrands.info/)
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### Author:  [@08GT500](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/08GT500)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/58 "2012-11-16T20:37:13Z")
> [@Carbonfiberhooded](#):
>
> Just recently there was layoffs and business closures nationwide in many different industries. The one that draws the most attention is a union supposedly causing hostess to close up. Why? Because media outlets hate unions and love to flip things anyway they can to cause drama.
>
> See Hurricane Sandy and media saying non union electricians were sent away by the big bad union. When in fact it was one shop that went home on their own because they wouldn’t wait for FEMA contracts to be finalized. Other non unions shops were working hand in hand with union workers to get power restored as quickly as possible.
>
> More locally, see the Buffalo teachers. Where the state wants to grade the teachers on students performance even if they aren’t in class. But the media flips it saying millions of dollars of state funding will be withheld unless the teachers agree to this! How is that fair. Scum bag parents don’t care enough whether or not their children go to school and the teachers are suppose to pay for it?? Or the whole cosmetic surgery thing. Teachers have said they’ll get rid of it once a new contract is drawn up. But that’s not good enough for the media. Nevermind the fact the teachers last contract expired 9 or 10 years ago and the city refuses to negotiate a new contract. Buffalo teachers have been working under the old contract for years without getting raises. But people think they should just give up a benefit because it’s costing the public money. Because media only tells the bad. Never the good.
>
> It doesn’t matter if unions do good. You NEVER hear about it. Never mind all the union electricians working 1000 of miles away from their families, for weeks straight, 80 hours a week to do everything they can to get power back on for the eastern seaboard. Or teachers that stay after school in the city to help the students that need and actually want the help for no additional pay.
>
> All I’m saying is, I can guarantee, more non union workers lost their jobs in the last two weeks than union workers. You hear and read what the media wants you to hear and read. Your opinion has been made for you already.
Well fucking said sir. :bigtup:
Might as well blame the recession on unions as well.
---
### Author:  [@Carnut](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carnut)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/59 "2012-11-16T20:59:03Z")
I don’t blame unions. I blame greed, the lack of personal responsibility, accountability and sloth. All things that are found in people no matter what your position. I think most rational people have a problem with a system that unjustly protects people.
Management may not always make the correct decisions but there is still a cost of doing business. If the cost of business due to labor/benefit costs prices you out of the market what do you expect.
It is the responsibility of every single person in those plants, both union and salary, to do everything in their power to ensure their future.
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### Author:  [@misteroman](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/misteroman)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sad-day-unions-killed-the-twinkie/227233/60 "2012-11-17T03:05:05Z")
> [@LZ](#):
>
> Unions pre dated labor laws and they’re no longer useful…
>
> It’s shit like GM people getting paid $30-40 an hour to push a button on an assembly line.
I was making $90 an hr yesterday if that makes you feel better. I didnt have to push any buttons tho.:wavey: only $45 today so im definitely not pressing any today either!!!
D
---------- Post added at 06:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 AM ----------
> [@Carbonfiberhooded](#):
>
> There are a few bad eggs that leave it to the union to protect them. That is unfortunate, but again, you only hear about the bad few. Your absolutely right they don’t deserve to be where they are. But you know who are the first to be laid off when things get slow. The bad eggs. At least that’s how it is by me. Unless they have a family hookup higher up. But that privilege isn’t just in unions. It can be in any business.
Ive been saying the for yrs. The union protects the lazy trash here. If u come to work and do your job, the boss is not going to bother you. Every once in a while you might get a rogue boss trying to make a name for himself and thats when the union should step in but its very rare
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