# The "Friction Circle"..on a bike...in the rain..wow. **URL:** https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414 **Category:** Shift518 Automotive **Created:** [October 7, 2008, 6:22am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414 "2008-10-07T06:22:51Z") **Posts on this page:** 20 **Page:** 1
### Author: ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 6:22am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/1 "2008-10-07T06:22:51Z")
Yo Lew - Remember talking about the “friction circle” at Calabogie? This guy…uh…gets it. [youtube=425,350]\\\\\\\\[/youtube] ---
### Author: ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/2 "2008-10-07T06:31:04Z")
PS: Here’s some phenomenally bad news: [http://f1.uk.reuters.com/f1/news/India-358400-1.php](http://f1.uk.reuters.com/f1/news/India-358400-1.php) Any other pro race that cool we can go to in June? :🙂 F U Bernie. ---
### Author: ![Lew](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/lew/32/6402_2.png) [@Lew](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Lew) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 7:41am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/3 "2008-10-07T07:41:45Z")
OK that guy is officialy my hero. WTF on the canadaian grand prix!! I hate Bernie, he is ruining everything. ---
### Author: ![skiboard06](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@skiboard06](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/skiboard06) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/4 "2008-10-07T07:44:39Z")
Never seen anyone counter-steer on a bike. Incredible control, that guy is solid. —\> insert video of lightly modded sedan rocketing by him in the rain. ---
### Author: ![Lew](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/lew/32/6402_2.png) [@Lew](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Lew) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 7:48am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/5 "2008-10-07T07:48:19Z")
OK, so there is no north American grand prix next year. WTF. There is no way the teams can like that, North America is if not their top markets it is near the top. From sponsors and manufactures point of view that has to suck missing out on being shown in one of the largest markets. ---
### Author: ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 7:55am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/6 "2008-10-07T07:55:01Z")
According to the article, the justification was to move Turkey to August and “give the teams a summer break.” :🙂 ---
### Author: ![rchiplock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@rchiplock](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/rchiplock) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 7:56am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/7 "2008-10-07T07:56:09Z")
that is one talented man on 2 wheels ---
### Author: ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 7:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/8 "2008-10-07T07:57:32Z")
> [@skiboard06](#): > > Never seen anyone counter-steer on a bike. Incredible control, that guy is solid. > > —\> insert video of lightly modded sedan rocketing by him in the rain. Counter-steering on the bike aka “Backing it in” is somewhat common in the motorcycle world but obviously not preferred as Grip \> Drift, and if drifting in cars was challenging enough on motorcycles you add balance into the equation so it’s obviously a last case scenario. In the wet, yep a car would blow by him with proper tires, in the dry it could be a whole another story. ---
### Author: ![Lew](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/lew/32/6402_2.png) [@Lew](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Lew) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/9 "2008-10-07T08:00:13Z")
> [@JClark](#): > > According to the article, the justification was to move Turkey to August and “give the teams a summer break.” :🙂 A summer break… If I ever see Bernie I am drop kicking him in the nuts. ---
### Author: ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:04am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/10 "2008-10-07T08:04:18Z")
A few examples [youtube=425,350]3HZNaZ24pYI[/youtube] Good footage which shows why it’s not too common [youtube=425,350]LDme\_9lMQe4[/youtube] ---
### Author: ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:07am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/11 "2008-10-07T08:07:09Z")
> [@Vovchandr](#): > > In the wet, yep a car would blow by him with proper tires, in the dry it could be a whole another story. Doubt it. 4 tires \> 2 and Donnington is a small track. ---
### Author: ![Lew](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/lew/32/6402_2.png) [@Lew](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Lew) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:11am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/12 "2008-10-07T08:11:07Z")
It’s basic math 4\>2 ---
### Author: ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/13 "2008-10-07T08:13:45Z")
> [@JClark](#): > > Doubt it. 4 tires \> 2 and Donnington is a small track. Wasn’t aware of that. In general bikes are at a disadvantage against track dedicated cars. They just have an advantage in the real world with acceleration and handling against average cars. It’s been proven that Super car \> Super bike on track ☹ [youtube=425,350]VXTeGMFf4Ko[/youtube] [youtube=425,350]q5DMmRp8KVI[/youtube] ---
### Author: ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/14 "2008-10-07T08:18:17Z")
> [@Lew](#): > > It’s basic math 4\>2 Let’s not get carried away it’s not that simple and the physics are completely different between the two. In car’s scenario you need 4 tires of grip to force ~2500 pounds to change direction in a turn and keep it on the track. In the bikes scenario the bike’s lean angle forces it to go through the turn. However while in the car is only limited by the grip which can always be upgraded, the bike is limited by the lean angle as top speed through the turn and eventually it just cannot lean anymore to make it through no matter how much you lean off the bike. ---
### Author: ![GranMassaX](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/granmassax/32/6299_2.png) [@GranMassaX](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/GranMassaX) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/15 "2008-10-07T08:18:26Z")
there is a top gear episode where they put a race bike up against a stock carrera4s (not that fast of a car) and the carrera beats it. Unless the track is WIDE open with several LONG straits then the car will always win. ---
### Author: ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:20am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/16 "2008-10-07T08:20:11Z")
> [@GranMassaX](#): > > there is a top gear episode where they put a race bike up against a stock carrera4s (not that fast of a car) and the carrera beats it. Unless the track is WIDE open with several LONG straits then the car will always win. Oh I agree, but I’m just saying that it’s not as simple as “4 wheels of grip \> 2” Just found this though, the track isn’t all straights either [youtube=425,350]bjG51\_L6o6s[/youtube] The bike stayed behind and matched the car the entire time and took over on the straight away and it’s game over. :nana ---
### Author: ![Lew](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/lew/32/6402_2.png) [@Lew](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Lew) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:22am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/17 "2008-10-07T08:22:58Z")
Oh, I know it’s not the simple. I think the car’s greatest advantage in cornering is its ability to rotate. I am sure bike’s can do that too but does it provide as much as an advantage as a car rotating? ( I don’t know anything about bikes) ---
### Author: ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/18 "2008-10-07T08:25:40Z")
Completely not towards any side here as I stay neutral in this case, but the result wasn’t what I was expecting. Bike VS Formula 1 car [youtube=425,350]0HGZ7IscdYQ[/youtube] That’s just inspiring to even watch :wow ---
### Author: ![JClark](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jclark/32/6309_2.png) [@JClark](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JClark) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:26am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/19 "2008-10-07T08:26:57Z")
A car will have greater stopping ability, cornering ability, and ability to put power down, but not by a huge margin. Where a car gains a huge advantage is being able to combine all those elements at once. It goes back to the friction circle. A car can brake hard AND corner moreso than a bike can. Cars can enter the corners factor, hold the speed longer, and put the power down earlier (2 rear wheels = differential = grip). Once the bike puts power down with an insane power to weight ratio it will gain ground in the straights. ---
### Author: ![eeshnips](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/eeshnips/32/6395_2.png) [@eeshnips](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/eeshnips) #### Post date: [October 7, 2008, 8:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414/20 "2008-10-07T08:27:06Z")
the guy in the first video is nasty [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-friction-circle-on-a-bike-in-the-rain-wow/239414.md?page=2)