# The new fuel economy standards congress passed **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [December 18, 2007, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451 "2007-12-18T12:02:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![reliant\_turbo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/reliant_turbo/32/7189_2.png) [@reliant\_turbo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/reliant_turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/81 "2007-12-19T19:17:57Z")
> [@Rx3](#): > > Unnecessary fuel consumption is evil so to speak. Resources will run out at some point. that isnt proven either. theres been quite a few oil wells seeming to “regenerate” when at first deemed dry. and you sure wont get an unbiased test on how fast oil is reproduced. there will always be another form of energy as energy cannot be created or destroyed. what is there will always be there. its up to us to adapt if things change rather than be pussies and fear the future. > [@Nikuk](#): > > its funny that you use the term bottom line. > > Bottom line is that while some of our corporations profit Billions, they could profit even more if a huge chunk of revenue didn’t have to walk out the door get on a boat and go overseas. > > Bottom line is that unemployment rates might actually go down if there is a sudden & justifiable boom in a stateside industry. > Not to mention the possibility of that industry supporting the aforementionted industry. > > Bottomline is that the gvt has to protect the future of the country, and it’s citizens. Could that mean decreasing pollution? Sure, why couldn’t it? > > The government is responsible for the Dwight D Eisenhower interstate highway system. Regulating the primary users of that system effects the bottom line (maintenance, design, failures, death rates, the effect of lost productivity on businesses & therefor citizens, etc…). > > The government is elected (regardless of the faults in the system) by the citizens. If enough of the highly visible constituents demand that the gov’t look at regulating mileage, then it must do so. > > I could quite easily go on… but I would hope that you are starting to see the light outside of your mousehole. > > oh, and IB4YourConspiracyTheory you thought you were so smart with that little discourse on how the govt works. try again. i have no conspiracy theory. i didnt ask the govt to create the road systems. private business does things alot better than the govt many times cause they have accountability to someone running the business. the govt doesnt really report to the people and often overstep their bounds with inefficient ways of doing things, ie wasting what we provide for them. NYS is ridiculous with all kinds of unneeded mandates from Albany and politician pet projects. who then has to foot the bill for things they dont need and govt workers taking naps on the job? taxpayers. and when the budget doesnt balance cause there is more projects and more and more waste? more taxes. once you are in Albany, its almost impossible to get tossed out even if you are caught doing nasty things. the problem is that the constituents dont look at regulating mileage. some loudmouth politician dreams up a stupid scheme like global warming to coerce folks into agreeing with thier pet projects and you guys drink the koolaid right up. im not buying it. there is too much evidence against it. for the last 50 years all there predictions of doom have been proven false. dont get me wrong, i dont like wasting money on inefficient vehicles. i like getting 39mpg on the highway in my turbo k car. i like the way my car runs on a good e85 tune. its just not the governments place to tell the automakers what kind of cars they can and cannot produce. the market should dictate that. and dont tell me that everyone in this market wants a prius cause thats bullshit. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Rx3](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rx3/32/7194_2.png) [@Rx3](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Rx3)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/82 "2007-12-19T19:27:55Z")
> [@reliant\_turbo](#): > > that isnt proven either. theres been quite a few oil wells seeming to “regenerate” when at first deemed dry. And they take time to “regenerate”. Who says they will be able to if we continue or even increase our demand? You really want to rely on resources “seeming to regenerate” ? ---
**Author:** ![JoesTypeS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joestypes/32/7190_2.png) [@JoesTypeS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JoesTypeS)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/83 "2007-12-19T19:43:52Z")
Going “green” / “greener” is something America MUST do. If Americans need to pay more for this to happen then SO BE IT. SACRIFICE is necessary sometimes. Americans are the most selfish people on the fucking planet. Hell I’d pay a $2000/yr tax to drive my inefficient vehicle, as I should. Attitudes about “oh taxes, boo hoo” are the reason America is ON THE DOWNWARD SLIDE. Oh and PS - the BEST way to get people to create alternative fuel sources is to mandate that cars get ONE MPG. No more. Have fun filling your tank every 15 minutes…We’d be off petroleum in 2 years. > [@reliant\_turbo](#): > > Brian You’re an idiot. Please back up your claims with FACTS from reputable universities/institutions And yes, it is the governments place to attempt to SLOW DOWN THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PLANET ON WHICH WE LIVE. ---
**Author:** ![Violator](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/violator/32/7278_2.png) [@Violator](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Violator)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/84 "2007-12-19T19:53:33Z")
> [@JoesTypeS](#): > > Going “green” / “greener” is something America MUST do. If Americans need to pay more for this to happen then SO BE IT. > > SACRIFICE is necessary sometimes. > > **Americans are the most selfish people on the fucking planet. Hell I’d pay a $2000/yr tax to drive my inefficient vehicle, as I should.** > > Attitudes about “oh taxes, boo hoo” are the reason America is ON THE DOWNWARD SLIDE. > > Oh and PS - the BEST way to get people to create alternative fuel sources is to mandate that cars get ONE MPG. No more. Have fun filling your tank every 15 minutes…We’d be off petroleum in 2 years. > > You’re an idiot. Please back up your claims with FACTS from reputable universities/institutions > > And yes, it is the governments place to attempt to SLOW DOWN THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PLANET ON WHICH WE LIVE. TOTALLY agree ---
**Author:** ![reliant\_turbo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/reliant_turbo/32/7189_2.png) [@reliant\_turbo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/reliant_turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 6:46am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/85 "2007-12-20T06:46:59Z")
> [@JoesTypeS](#): > > Going “green” / “greener” is something America MUST do. If Americans need to pay more for this to happen then SO BE IT. > > SACRIFICE is necessary sometimes. wrong. the problem is that the people that propose the laws are the last people that actually sacrifice. its total crap and hypocrisy. > [@JoesTypeS](#): > > You’re an idiot. Please back up your claims with FACTS from reputable universities/institutions thats a waste of my time. if its not a liberal university/institution you retards wont accept the evidence, and no liberal university/institution will publish anything like that even when its true cause then theyll look like the idiots that they are. if you want to be a green tree hugging hippie, so be it, but its not the governments place to make me be one too. you may want socialism but i sure dont. > [@JoesTypeS](#): > > And yes, it is the governments place to attempt to SLOW DOWN THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PLANET ON WHICH WE LIVE. there is no proof that we are destroying the environment with vehicles that burn gasoline. its a big hoax powered by fools like you. Brian ---
**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/86 "2007-12-20T07:02:59Z")
Have you actually attended a university? ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 7:08am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/87 "2007-12-20T07:08:43Z")
According to China, living green is a luxury. China is the worst poluter on the planet. You want taxes for cleanlieness? TAX THE FUCK OUT OF CHINESE IMPORTS! ---
**Author:** ![Bigairskier1580](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bigairskier1580/32/7612_2.png) [@Bigairskier1580](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Bigairskier1580)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 7:26am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/88 "2007-12-20T07:26:40Z")
> [@reliant\_turbo](#): > > there is no proof that we are destroying the environment with vehicles that burn gasoline. its a big hoax powered by fools like you. > > Brian Yes, because pollution is a big hoax. :smash2: ---
**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 7:40am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/89 "2007-12-20T07:40:07Z")
> [@AWDrifter](#): > > According to China, living green is a luxury. > > China is the worst poluter on the planet. > > You want taxes for cleanlieness? TAX THE FUCK OUT OF CHINESE IMPORTS! Then who would we borrow money from? ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/90 "2007-12-20T12:13:18Z")
> [@reliant\_turbo](#): > > there is no proof that we are destroying the environment with vehicles that burn gasoline. its a big hoax powered by fools like you. > > Brian alright, prove it wrong. Go inhale deeply from a tailpipe for a couple days - an autopsy should be infailable proof one way or another. FTR - I am no liberal Brian ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/91 "2007-12-20T12:13:35Z")
> [@RedGoober4Life](#): > > Then who would we borrow money from? lol ---
**Author:** ![Rx3](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rx3/32/7194_2.png) [@Rx3](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Rx3)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/92 "2007-12-20T12:14:03Z")
> [@RedGoober4Life](#): > > Then who would we borrow money from? The Chinese, at a higher interest rate. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/93 "2007-12-20T12:18:47Z")
> [@Rx3](#): > > The Chinese, at a higher interest rate. YOU STOP IT WITH YOUR LOGIC ---
**Author:** ![traumadog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@traumadog](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/traumadog)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/94 "2007-12-20T13:36:11Z")
CAFE, and the underlying principle behind it, is a joke as meaningful legislation to reduce foreign importation of oil. For those who look at barrels imported/day, from 1975 (when CAFE was enacted) to 1985 (when the regulations were in full force), actual imported barrels/day dropped from about 4,000 to ~3,000. However, since then, they’ve climbed to nearly 10,000 today. (see: [http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/data.exe/doeme/coimpus](http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/data.exe/doeme/coimpus) ) And what’s driving this (pun intended)? Average annual miles driven. This in the US has steadily increased, resulting in overall increases in consumption - despite improving MPG averages from 14 to 27. (See: [http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/1998/0798breslow.html](http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/1998/0798breslow.html) ) So unless there’s a mechanism to dis-incentivize usage of gasoline (e.g. higher prices), then any efficiency mandate will be meaningless. Oh, and one reason why the domestics got behind this legislation is a little-publicized part - California (via CARB) won’t be able to set their own CO2 standards vs. the EPA. Therefore, designing a car for the USDM became alot easier. Oh, and before anyone freaks, this 35 MPG limit is the one using the old EPA testing regimen, which works out closer to 27-28 real-world MPG - something relatively easily do-able in the short-term. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/95 "2007-12-20T13:42:44Z")
> [@traumadog](#): > > … snip… What do you do for a living again? You often seem to have a lot of details about automotive regulations and laws that no one else does. And :lol: that they’re using the old EPA test method. Since hybrids were basically designed just to ace that test getting a 35mpg fleet average shouldn’t be any problem at all. No wonder the car manufactures backed off their big protests. This is looking more and more like feel good patting yourself on the back politics and less about actually cutting our consumption. ---
**Author:** ![Nikuk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/nikuk/32/7254_2.png) [@Nikuk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Nikuk)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/96 "2007-12-20T13:44:22Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > This is looking more and more like feel good patting yourself on the back politics and less about actually cutting our consumption. Quoted for truth. sigh. ---
**Author:** ![reliant\_turbo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/reliant_turbo/32/7189_2.png) [@reliant\_turbo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/reliant_turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/97 "2007-12-20T13:51:54Z")
> [@Nikuk](#): > > alright, prove it wrong. Go inhale deeply from a tailpipe for a couple days - an autopsy should be infailable proof one way or another. > > FTR - I am no liberal Brian thats a silly argument imo… eat mcdonalds for a month and youll die too, inject one droplet of nicotine into your bloodstream and youll die too, breathe pure car exhaust and youll die due to the fact that the O2 has been used up in the combustion process and no longer is available for your lungs to absorb far faster than youll die of toxins. the CO2 produced in combustion just happens to be great fuel for trees :shrug: I wasnt saying you were, but somehow i have a feeling that dead elephant man is… 🙂 > [@Bigairskier1580](#): > > Yes, because pollution is a big hoax. > > :smash2: no, pollution is real. companies dumping chemicals into rivers, nuclear waste, mercury etc… but ridiculously low amounts of CO2 and NOx produced by a car is not going to have the drastic effects that everyone thinks it is. :shrug: > **[The Global Warming Myth?](https://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3061015)** > > Instead of panicking over climate change, we should adjust to it. > [@RedGoober4Life](#): > > Have you actually attended a university? dont let the Lawrence fool you… BSEE and documented tested IQ of 150. you can absorb all the media global warming frenzy all you want. i choose to think rather than feel. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Bigairskier1580](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bigairskier1580/32/7612_2.png) [@Bigairskier1580](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Bigairskier1580)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/98 "2007-12-20T13:54:55Z")
> [@Nikuk](#): > > alright, prove it wrong. Go inhale deeply from a tailpipe for a couple days - an autopsy should be infailable proof one way or another. I had virtually the same thing typed up this morning, but went a different route. ---
**Author:** ![Rx3](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/rx3/32/7194_2.png) [@Rx3](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Rx3)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/99 "2007-12-20T13:57:56Z")
> [@traumadog](#): > > CAFE, and the underlying principle behind it, is a joke as meaningful legislation to reduce foreign importation of oil. > > For those who look at barrels imported/day, from 1975 (when CAFE was enacted) to 1985 (when the regulations were in full force), actual imported barrels/day dropped from about 4,000 to ~3,000. However, since then, they’ve climbed to nearly 10,000 today. > > (see: [http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/data.exe/doeme/coimpus](http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/data.exe/doeme/coimpus) ) > > And what’s driving this (pun intended)? Average annual miles driven. This in the US has steadily increased, resulting in overall increases in consumption - despite improving MPG averages from 14 to 27. > > (See: [I Want My Ford Explorer! | Dollars & Sense](http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/1998/0798breslow.html) ) > > So unless there’s a mechanism to dis-incentivize usage of gasoline (e.g. higher prices), then any efficiency mandate will be meaningless. > > Oh, and one reason why the domestics got behind this legislation is a little-publicized part - California (via CARB) won’t be able to set their own CO2 standards vs. the EPA. Therefore, designing a car for the USDM became alot easier. > > Oh, and before anyone freaks, this 35 MPG limit is the one using the old EPA testing regimen, which works out closer to 27-28 real-world MPG - something relatively easily do-able in the short-term. Wow, good stuff :tup: ---
**Author:** ![traumadog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@traumadog](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/traumadog)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451/100 "2007-12-20T19:59:16Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > What do you do for a living again? You often seem to have a lot of details about automotive regulations and laws that no one else does. > > And :lol: that they’re using the old EPA test method. Since hybrids were basically designed just to ace that test getting a 35mpg fleet average shouldn’t be any problem at all. No wonder the car manufactures backed off their big protests. This is looking more and more like feel good patting yourself on the back politics and less about actually cutting our consumption. The ability to do research comes with my job… I just happen to be an “auto enthusiast” too, so switching from medical sites to auto ones is easy… lol And FWIW, I’m a registered independent, have owned a permit and regularly fired rifles; replaced all my lights with compact fluorescents, have a new energy-star furnace, encourage recycling, and burn through lots of gasoline in my “Munro”. :beer2: And personally, I think it’s asinine that politicians sell the great unwashed on CAFE as a “feel-good thing”, despite the fact that it doesn’t really work as intended. I’ve gotten alot of comments that CAFE has indeed saved oil/gas, and yet noone can counter the fact that we’re importing more oil and selling more gas than ever. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-new-fuel-economy-standards-congress-passed/40451.md?page=6)