# Since its a bit dead around here... Here is a new Viper build **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [March 11, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137 "2012-03-11T18:41:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cougarspeed](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cougarspeed/32/7468_2.png) [@cougarspeed](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cougarspeed)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/21 "2012-03-12T12:33:55Z")
> [@95dime](#): > > meh. i stand behind my opinion. as i said he does awesome work and the quality is top notch. i just dont see it as being a “build”. its just a conversion which i see as custom/modified. if there were changes to the rest of the car maybe then it would be a “build” > > either way the dude takes offense way too easily. I do not agree with your opinion at all. Besides why do people want to fill threads with lame comments like that. I will never understand I guess. Also he takes offense because I can’t ever remember a thread he made without people saying really annoying/dumb stuff. It is insulting and just plain petty to try to put down or even have a negative stance when someone has something nice to share that they are proud of. ---
**Author:** ![Spam16v](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/spam16v/32/5287_2.png) [@Spam16v](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Spam16v)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/22 "2012-03-12T12:36:57Z")
Harness looks like a pretty tedious build… much respect there. ---
**Author:** ![95dime](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/95dime/32/7514_2.png) [@95dime](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/95dime)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/23 "2012-03-12T13:45:14Z")
> [@cougarspeed](#): > > I do not agree with your opinion at all. > > Besides why do people want to fill threads with lame comments like that. I will never understand I guess. Also he takes offense because I can’t ever remember a thread he made without people saying really annoying/dumb stuff. It is insulting and just plain petty to try to put down or even have a negative stance when someone has something nice to share that they are proud of. really? i was insulting him? i didnt know that saying he does awesome work or that his quality is top notch was insulting. sorry. my bad. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/2X/b/b7170c8eddc0b95ece6b88172b2f416a08489a45.png) [@system](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/24 "2012-03-12T14:04:52Z")
Are we really trying to argue the difference between a ‘build’ and ‘modifications?’ Semantics. Modified or built, whichever way you look at it, it still showcases terrible skills and god awful wiring. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Final\_GTS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/final_gts/32/7359_2.png) [@Final\_GTS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Final_GTS)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/25 "2012-03-12T15:00:25Z")
> [@maxwell](#): > > Modified or built, whichever way you look at it, it still showcases terrible skills and god awful wiring. 🙂 > [@maxwell](#): > > Shotty work. 🙂 I assume you are joking… but you may want to revise your use of 🙂 to 😉 if so. If you are not, you should be explaining yourself so I can get to the drama portion of the show a bit quicker… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/2X/b/b7170c8eddc0b95ece6b88172b2f416a08489a45.png) [@system](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/26 "2012-03-12T16:26:45Z")
Clearly joking. Playing off your other thread. Honestly, fantastic work. ---
**Author:** ![Final\_GTS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/final_gts/32/7359_2.png) [@Final\_GTS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Final_GTS)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/27 "2012-03-12T18:30:57Z")
> [@maxwell](#): > > Clearly joking. Playing off your other thread. > > Honestly, fantastic work. NBD… I thought so, but the use of 🙂 was throwing me off… thats usually the smiley used when someone is purposely being a dick when latched onto a comment like that. Damn Intehrweb ---
**Author:** ![evilsrt](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/evilsrt/32/7470_2.png) [@evilsrt](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/evilsrt)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/28 "2012-03-12T19:12:42Z")
Some really nice work there Dan. Looks great and I’m betting it really wakes up the car. Before this was it pretty close to stock? ---
**Author:** ![Carnut](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/carnut/32/7590_2.png) [@Carnut](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Carnut)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/29 "2012-03-12T19:22:46Z")
Looks like a lot of work to do especially with the engine in the car. On average how long does a package like this take to install? ---
**Author:** ![Final\_GTS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/final_gts/32/7359_2.png) [@Final\_GTS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Final_GTS)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/30 "2012-03-12T19:47:34Z")
> [@evilsrt](#): > > Some really nice work there Dan. Looks great and I’m betting it really wakes up the car. Before this was it pretty close to stock? Cat-Back, Filters and Tune basically from a performance standpoint. ---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ---------- > [@Carnut](#): > > Looks like a lot of work to do especially with the engine in the car. On average how long does a package like this take to install? Ha… 7 days of work, 7 months of engineering, manufacturing, and waiting. LOL. But in all seriousness, probably about 1.5-2 weeks of actual work, but near 5 months of development on this one because of a few key components which didn’t exist until this car. ---
**Author:** ![joelster](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joelster/32/7258_2.png) [@joelster](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/joelster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/31 "2012-03-13T04:24:18Z")
Who builds the camshafts for you? What are the specs on a stock cam? I don’t know too much about Viper motors, but I imagine there aren’t too many companies that have blanks or cores to use. The motor looks clean as hell! ---
**Author:** ![Final\_GTS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/final_gts/32/7359_2.png) [@Final\_GTS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Final_GTS)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/32 "2012-03-13T06:59:23Z")
> [@joelster](#): > > Who builds the camshafts for you? What are the specs on a stock cam? I don’t know too much about Viper motors, but I imagine there aren’t too many companies that have blanks or cores to use. The motor looks clean as hell! I spec all of the cams, and Comp does the majority of the Viper grinds out there with the exception of billet grinds like this one. Stock cam is fairly small in the 218/212-220/230 range @114-120 depending on the year, but Vipers do not tend to like gigantic camshafts, especially on the older cars due to head and manifold flow restrictions. However, the Viper market is also not as tolerant to driveability issues and sacrifice as other markets. What other markets will refer to as “just the way it is” with an untunable cam with vacuum issues, the Viper guys will say GET IT THE F OUT- the extra 10 or 20 horsepower isn’t worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Neon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f19dbf/32.png) [@Neon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Neon)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/33 "2012-03-13T10:38:27Z")
Nice. This is refreshing after viewing garbage like robftw’s tow hook rice extravaganza thread. ---
**Author:** ![joelster](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joelster/32/7258_2.png) [@joelster](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/joelster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/34 "2012-03-13T16:27:42Z")
> [@Final GTS](#): > > I spec all of the cams, and Comp does the majority of the Viper grinds out there with the exception of billet grinds like this one. Stock cam is fairly small in the 218/212-220/230 range @114-120 depending on the year, but Vipers do not tend to like gigantic camshafts, especially on the older cars due to head and manifold flow restrictions. However, the Viper market is also not as tolerant to driveability issues and sacrifice as other markets. What other markets will refer to as “just the way it is” with an untunable cam with vacuum issues, the Viper guys will say GET IT THE F OUT- the extra 10 or 20 horsepower isn’t worth it. You should look up [lsmeng.com](http://lsmeng.com) they can grind anything you want. They can also change the firing order, gun drill the cams to make them stiffer, etc. I’d bet that some Viper race teams have messed around with other firing orders. Their turnaround time is very fast too. They may even offer a block lightening program for a Viper block. They can machine a small-block Chevy and remove around 35-40lbs just off of the block. It looks like a work of art when they are done. Here’s an sbc iron block that has been machined: ![http://lsmeng.com/sitebuilder/images/Lighten-Front-535x341.jpg](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/3X/9/c/9c9cbcb17aae0cd387164bf1137f605e7bb600b7.jpeg) Notice the logo, they can do whatever you want: ![http://lsmeng.com/images/Lighten-Side.jpg](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/3X/8/0/808960894d135cf92ef1619bcfe56c7636b09fef.jpeg) They say a big-block can shed up to 70lbs, i’d bet a Viper block would be at least that. ---
**Author:** ![Final\_GTS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/final_gts/32/7359_2.png) [@Final\_GTS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Final_GTS)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/35 "2012-03-13T17:23:26Z")
> [@joelster](#): > > You should look up [lsmeng.com](http://lsmeng.com) they can grind anything you want. They can also change the firing order, gun drill the cams to make them stiffer, etc. I’d bet that some Viper race teams have messed around with other firing orders. Their turnaround time is very fast too. They may even offer a block lightening program for a Viper block. They can machine a small-block Chevy and remove around 35-40lbs just off of the block. It looks like a work of art when they are done. > > Here’s an sbc iron block that has been machined. > > They say a big-block can shed up to 70lbs, i’d bet a Viper block would be at least that. If they don’t have Viper cam cores, they cannot do it at a remotely reasonable price. Only a couple companies have true cores and not just regrinds. Firing order has been changed, but it is a meaningless approach. The viper is odd fire, but in balance. By making it even fire, you would need a balance shaft as it can not be balanced out internally- this is the reason that Viper is odd fire. Sure, it may sound better in some ways, but it is pointlessly more complex and heavier. In all honesty, the last thing I would ever want to do on a block as long as a Viper’s is reduce its torsional rigidity by machining material off. The block is not heavy to begin with, and weighs in at about 100 pounds, as large as it is, and with 20 pounds of caps installed. Your estimate on weight savings is far higher than it would actually be. The Viper’s also have to the best of everyone’s knowledge, zero known direct/primary block failures at any horsepower level. I would not want to be the one to bring a problem to the market where there never was one. I am sure it has its place from an aesthetic standpoint on a show car, but I would not remove material for the sake of removing material or for weight savings personally, especially in an area that you cannot even see. There are many other ways to drop weight that would be far less risky IMO. On the topic of Viper Blocks, LSM was contacted a long time ago by a couple guys to build a billet block for the hell of it. You can see the 3D render on the website. However, I do not believe it ever came to be; and it was a Gen-2 block, not a 3 or 4. The problem is, there is no market to speak of. Sure its a nice product, but if you cannot break the original to start with- what do you have to gain? The only real benefit would be for use in custom builds with small main bores for de-stroked high-revving track engines. Otherwise, it is very, very limited. There are 6 and 7 second Vipers out there running stock blocks… its tough to sell them an upgrade! Very impressive work nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![joelster](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joelster/32/7258_2.png) [@joelster](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/joelster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/36 "2012-03-13T18:21:39Z")
> [@Final GTS](#): > > If they don’t have Viper cam cores, they cannot do it at a remotely reasonable price. Only a couple companies have true cores and not just regrinds. > > Firing order has been changed, but it is a meaningless approach. The viper is odd fire, but in balance. By making it even fire, you would need a balance shaft as it can not be balanced out internally- this is the reason that Viper isn’t odd fire. Sure, it may sound better in some ways, but it is pointlessly more complex and heavier. > > In all honesty, the last thing I would ever want to do on a block as long as a Viper’s is reduce its torsional rigidity by machining material off. The block is not heavy to begin with, and weighs in at about 100 pounds, as large as it is, and with 20 pounds of caps installed. Your estimate on weight savings is far higher than it would actually be. The Viper’s also have to the best of everyone’s knowledge, zero known direct/primary block failures at any horsepower level. I would not want to be the one to bring a problem to the market where there never was one. I am sure it has its place from an aesthetic standpoint on a show car, but I would not remove material for the sake of removing material or for weight savings personally, especially in an area that you cannot even see. There are many other ways to drop weight that would be far less risky IMO. > > On the topic of Viper Blocks, LSM was contacted a long time ago by a couple guys to build a billet block for the hell of it. You can see the 3D render on the website. However, I do not believe it ever came to be; and it was a Gen-2 block, not a 3 or 4. The problem is, there is no market to speak of. Sure its a nice product, but if you cannot break the original to start with- what do you have to gain? The only real benefit would be for use in custom builds with small main bores for de-stroked high-revving track engines. Otherwise, it is very, very limited. There are 6 and 7 second Vipers out there running stock blocks… its tough to sell them an upgrade! > > Very impressive work nonetheless. LSM doesn’t use regrinds that I am aware of. They built my camshaft, it took about 2 weeks. They simply start with a solid hunk of billet. If they did do a Viper block then i’m sure they can do a camshaft. My cam was $572 shipped to my door. I had no idea a Viper block was so light! ---
**Author:** ![ieatpaint](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ieatpaint/32/7311_2.png) [@ieatpaint](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ieatpaint)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/37 "2012-03-13T18:28:19Z")
That looks so much nicer. Any pics of the whole car? ---
**Author:** ![psychopjv](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/psychopjv/32/7251_2.png) [@psychopjv](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/psychopjv)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/38 "2012-03-14T16:11:26Z")
Viper blocks are quite light Joel. Was pleasantly surprised when we pulled Carls out. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/2X/b/b7170c8eddc0b95ece6b88172b2f416a08489a45.png) [@system](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/39 "2012-03-14T17:50:08Z")
> [@psychopjv](#): > > Viper blocks are quite light Joel. Was pleasantly surprised when we pulled Carls out. There was Viper heaters today ---
**Author:** ![Final\_GTS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/final_gts/32/7359_2.png) [@Final\_GTS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Final_GTS)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137/40 "2012-05-09T08:50:30Z")
![http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/559601_10100528739204348_15717624_48187859_1281598882_n.jpg](http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/559601_10100528739204348_15717624_48187859_1281598882_n.jpg) ![http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/562532_10100528739488778_15717624_48187864_1909499159_n.jpg](http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/562532_10100528739488778_15717624_48187864_1909499159_n.jpg) ![http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/156102_10100563752442538_15717624_48290060_1217521742_n.jpg](http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/156102_10100563752442538_15717624_48290060_1217521742_n.jpg) ![http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/582152_10100566033735808_153801867_n.jpg](http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/582152_10100566033735808_153801867_n.jpg) And it lives… [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/since-its-a-bit-dead-around-here-here-is-a-new-viper-build/221137.md?page=3)