# So, i want to buy a used tig welder **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic\ **Created:** [September 1, 2009, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937 "2009-09-01T10:59:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/51bf81/32.png) [@Hass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Hass)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/41 "2009-09-06T06:43:56Z")
> [@n20junkie](#): > > Once you go tig, that mig will sit in the corner un-used. My brand new millermatic 210 does, and its a $3,500 machine with its spool gun and stuff. Unless he gets frustrated trying to learn to do it well :roflpicard::roflpicard::roflpicard: But yea, I’ll agree. You’ll love it :o Keep us updated with some pics when you’re welding! I’m not sure where to get the torch and such, I always go to Buffalo Welding Supply for anything I need, if I need it asap. (like running out of consumables mid project) Or for Gas… I usually order everything online because it’s so much cheaper :gotme: ---
**Author:** ![mike125k](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mike125k/32/7282_2.png) [@mike125k](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/mike125k)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 7:06am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/42 "2009-09-06T07:06:38Z")
^ That’s true. Whenever I had to resort back to a MIG I hated it! Once you learn to TIG you will never go back. Got my tank from Mills, they’ve always seemed ok to me. ---
**Author:** ![POOPRA](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/poopra/32/7188_2.png) [@POOPRA](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/POOPRA)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 8:02am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/43 "2009-09-06T08:02:41Z")
Go to Praxair/Mills, they always have been eager to help me with anything there. Strate is just around the corner too but there prices are high if you dont have a account with them, and the guys there seem miserable. ---
**Author:** ![turbociv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@turbociv](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/turbociv)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 8:04am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/44 "2009-09-06T08:04:46Z")
> [@Hass](#): > > Juat? > Are you seriously telling someone to half ass a life saving device? (rollcage) Please find where i said this and get back to me. Theres lots of quality mig’d and dc tig’d roll cages out there. Just because you prefer certain methods doesnt make them the only methods of quality. The quality of the machine only makes it easier for the novice. A good welder can make a stick weld look great and hold strong. A good welder can use an ok machine and make great welds. > [@n20junkie](#): > > Scratch start tig? Hello 1950 > > Ok you can gas weld aluminum too, but why buy a welder if your going to get a POS welder thats nothing but a crappy dc power supply. > > Really, I can tell you don’t do any quality welding, because if you did…you wouldn’t say these things. Whats your opinion of a POS welder? sorry you got but hurt after i corrected you on saying you cant tig aluminum with dc and that you cant scratch start. Next time think before posting incorrect information please. Like i said before, Most of the chinese machines everyone puts down run the same name brand componants/electronics inside. You think china isnt smart enough to purchase a machine and copy it? look at newmans thread on the derrick machine he designed that got stolen by china. Oh, and for the record i own a lincoln mig, not a china built unit. All i did was correct some misinformation is all. I understand why some would be biased to certain methods if its all they have known. ---
**Author:** ![Viper966](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/viper966/32/7268_2.png) [@Viper966](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Viper966)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 9:29am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/45 "2009-09-06T09:29:43Z")
How much should I expect for an argon tank+gas? I don’t need something huge, I need to be able to move it… Also does anybody have a suggestion on running the 240v to my attached garage? I don’t know if I want to work inside my panel ---
**Author:** ![Viper966](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/viper966/32/7268_2.png) [@Viper966](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Viper966)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 9:36am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/46 "2009-09-06T09:36:48Z")
> [@n20junkie](#): > > Mills has a good selection, and they are the local Lincoln dealer. I would go there. You will LOVE that machine. > > If you need help setting up a push button for doing roll cage work, let me know. The machine wasn’t setup for easy pushbutton installation, but it can be wired and its great for doing inverted roll cage work. Once you go tig, that mig will sit in the corner un-used. My brand new millermatic 210 does, and its a $3,500 machine with its spool gun and stuff. Why push button? I assume u mean for the amp control? I’ve seen people use a finger trigger ---
**Author:** ![LowlyOilBurner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@LowlyOilBurner](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LowlyOilBurner)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 10:00am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/47 "2009-09-06T10:00:00Z")
There is alot of good info people are posting up here, and alot of shit. Like off the wall shit. Let me break it down for everyone here, “GTAW power source basics”, I’ll call it Your are looking for a tig machine that can weld aluminum and stainless and mild, ect (Non-Ferrous&Ferrous metals)? Right? Right. Tig machines CONSTANT CURRANT machines, meaning they have a sloping volt/amp curve. In a CC machine, the AMPS are your “HEAT” CC mahicnes can also “Stick” weld. These machines are sold as DC (direct currant) or AC/DC combo machines (alternating currant/direct currant) DC: this is what you use to weld mild steel, stainless, titanium, nickel, inconel, other exotics. AC: this is what you use to weld non-ferrous metals like ALUMINUM or magnesium, ect. The welding currant can be “distributed” a few different ways (we are talking tig, so i will explian how that is distributed) You can have DC like this: -scratch start: you have to strike your tungsten on something (a piece of copper is good) for the arc to start. Usually, you have no amprage control, if the machine is set at 125amps, thats what you get, no remote foot pedal or fingertip control here. This is old school, and alot of REALLY good pipe welders from way back sometimes still use this. -“touch start” or “Lift-Arc TIG”: This is where you push your foot pedal down to start currant flow, touch your tungsten to what you are gonna weld, and as you lift it up, the arc starts. This is leaps and bounds better than scratch start tig. You can use your remote amp control, and you don’t leave tungsten deposit’s in the finished weld. -High Freq start: This is the modern, most common way to strike and arc. Hi freq is added to the welding currant to start the arc, once the arc is started, hi freq shuts off. This allows the tungsten not to touch the work at all. Makes life alot easier. You ALWAYS weld with ELECTRODE NEGATIVE when welding with DC currant, gives you good penetration, and does not put too much heat on your workpiece (tungsten) Now, here is how your AC currant works: High freq is ALWAYS used to start the arc. High freq is ALWAYS used to MAINTAIN the arc on a TRANSFORMER/ RECTIFIER type power source. AC currant switches between ELCTRODE NEGATIVE and ELECTRODE POSITIVE. The two half cycles of the AC wave (EP&EN) is what enables you to weld aluminum with it. The ELECTRODE POSITIVE portion of the half cycle gives you the CLEANING action required to break up the oxide coating which forms on aluminum …Then the opposite side of the half cycle is: ELECTRODE NEGATIVE. This is where you get your PENETRATION from. The switching of EN to EP is what gives AC tig welding that distinctive “buzzing” noise. Now, everytime the currant switches from EN to EP, the arc will go out. That is why high freq is added to the welding currant. It helps maintain the arc when it drops to “0” between half cycles. (It’s real simple, look at an AC sine wave, you’ll see what I mean) This only holds true with the TRANSFORMER type machines, like a Miller Syncrowave, or a Lincoln Persision TIG. INVERTER power sources (Like a Miller Dynasty 200/350/700) use “Advanced squarewave technology”, which eliminates the need for CONTINUOUS high freq, due to the differnt shape of the AC waveform. They still use it to start the arc, but not to “carry” the arc. I’m not even going to get into the crazy shit these machines are capable of, but they are THE CAT’s ASS. Period. Now, you can weld aluminum with Direct Currant, Electrode positive, in a vaccum chamber. You can also weld it with DC, electode negative too. This is total shit, not even worth trying. If you ever think you will want to weld aluminum, you get an AC/DC machine. Don’t cheap out and buy a DC only machine, because they cost half as much. Do it right the first time. There is always some cheap fuck out there that will tell you, you can do this with this and so on, but at the end of the day, it’s all half assed. You need AC to PROPERLY weld aluminum. What do I recommend for a machine? A Miller Dynasty 200DX TigRunner package. It’s only $5,500. But, in all seriousness, I would pick up a used Sycnrowave 180SD (later model, not one from the mid 1990’s, one from like 2003 or around there, it’s a better machine) Or buy a new Syncrowave 200. You would be looking for something that puts out around 200amps, unless you plan on welding cylinder heads for top fuel drag cars. The similar offerings form Lincoln are 100% on par with the Millers. Pick what color you like better, blue or red? They both make great products. ---
**Author:** ![Viper966](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/viper966/32/7268_2.png) [@Viper966](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Viper966)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/48 "2009-09-06T10:24:09Z")
I got the tig 185 for 880 bux with a foot pedal, just need a torch and regulator. Specs are at [tig185.com](http://tig185.com), I liked it better then the comparable miller syncrowave cuz this has pulse where the millers didn’t ---
**Author:** ![Hass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/51bf81/32.png) [@Hass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Hass)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/49 "2009-09-06T10:36:12Z")
double! ---
**Author:** ![Hass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/51bf81/32.png) [@Hass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Hass)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/50 "2009-09-06T10:40:33Z")
> [@turbociv](#): > > Please find where i said this and get back to me. Theres lots of quality mig’d and dc tig’d roll cages out there. Just because you prefer certain methods doesnt make them the only methods of quality. The quality of the machine only makes it easier for the novice. A good welder can make a stick weld look great and hold strong. A good welder can use an ok machine and make great welds. > > Whats your opinion of a POS welder? sorry you got but hurt after i corrected you on saying you cant tig aluminum with dc and that you cant scratch start. Next time think before posting incorrect information please. > > Like i said before, Most of the chinese machines everyone puts down run the same name brand componants/electronics inside. You think china isnt smart enough to purchase a machine and copy it? look at newmans thread on the derrick machine he designed that got stolen by china. Oh, and for the record i own a lincoln mig, not a china built unit. > > All i did was correct some misinformation is all. I understand why some would be biased to certain methods if its all they have known. > [@turbociv](#): > > yea, high freq isnt needed to tig aluminum and neither is ac. DC is straight polarity and doesnt have the cleaning effect that a AC machine will have. Square wave is nice but also not necessary. Many people get by welding aluminum with DC and scratch starting so keep that in mind while searching as well. Just takes longer to heat up the aluminum and its not as pretty when completed. But obviously id rather spend the xtra few hundo and get a decent ac/dc machine. Also ALOT of people have great luck with some of the china build machines that are selling at a fraction of the price as your name brand lincol,hobart,miller, etc. They all use the same name brand electronics on the inside as the name brand machines. That. All of it. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. Nor should you give people ideas that they can. I’d like to see you pass a 100% xray test doing that. As that’s the quality that roll cages should be welded to, should they not? Little bit of porosity or incomplete fusion somewhere, leads to a fracture, then a break, then puts extra stress on the other points than what they’re designed for, which causes them to fail, which creates a deathtrap imo. I’m surprised lowlyoilburner didn’t comment on it. Probably skipped right over it. edit; he actually did. > [@LowlyOilBurner](#): > > Now, you can weld aluminum with Direct Currant, Electrode positive, in a vaccum chamber. You can also weld it with DC, electode negative too. This is total shit, not even worth trying. If you ever think you will want to weld aluminum, you get an AC/DC machine. Don’t cheap out and buy a DC only machine, because they cost half as much. Do it right the first time. There is always some cheap fuck out there that will tell you, you can do this with this and so on, but at the end of the day, it’s all half assed. You need AC to PROPERLY weld aluminum. ---
**Author:** ![turbociv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@turbociv](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/turbociv)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/51 "2009-09-06T11:26:02Z")
> [@Viper966](#): > > I got the tig 185 for 880 bux with a foot pedal, just need a torch and regulator. Specs are at [tig185.com](http://tig185.com), I liked it better then the comparable miller syncrowave cuz this has pulse where the millers didn’t thats a screaming deal, i hope all works out for ya. where did you find it? > [@Hass](#): > > That. > All of it. > Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. > Nor should you give people ideas that they can. > > I’d like to see you pass a 100% xray test doing that. > As that’s the quality that roll cages should be welded to, should they not? > > Little bit of porosity or incomplete fusion somewhere, leads to a fracture, then a break, then puts extra stress on the other points than what they’re designed for, which causes them to fail, which creates a deathtrap imo. > > I’m surprised lowlyoilburner didn’t comment on it. > Probably skipped right over it. > > edit; > he actually did. what the hell are you talking about? i didnt know brian was building a cage outta aluminum.lol or did you miss the whole thing where steel is welded with only DC? unless stick welding with a certain rod. Mig is still a standard even when it comes to Xray. 99% of the pipes that we get xray checked are done with mig. So im still trying to figure out what your trying to say or prove here. Only thing that matt (lowlyoilburner) said was that welding aluminum with direct current was not a standard and should be avoided which is mainly only concern for high stress invironments. everything else would more then likely be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Viper966](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/viper966/32/7268_2.png) [@Viper966](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Viper966)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/52 "2009-09-06T11:38:08Z")
> [@turbociv](#): > > thats a screaming deal, i hope all works out for ya. where did you find it? ebay, some we sell yourstuff on ebay store outta flint michigan, i gotta pick it up next saturday, only 4 hours each way ---
**Author:** ![LowlyOilBurner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@LowlyOilBurner](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LowlyOilBurner)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/53 "2009-09-06T11:47:17Z")
I don’t think roll cages should be constructed from aluminum. ---
**Author:** ![Viper966](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/viper966/32/7268_2.png) [@Viper966](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Viper966)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/54 "2009-09-06T12:21:18Z")
> [@LowlyOilBurner](#): > > I don’t think roll cages should be constructed from aluminum. :wtf: i have no idea where that even came from… im using PVC motherfucker… gonna paint it black and put roll padding no it so it passes tech… ---
**Author:** ![LowlyOilBurner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@LowlyOilBurner](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LowlyOilBurner)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/55 "2009-09-06T14:43:07Z")
> [@Viper966](#): > > :wtf: i have no idea where that even came from… > > im using PVC motherfucker… gonna paint it black and put roll padding no it so it passes tech… I don’t either. I skimmed over this thread and somewhere someone said something about it (using continous high-freq to weld a cage or some shit??) I really didn’t pay much attention to it. I gave a very detailed write up on power sources and offered my opinion and help. You got yourself a very nice machine, I think you will be very pleased with it. If you need someone to help you learn how to use it, let me know. I taught welding @ Quality Inspection Services for a while. I think the PVC would be siq though, lol! ---
**Author:** ![n20junkie](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/n20junkie/32/7396_2.png) [@n20junkie](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/n20junkie)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/56 "2009-09-06T19:38:30Z")
> [@turbociv](#): > > Please find where i said this and get back to me. Theres lots of quality mig’d and dc tig’d roll cages out there. Just because you prefer certain methods doesnt make them the only methods of quality. The quality of the machine only makes it easier for the novice. A good welder can make a stick weld look great and hold strong. A good welder can use an ok machine and make great welds. > > Whats your opinion of a POS welder? sorry you got but hurt after i corrected you on saying you cant tig aluminum with dc and that you cant scratch start. Next time think before posting incorrect information please. > > Like i said before, Most of the chinese machines everyone puts down run the same name brand componants/electronics inside. You think china isnt smart enough to purchase a machine and copy it? look at newmans thread on the derrick machine he designed that got stolen by china. Oh, and for the record i own a lincoln mig, not a china built unit. > > All i did was correct some misinformation is all. I understand why some would be biased to certain methods if its all they have known. Dude, if your talking about a scratch start welder, its a POS. Now there are lift arc welders, totally different. If your running a welder made after 1950 that doesn’t have a HF start, and at least a sine wave continious HF, you need to get with the times. I have been welding for the majority of my life after being able to walk, and have forgotten more about welding that most know. I am giving current information. If you wana recomend historical processes or out of date equipment, go ahead. But with a good machine costing $1,500, talking about attempting to weld alumimum with a tig DC is stupid (I have never seen it done that way tig, not sure if its possible, only DC reverse with a stick electrode works, and even sine wave HF is a pain if its not perfectly clean material). I know that a stick weld can and is better for many many purposes. I have done super high pressure vessels, and use stick on many many jobs. But that is neither here nor there, the man asked about a TIG welder. But thanks for the input, I feel smarter after listening to you prove your intellegence. ---
**Author:** ![turbociv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@turbociv](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/turbociv)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/57 "2009-09-06T21:37:47Z")
all i did was correct your misinformation. I dont even weld for a living and you proved my point by back pedaling and agreeing with me that it can be done. I realy hope you didnt forget more then i know because you need all the help you can get. lol ---
**Author:** ![LowlyOilBurner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@LowlyOilBurner](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LowlyOilBurner)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 10:05am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937/58 "2009-09-07T10:05:40Z")
> [@n20junkie](#): > > If your running a welder made after 1950 that doesn’t have a HF start, and at least a sine wave continious HF, you need to get with the times. > > and even sine wave HF is a pain if its not perfectly clean material. Sine wave AC tig IS 1950/60’s technology. I think you mean “Square Wave”? Squarewave AC tig is “new” technology. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/so-i-want-to-buy-a-used-tig-welder/72937.md?page=2)