# Taxes, the election and you

**URL:** <https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054>\
**Category:** PittSpeed Off Topic\
**Created:** [October 8, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054 "2008-10-08T20:00:38Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MBH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@MBH](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MBH)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/1 "2008-10-08T20:00:38Z")

</div>

I made a pretty big post on another forum, and I thought that some of you guys might actually like to see some relevant information instead of political BS during this election race. Try to keep it civil, and please try to avoid mindless bashing or copying and pasting random crap you got as a chain email. That stuff is usually BS, but this is legitimate as there are reputable sources to back it up.

You want change? Good. If you elect Obama, you’re going to have practice asking for spare change… because you’ll need it. Obama will rob America blind with taxes.

Take the time to read this. You only need to do this once every 4 years, so find the time before November 4th and read up!

There is more to a tax plan than just Federal income tax, and all too often its overlooked. Let’s take a look at the tax plans for both candidates:

CAPITAL GAINS TAX  
MCCAIN  
0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA  
28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

DIVIDEND TAX  
MCCAIN  
15% (no change)

OBAMA  
39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that ‘Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.’)

INCOME TAX  
MCCAIN

(no changes)  
Single making 30K - tax $4,500  
Single making 50K - tax $12,500  
Single making 75K - tax $18,750  
Married making 60K- tax $9,000  
Married making 75K - tax $18,750  
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)  
Single making 30K - tax $8,400  
Single making 50K - tax $14,000  
Single making 75K - tax $23,250  
Married making 60K - tax $16,800  
Married making 75K - tax $21,000  
Married making 125K - tax $38,750  
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX  
MCCAIN

- 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA  
Restore the inheritance tax

Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren’t high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least…New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!

sources:  
[http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html](http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/election/2008/index.html)

> **[2016 Presidential Election Headquarters](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2016/presidential-election-headquarters?s=proposed+taxes)**
>
> Elections news and videos for the 2016 presidential race. See the latest analysis and data for the election on FoxNews.com.

  

> **[Daily News - Health, Money, Social Security, Medicare, Politics - Bulletin Today](https://www.aarp.org/bulletin/)**
>
> AARP Bulletin Today features the latest daily news information and articles on Health, Social Security, Medicare, Politics, Scam Alerts and more. Bulletin RSS feed.

  

> **[Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis](https://www.washingtonpost.com)**
>
> Breaking news and analysis on politics, business, world national news, entertainment more. In-depth DC, Virginia, Maryland news coverage including traffic, weather, crime, education, restaurant reviews and more.

  

> **[Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News & Analysis](https://www.washingtonpost.com)**
>
> Breaking news and analysis on politics, business, world national news, entertainment more. In-depth DC, Virginia, Maryland news coverage including traffic, weather, crime, education, restaurant reviews and more.

  
… … … …

Another tax topic, started from this article: [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1223...s\_opinion\_main](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1223...s_opinion_main) \<----- Wall Street Journal pointing out the tax plans under both McCain & Obama.

According to the Tax Policy Center, a joint venture between the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution, around 78% of the McCain tax cut would accrue to the top fifth of income earners, with almost 30% going to the highest 1%. This seems inequitable on its face, a point the Obama campaign and the press focus on … As it happens, the top fifth of earners currently pay 67% of all federal taxes – including not just income taxes, but payroll taxes, corporate taxes and death taxes. The top 1% of earners pay 26% of all federal taxes. (When you only count income taxes, the top 1% pay nearly 40%)

If the McCain proposal were passed, the top fifth would actually pay a greater share of total federal taxes and the top 1%'s share would decline by only 0.3%. In other words, high earners carry the vast majority of the federal tax burden …

In case you are wondering, here is how the Barack Obama tax plan would compare:

By contrast, the Obama plan would increase marginal income tax rates on high earners and raise taxes on capital gains and dividends, with the likely effect of contracting labor supply, reducing rewards for saving, and increasing incentives to avoid taxes. All but the very lowest income Americans would face higher marginal tax rates under the Obama plan than the McCain proposal.

[http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer](http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer) \<~~ Citizens Against Government Waste will tell you which candidate has the best record about useless spending. McCain FTW on this issue. [unlike Bush]

Obama did in fact, as Palin pointed out, vote to raise taxes for individuals making $42,000. Biden seemed to call Palin out on that, saying it was not true. [http://www.nypost.com/seven/10022008](http://www.nypost.com/seven/10022008)…\_up\_131755.htm

And I quote; While Obama has suggested no such tax hike, he in fact did vote in favor of a nonbinding budget resolution establishing a framework that would have raised taxes on people making as little as $42,000."

Now, let’s take this even further & study a few more fast facts from Politifact, a non-partisan tax info group;

Other than the extent to which it grants “tax cuts” to non-taxpayers, Obama’s economic plan differs mostly from McCain’s for taxpayers earning more than $250,000.

Taxpayers making up to $161,000 a year would get roughly the same tax cuts under the Obama and McCain plans, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Under McCain, tax cuts would continue into the highest brackets. Under Obama, those taxes would rise.

For those earning $603,000 or more, the government’s annual take would go up an additional $115,974, according to an analysis by the center.

Those earning above $2.9 million would see their federal tax increase by $701,885 each year.

Obama also would raise Social Security taxes, unlike McCain, applying the tax to income $250,000 and above.

Obama also says all his new programs will be paid for and reduce the deficit.

The Tax Policy Center, using researchers from the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, found that Obama’s tax plan would actually add to the national debt by some $3.5 trillion by 2018.

Now, lets think OUTSIDE of the “Joe Bubba” & “Sally Simpleton” box & do some simple math.

To Joe & Sally [uneducated] Obama’s plan to increase taxes on people who provide jobs sounds great!

But anyone with a decent education can do this simple math;

You are a businessman, you earn $800,000 a year. You have 10 guys working for you @ which you pay them $40,000 a year to each one.  
That leave you with $400,000.

More than likely, you have a pretty nice place to live, but also you probably invest much of your net profit back into your business. Scroll back up to Obama’s plan;  
For those earning $603,000 or more, the government’s annual take would go up an additional $115,974, according to an analysis by the center.

So you will be taxed @ least $115,000. [+more since you make 800,000]

You will not have to lay off at least 2-3 workers under his tax plan.

See, Joe Bubba & Sally Simpleton have no idea how business works. They think that a few extra dollars in their pockets from those EVIL rich people is justice! If the layoff wasn’t enough, their landlord just had their taxes raised too - but he’s a business man, so when he is paying more, he’s going to charge more… and this is just the start.

See where taxing the rich goes wrong? It never accounts for the fact that SHIT RUNS DOWN HILL. The rich didn’t get that way because they’re dumb. They pass off those new taxes that Joe & Sally voted for back onto them. So much for justice!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![foxrus14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@foxrus14](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/foxrus14)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/2 "2008-10-08T20:12:07Z")

</div>

AMEN!!! ^ Truth!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MBH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@MBH](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MBH)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/3 "2008-10-08T20:19:30Z")

</div>

> [@CRX\>stage 2 SRT4](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/crx-stage-2-srt4/37965/164):
>
> AMEN!!! ^ Truth!

Thanks dude, I just wanted people to have a chance to see everything for what it really is instead of all of the BS issues that can go either way once their elected. I’m not saying that taxes can’t change - but if Obama’s tax plan is that bad right now, I’d hate to see what kind of stuff he could cook up in 4 years as the president. I think he has a number of good qualities and some good policies, but its not enough to make up for financial irresponsibility that is unfortunately common for the democrats which is finally and unfortunately showing up as of late with the mortgage foreclosures ☹

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![4doors5gears](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/4doors5gears/32/6006_2.png) [@4doors5gears](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/4doors5gears)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/4 "2008-10-08T21:07:36Z")

</div>

Very good thread man… It’s just ashame that so many of today’s youth votes for the guy who gets on MTV more and whose shirt P-Diddy has on.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MBH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@MBH](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MBH)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/5 "2008-10-08T21:20:11Z")

</div>

> [@Opinions - new PDA phone?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/opinions-new-pda-phone/38272/28):
>
> Very good thread man… It’s just ashame that so many of today’s youth votes for the guy who gets on MTV more and whose shirt P-Diddy has on.

Thanks, and I agree. It is downright retarded to vote for someone because you think its the trendy thing to do. I can’t stand that some people equate movie stars or musicians as political sources. Yeah, those guys have the cushiest most overpaid jobs and are so detached from reality it isn’t even funny. Some of them have it together, but the disturbing majority are a mess and have no business speaking publicly or in the media about politics.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![gtlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gtlaw](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/gtlaw)\
**Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/6 "2008-10-08T21:36:19Z")

</div>

yeah Obama is scary, I’m just glad to see other people think so too. I’m really starting to feel its a lost cause

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kilmer420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/d6d6ee/32.png) [@kilmer420](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/kilmer420)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/7 "2008-10-09T04:50:55Z")

</div>

Not everything is as you have put it above.

Capital gains tax does not apply to most people, especially to the example that you have provided. If I sell a home, and then buy another one, do you think I will use that money for at least a down payment or to buy out the other home? Well, guess what? Then the capitals gains tax does not apply since it’s re-invested. There is a criterion of how long you can live in your house before you sell it and the capital gains tax is even applied. Read up on it…

Here is Obama’s plan:

Capital Gains: Families with incomes below $250,000 will continue to pay the capital gains rates that they pay today. For those in the top two income tax brackets – likewise adjusted to affect only families over $250,000 – Obama will create a new top capital gains rate of 20 percent. Obama’s 20% rate is equal is the lowest rate that existed in the 1990s and the rate that President Bush proposed in 2001. It is almost a third lower than the rate that President Reagan signed into law in 1986.

[http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet\_Tax\_Plan\_FINAL.pdf](http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet_Tax_Plan_FINAL.pdf)

On top of all this Obama is proposing to Eliminate Capital Gains for Small Businesses. Obama would cut capital gains taxes to 0% for investments in small businesses and start ups.

While McCain will continue to tax capital gains for small businesses at 15%.

Now, if you want to continue. Obama create a New Small Business Healthcare Tax Credit. Obama would provide a 50% health care tax credit to small businesses and lower health insurance costs by $2,500 per family for all firms.

While McCain will add Costs for Firms That Provide Health Insurance. McCain would tax employer contributions to employee health insurance plans for the first time in history.

Your link for the WSJ doesn’t work. I’ll reply to this when I have more time later…But read over the facts first…

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![imported\_showtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@imported\_showtime](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/imported_showtime)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 6:09am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/8 "2008-10-09T06:09:01Z")

</div>

also don’t forget that McCain wants to tax your employer provided health care benefits

trickle down economics…cutting taxes on the rich & extremely rich…DOES NOT WORK.  
its looks fine on paper or if you explain it to someone it can sound good, but in reality it doesn’t work.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![fah\_quad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ac91a4/32.png) [@fah\_quad](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fah_quad)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/9 "2008-10-09T06:19:01Z")

</div>

I’m still going with p-diddy. You want taxes; try living in Europe. Americans want the easy living, and all the benefits, without paying for it.  
Anything can be spun, and although you say no chain mail copy/pastes, that’s exactly what your post looks like.  
People will always believe anything that is spun against the opposing candidate to be absolute truth.  
Truth is always somewhere in the middle of both sides.  
I’m going to go watch MTV now.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![imported\_showtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@imported\_showtime](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/imported_showtime)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 6:26am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/10 "2008-10-09T06:26:04Z")

</div>

New Tax Cuts -Obama  
Refundable “Making Work Pay Credit” of 6.2 percent of earnings up to a maximum earnings of $8,100 per worker  
Refundable “Universal Mortgage Credit” of 10 percent of mortgage interest for nonitemizers up to $800  
Eliminate income tax for seniors making less than $50,000 per year  
Make Research and Development and renewable energy production tax credit (wind, solar) permanent  
Extend childless Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) phasein range and increase phaseout threshold; increase EITC phase-in rate to 45 percent for families with three or more children; increase add-on to EITC phase-out threshold for married filers to $5,000  
Make Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit refundable and equal to 50 percent of child care expenses less than $6,000  
Make saver’s credit refundable and change to a 50 percent match of the first $1,000 of contributions  
Rename the Hope Credit the “American Opportunity Tax Credit” and expand it to a refundable credit of 100% of the first $4,000 of college expenses  
Mandate automatic 401(k)s and automatic IRAs  
New Tax Cuts - McCain  
Allow first-year deduction of 3 and 5-year equipment, deny interest deduction (expires after 2013)  
Reduce maximum corporate income tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent (phased in by 2015)  
Increase the dependent exemption by two-thirds (phased in by 2016)  
Convert Research and Development credit to 10 percent of wages incurred for Research and Development, make permanent  
Capital Gains - Obama

Increase maximum capital gains rate to 20 percent for those earning more than $200,000 ($250,000 for married couples)  
Require information reporting of basis for gains  
Capital Gains - McCain  
Make permanent current rates on capital gains and dividends, (0 and 15 percent)

2001/2003 Tax Cuts - Obama  
Permanently extend child credit expansions, 10, 15, 25, and 28 percent rates, and changes to tax implications of marriage  
Restore 36 and 39.6 percent statutory income tax rates in 2009  
Restore phaseouts of personal exemptions and itemized deducations (PEP and Pease) for households making more than $200,000 ($250,000 for married couples), increase the PEP and Pease threshold

2001/2003 Tax Cuts - McCain  
Make permanent all provisions other than the estate tax repeal

Alternative Minimum Tax - Obama

Extend and index 2007 AMT patch

Alternative Minimum Tax - McCain  
Extend and index 2007 AMT patch, further increase exemption by additional 5 percent per year after 2013 (temporarily)

Estate Tax - Obama

Make permanent estate tax with $3.5 million exemption and 45 percent rate

Estate Tax - McCain

Make permanent estate tax with $5 million exemption and 15 percent rate

Simplification - Obama  
Provide taxpayers with simple returns the option of pre -filled tax forms to verify, sign, return to IRS  
Simplification - McCain

Create optional alternative tax with two rates and larger standard deduction and personal exemption

Revenue Raisers and Tax Havens - Obama  
Eliminate oil and gas loopholes  
Close loopholes in the corporate tax deductibility of CEO pay  
Tax carried interest as ordinary income  
Reallocate multinational tax deductions  
Impose a windfall profits tax on oil and gas companies  
Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay corporate income tax  
Codify economic substance doctrine (requires transactions that qualify for tax benefits have economic justification beyond those benefits)  
Create an international tax haven watch list of countries who do not share information with the U.S. and require greater financial disclosure to decrease tax shelters  
Revenue Raisers and Tax Havens - McCain  
Repeal domestic production activities deduction  
Eliminate oil and gas loopholes  
Unspecified corporate base broadeners  
Health - Obama  
Income-related federal tax subsidies for health insurance purchased through new health insurance exchange  
Require employers to provide insurance or pay a percentage of payroll to support the national plan  
Small business healthcare tax credit of 50 percent of employer paid premiums  
Health - McCain

Replace exclusion from income for employer sponsored health insurance with refundable credit of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families who purchase qualifying health insurance

Other - Obama

Social Security/payroll taxes: impose additional tax of 2-4 percent (combined employer and employee) on workers with income above $200,000 ($250,000 for married couples)

Other - McCain  
Ban internet and cell phone taxes

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jeff95TA](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jeff95ta/32/5935_2.png) [@Jeff95TA](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jeff95TA)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 6:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/11 "2008-10-09T06:44:31Z")

</div>

Regarding the social security & capital gains taxes, it looks like if you and a spouse both made $125K, then you’d be better off not being married (like the old “marriage tax”). Am I interpreting that correctly? I’m not sure what the current tax tules are. Not that it would affect me!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MBH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@MBH](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/MBH)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/12 "2008-10-09T09:08:01Z")

</div>

> [@Opinions - new PDA phone?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/opinions-new-pda-phone/38272/33):
>
> Your link for the WSJ doesn’t work. I’ll reply to this when I have more time later…But read over the facts first…

I don’t have the time to read this all and think about it till tonight, I’ll fix my link though in a bit. It looks like it just chopped out the middle when I copied it over :rolleyes:

Showtime: please list some sources.

In my quick skimming over of all this stuff, which I’m glad that you guys posted, the only thing that jumped out at me for Obama that would actually help my own personal situation is the elimination of small business gains taxes. I look forward to reading everything later :bigok:

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![beat90tsi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@beat90tsi](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/beat90tsi)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/13 "2008-10-09T15:05:29Z")

</div>

Obama is a self-proclaimed socialist and a huge spender.

I’m not fan of McCain, but he at least has a record of pushing for spending reform and pushing to cut taxes.

When it comes to taxes, anyone who supports Obama is drinking the kool-aid.

Sure he might help your situation today, but if you’re honestly that short-sighted, we shouldn’t even be talking.

Continue to punish the rich, and they will find nice places to live other than here. Sure in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and even a couple years ago that seemed like an idol threat, but today, wake up and smell the rotting economy. America is no longer the land of prosperity. There are better markets elsewhere, and people are pursuing them.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Darkstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@Darkstar](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Darkstar)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/14 "2008-10-09T16:20:57Z")

</div>

> [@A BAR FOR EVERYNIGHT OF THE WEEK!?!?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/a-bar-for-everynight-of-the-week/38165/38):
>
> Obama is a self-proclaimed socialist and a huge spender.
> 
> I’m not fan of McCain, but he at least has a record of pushing for spending reform and pushing to cut taxes.
> 
> When it comes to taxes, anyone who supports Obama is drinking the kool-aid.
> 
> Sure he might help your situation today, but if you’re honestly that short-sighted, we shouldn’t even be talking.
> 
> Continue to punish the rich, and they will find nice places to live other than here. Sure in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and even a couple years ago that seemed like an idol threat, but today, wake up and smell the rotting economy. America is no longer the land of prosperity. There are better markets elsewhere, and people are pursuing them.

there are no small government candidates in this race. At least with Obama, he proposes to do something with our money, other than sink even more of it into defense which McCain will do. And if his foreign policy cred works out and America can be respected once more as a nation, maybe we can safely downsize the defense department budget. We pay a shit-ton of taxes now. There’s no reason why we cannot cut out enough wasteful spending to get ourselves out of this mess. Of course, this all assumes the dollar is worth the paper it’s printed on by the time O’Bama is sworn in.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![77rednecktruck](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/77rednecktruck/32/5966_2.png) [@77rednecktruck](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/77rednecktruck)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/15 "2008-10-09T16:56:45Z")

</div>

> [@GOT FMIC?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/got-fmic/38228/27):
>
> there are no small government candidates in this race. At least with Obama, he proposes to do something with our money, other than sink even more of it into defense which McCain will do. And if his foreign policy cred works out and America can be respected once more as a nation, maybe we can safely downsize the defense department budget. We pay a shit-ton of taxes now. There’s no reason why we cannot cut out enough wasteful spending to get ourselves out of this mess. Of course, this all assumes the dollar is worth the paper it’s printed on by the time O’Bama is sworn in.

I cannot believe a libetarian is voting for Obama, that’s just shameful.

Do you really think a democrat will shrink the gov to normal levels?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Shaggy](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/shaggy/32/5945_2.png) [@Shaggy](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Shaggy)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/16 "2008-10-09T16:59:51Z")

</div>

What about the shit that both are them saying.

Eliminating programs that are not working.  
Which exactly is what?

Should eliminate the global warming shit and the dumbass Healthcare system.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![slowgto1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@slowgto1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/slowgto1)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/17 "2008-10-09T17:28:16Z")

</div>

This discussion may be irrelevant soon, there is still no documented proof that Obama is either a natural born citizen of America or a naturalized citizen. Either of which disqualify him as a Presidential candidate. There is currently a Federal lawsuit that is challenging his citizenship. His grandmother reportedly witnessed his birth, in Kenya. No hospitals in Hawaii have a record of his birth, he and his family have different answers as to what hospital he was born in. All Obama has to do is produce a real birth certificate, he hasn’t yet and refused to in the Federal Courts. Didn’t anyone think to check on this before throwing their support behind him? The fake “Certificate of Live Birth” that was released before was a nice attempt, but a legitimate birth certificate would shut me up.:stick:

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jeff95TA](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jeff95ta/32/5935_2.png) [@Jeff95TA](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jeff95TA)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/18 "2008-10-09T17:56:00Z")

</div>

> **[FACT CHECK: Barack Obama Birth Certificate](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/birth-certificate/)**
>
> Is Barack Obama's birth certificate a forgery?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![77rednecktruck](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/77rednecktruck/32/5966_2.png) [@77rednecktruck](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/77rednecktruck)\
**Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/19 "2008-10-09T18:07:40Z")

</div>

> [@Election Day](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/election-day/38270/16):
>
> This discussion may be irrelevant soon, there is still no documented proof that Obama is either a natural born citizen of America or a naturalized citizen. Either of which disqualify him as a Presidential candidate. There is currently a Federal lawsuit that is challenging his citizenship. His grandmother reportedly witnessed his birth, in Kenya. No hospitals in Hawaii have a record of his birth, he and his family have different answers as to what hospital he was born in. All Obama has to do is produce a real birth certificate, he hasn’t yet and refused to in the Federal Courts. Didn’t anyone think to check on this before throwing their support behind him? The fake “Certificate of Live Birth” that was released before was a nice attempt, but a legitimate birth certificate would shut me up.:stick:

That would be some funny shit. I would love to have McCain go on live tv and say that Obama is not a citizen, please try again. 🤣

I doubt he would have made it this far if the certificate was false though.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kilmer420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/d6d6ee/32.png) [@kilmer420](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/kilmer420)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054/20 "2008-10-10T11:30:25Z")

</div>

> [@GOT FMIC?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/got-fmic/38228/27):
>
> there are no small government candidates in this race. At least with Obama, he proposes to do something with our money, other than sink even more of it into defense which McCain will do. And if his foreign policy cred works out and America can be respected once more as a nation, maybe we can safely downsize the defense department budget. We pay a shit-ton of taxes now. There’s no reason why we cannot cut out enough wasteful spending to get ourselves out of this mess. Of course, this all assumes the dollar is worth the paper it’s printed on by the time O’Bama is sworn in.

The dollar is growing stronger as we speak with this global crisis!

> [@Fast B-bodies](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/fast-b-bodies/38266/10):
>
> I cannot believe a libetarian is voting for Obama, that’s just shameful.
> 
> Do you really think a democrat will shrink the gov to normal levels?

What has the current administration, mind you a Republican one which originally believed in small business/gov, has done with the expansion of gov? Ed Zackary!

[Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/taxes-the-election-and-you/200054.md?page=2)