# The Trump Presidency Discussion Thread (Non-Meme version) **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic\ **Created:** [December 12, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441 "2016-12-12T13:42:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/281 "2017-01-31T16:45:40Z")
> [@LZ](#): > > What I don’t get is France, Belgium, and even Germany are fairly welcoming to immigrants from those countries and look how well that turned out for them? ![http://www.nyspeed.com/pictures/t15.jpg](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/3X/7/5/7511ed8680b84f1161b46111edc2b17bab3f9ce4.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/282 "2017-01-31T17:08:32Z")
h o l y s h i t ---
**Author:** ![nermoria](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9e5f3/32.png) [@nermoria](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/nermoria)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/283 "2017-01-31T17:12:14Z")
Just for clarification, most of my post was aimed at listening to a day of “Lady Liberty shed tears” and not at whatever you were saying 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Paulo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/paulo/32/7328_2.png) [@Paulo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Paulo)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/284 "2017-01-31T20:39:48Z")
> [@Onyx Z32](#): > > No I wasn’t implying you were being derogatory, only parroting the media narrative 🙂 I wasn’t the only one parroting the media narrative… > [@@realDonaldTrump](#): > > If the ban were announced with a one week notice, the “bad” would rush into our country during that week. A lot of bad “dudes” out there! [https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/826060143825666051](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/826060143825666051) ---
**Author:** ![superfan99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@superfan99](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/superfan99)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 3:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/285 "2017-02-01T03:34:42Z")
> [@joelster](#): > > I never understood why all of these middle east refugees have to come here. By “here” I mean hop on a plane and fly 4000 miles or whatever it is. Why not hop on a bus and go to Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Italy, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Denmark, etc, etc, etc, > > Why are we always the country that gets every others countries rejects and fleeing population? I’m sure there are some other countries that take in refugees as well, but our own population is out of control. > > Not to age myself here, but I distinctly remember being in school (jr high or earlier), and our population right after a census was 235,000,000. Now we are at 330,000,000. Doesn’t that alarm any of you? The US only accepts a relatively small number of refugees. The majority of them\* are in the countries you listed. This is a little older, but you get the idea. > **[How the U.S. compares with other countries taking in refugees](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/09/24/how-the-u-s-compares-with-other-countries-taking-in-refugees/)** > > Europe is struggling to manage the hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing conflicts in the Middle East and Africa, but the countries closest to the fighting face the biggest impacts. \*EDIT: and by them, I mean Syrian refugees. There’s hundreds of thousands of Syrian refugees in Europe. IIRC, there are millions of Syrian refugees in Turkey. The US brought in around 12,000 last year, and the allotment Obama was looking for was around 10,000. ---
**Author:** ![superfan99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@superfan99](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/superfan99)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 5:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/286 "2017-02-01T05:57:48Z")
> [@nermoria](#): > > I came into the USA as a refugee, what NPR lists as the process is not what I went through. How long ago did you come over? > [@nermoria](#): > > Who the hell said America owes anything to refugees, people in hardship etc. around the globe? First and foremost, the US government is responsible for the well being of the US Citizens. Or what, just because they request it, they are entitled to it? That’s complete bullshit, the USA doesn’t owe anybody shit, if we want to, we accept people, if we don’t, that’s our choice to make. > > And don’t get me started with “This goes against everything American and the history of our founding.” Well yes, how about you actually use the brain that you have and recall history. Legal migrants. Migrants that were accepted, we have a certain quota we let in which fluctuates. Quit putting all immigrants in the same boat. America was founded on immigrants like me, not illegal aliens or people who felt that the USA owed it to them to take them in. The values our nation was founded on are embeded in the preamble of the Declaration of Independance. I’ll save you the search. “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness” There are those of us that also belive it’s out duty as a nation to ensure not just Americans, but the world as a whole should have every oportunity to achive those rights as well. I agree on illegal immigration, but that’s not really what we’re talking about. > [@nermoria](#): > > There are 7 billion people in the world, we can’t take care of everyone out there. Especially when we have people living in boxes on our own streets. Anybody grasping for the whole “undo hardships for those in need” is just grasping at shit. If the regular immigration process doesn’t allow you to come in? Tough shit! Move on! If that was the answer I was given, I would move on and deal with it like a man and not like some bloody entitled asshole. 90% of my family is still overseas and taking shits in outhouses. I’m not going to try to smuggle them in illegally. I was given the chance, they weren’t. Tough luck. Hell, looking at these protests going on now, maybe I should have waited a couple years and had my wife come in like all these people flooding in right now. I would have $80k more in the bank account that’s for sure. No, we certainly can’t take care of everyone, but there are those of us that beleive we should help where we can. Whether that’s becuase of our faith or personal convictions. I advocate for social programs to help those in need. I volunteer and donate resources where I can. I grew up just above the poverty line, and I’m doing pretty well for myself, so I do what I can to help. I refused to be cowed by the sort of cowardice so many people express based on misinformation, or plain ingnorance. I have a far better chance of getting struck by lightning or killed by a drunk driver or boater than being killed by a refugee. Your whole post leads me to one question. What makes you worthy to come here as a refugee and not anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![nermoria](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9e5f3/32.png) [@nermoria](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/nermoria)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 6:10am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/287 "2017-02-01T06:10:39Z")
I also believe in helping people around the world but that doesn’t mean we are obliged to help every single person that asks for it. I came in 98 as part of a refugee program in Russia for persecuted Christians. I am talking about illegal immigrants, that’s why I say people like me who went through the process legally (twice in my case) and if I was turned away in 98, I would have respect the USA government decision and would not have acted like the US owes it to take me in. My point is , don’t lump illegal immigrants and legal ones in the same box. Putting a hold on immigration from 7 countries does not betray our Americanism. If there was a halt on immigration from the whole for the next year or more, I would have a problem with that unless it was temporary in order to put in place a new immigration system that isn’t as stupid as it is now. Dont get me started on the love letters, dating pictures etc I had to provide to the state department to bring my wife here Again, we all know that it is just a sensationalized talking point for one party. The idea that halting immigration indefinitely from one country and temporary from a few others for a few months is this great evil is dumb. How do you get anything done if you can’t control your own immigration system when it’s needed? It makes no sense. Which brings me to something else, 99% of these people don’t want to be here in the USA. If their country was not ravaged by certain forces, they would never have come here in the first place or ever wanted to and that’s actually aomething I listened to many times on BBC last year. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 6:21am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/288 "2017-02-01T06:21:51Z")
> [@superfan99](#): > > There are those of us that also belive it’s out duty as a nation to ensure not just Americans, but the world as a whole should have every oportunity to achive those rights as well. I think this is where most of our current divide on immigration/foreign policy comes from. There’s a lot of people in the country, myself included, that are tired of the cost and fallout from trying to push our ideals on the rest of the world. The United States, or any nation for that matter, needs to stop acting like every other country in the world should believe what we believe and if they don’t they must be saved. Concentrate on providing life, liberty **and the pursuit** of happiness here at home and let the rest of the world chase their own dreams. And yes, I bolded **pursuit** for a reason. Far too many in this country think the founding fathers meant to guarantee them happiness and they’re entitled to it. No, you’re not. You’re entitled to life and liberty which provide you the opportunity to bust your ass and earn some happiness. Happiness isn’t a right or a guarantee, only the pursuit of it. It’s on you to go out and get it. ---
**Author:** ![nermoria](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9e5f3/32.png) [@nermoria](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/nermoria)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 6:45am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/289 "2017-02-01T06:45:26Z")
And that’s what I believe. What do they tell you to do when a plane goes down? Save yourself first, then worry about others. Same logic applies here. US citizens come first. The whole America First concept. At this point the nation has to be rebuilt from the inside. 20 years ago I was amazed at America, today we are in dire need of a refresh. Just believing in “American ideals” won’t mean a thing if we are falling apart. ---
**Author:** ![superfan99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@superfan99](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/superfan99)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:08am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/290 "2017-02-01T07:08:06Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > I think this is where most of our current divide on immigration/foreign policy comes from. There’s a lot of people in the country, myself included, that are tired of the cost and fallout from trying to push our ideals on the rest of the world. The United States, or any nation for that matter, needs to stop acting like every other country in the world should believe what we believe and if they don’t they must be saved. Concentrate on providing life, liberty **and the pursuit** of happiness here at home and let the rest of the world chase their own dreams. And yes, I bolded **pursuit** for a reason. Far too many in this country think the founding fathers meant to guarantee them happiness and they’re entitled to it. No, you’re not. You’re entitled to life and liberty which provide you the opportunity to bust your ass and earn some happiness. Happiness isn’t a right or a guarantee, only the pursuit of it. It’s on you to go out and get it. Please don’t mistake my intent. I’m not saying we should enforce that on the rest of the world. I’m not in favor of America in a role as “World Police”, or military adventurism typically pushed by Fiscal Conservatives™. I think we should help people, where we can, who are attempting to escape tyranny, war or oppression. I think the refugee program is one of the places we can do that. In other words, helping others part of our pursuit of happiness. By our, I’m referring to people in support of helping refugees, etc. Not the nation as a whole. Clearly, not everyone shares that view. I think there’s a lot of misinformation out there and fear mongering, but that just helps sell emergency food, NRA memberships, and home security systems. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:14am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/291 "2017-02-01T07:14:46Z")
> [@superfan99](#): > > By our, I’m referring to people in support of helping refugees, etc. **Not the nation as a whole.** Then our current policy of trying to resettle refugees here should go. Let the people who want to help organized a charity and let that charity pay to help resettle refugees somewhere. If the US can’t vet them properly help settle them somewhere else or help them in their own country. Bottom line there are a majority of people in this country that don’t want the government spending the tax dollars they took from them helping people from some other part of the world. That’s America First in a nutshell and Trump won by yelling it every chance he got. To quote Obama, “Elections have consequences”. ---
**Author:** ![superfan99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@superfan99](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/superfan99)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/292 "2017-02-01T07:34:36Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > Then our current policy of trying to resettle refugees here should go. Let the people who want to help organized a charity and let that charity pay to help resettle refugees somewhere. If the US can’t vet them properly help settle them somewhere else or help them in their own country. Bottom line there are a majority of people in this country that don’t want the government spending the tax dollars they took from them helping people from some other part of the world. That’s America First in a nutshell and Trump won by yelling it every chance he got. To quote Obama, “Elections have consequences”. Charities are already pretty heavily involved, but it still requires government involvement (background checks, etc). There’s also data to support that over the long term refugees (particularly those in America) lead to a net gain in economy, rather than being a long term drain on it. I disagree that the majority is opposed; Trump did lose the popular vote. There’s a lot of people that don’t think we should be spending as much as we are on the defense budget for boondoggles like the f-35 when there’s a completely competent fleet of aircraft that can do the job better and cheaper. You don’t really get to pick and choose what your tax dollars are spent on any more than I do. We all have to compromise. ---
**Author:** ![Paulo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/paulo/32/7328_2.png) [@Paulo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Paulo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:36am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/293 "2017-02-01T07:36:39Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > …tired of the cost and fallout from trying to push our ideals on the rest of the world. I think everyone is tired of that, but that’s not what is happening in this case. People are seeking refuge here because of the conditions in their home countries. We aren’t forcing them to come here or adopt our culture abroad. ---
**Author:** ![LZ1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LZ1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LZ1)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:40am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/294 "2017-02-01T07:40:39Z")
> **[German Streets Descend into Lawlessness](https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9229/germany-lawlessness)** > > During the first six months of 2016, migrants committed 142,500 crimes, according to the Federal Criminal Police Office. This is equivalent to 780 crimes committed by migrants every day, an increase of nearly 40% over 2015. The data includes only... @JayS ^ ---
**Author:** ![superfan99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@superfan99](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/superfan99)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 7:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/295 "2017-02-01T07:59:27Z")
> [@LZ](#): > > [German Streets Descend into Lawlessness :: Gatestone Institute](https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9229/germany-lawlessness) > @**[JayS](http://www.nyspeed.com/member.php?u=661)** ^ “ **more than one million** mostly male migrants from Africa, Asia and the Middle East. **Few, if any, of the migrants were vetted** before being allowed to enter Germany.” Emphasis added. How’s that relevant to the US refugee program? ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/296 "2017-02-01T08:12:13Z")
> [@superfan99](#): > > I disagree that the majority is opposed; Trump did lose the popular vote. > **[Americans still support Donald Trump's immigration ban, poll shows](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/10/americans-still-support-donald-trumps-immigration-ban-poll-shows/)** > > Despite breaking records for the lowest approval ratings for a new President, Donald Trump's immigration ban is still backed by a majority of Americans, according to recent polling. > [@superfan99](#): > > You don’t really get to pick and choose what your tax dollars are spent on any more than I do. But you kinda do get to choose, when you vote. In this election we voted in a president who ran on America First, and spending tax dollars on refugees doesn’t fit that policy. Then we doubled down and gave him the house, senate and a bunch of governors too. Also, for the last time, I don’t give a damn about the popular vote because we don’t elect a president based on popular vote. Claiming Hillary would have won is like having @**[LZ](http://www.nyspeed.com/member.php?u=95)** and @**[joelster](http://www.nyspeed.com/member.php?u=293)** build drag cars then when LZ loses in the 1/4 mile having him tell joelster his car is faster around a road course and that’s what people care about so he should have won. They built their cars to drag race not run a road course so it’s irrelevant, just like Clinton and Trump built their campaigns around 270 electoral votes so popular vote is irrelevant. Would Clinton have won if they both ran a campaign chasing the popular vote instead of chasing 270 electoral votes? Who knows! They definitely would have been visiting different areas and spending money differently than they did though. ---
**Author:** ![fairgentleman\_Z](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/fairgentleman_z/32/7263_2.png) [@fairgentleman\_Z](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fairgentleman_Z)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/297 "2017-02-01T08:47:20Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > Claiming Hillary would have won is like having @**[LZ](http://www.nyspeed.com/member.php?u=95)** and @**[joelster](http://www.nyspeed.com/member.php?u=293)** build drag cars then when LZ loses in the 1/4 mile ET having him tell joelster his car is made more horsepower and had a higher trap speed. Races are won by who crosses the finish line first, not by how fast they crossed the finish line. Fixed. Stay within one category and the factors in that category. ---
**Author:** ![nermoria](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9e5f3/32.png) [@nermoria](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/nermoria)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/298 "2017-02-01T08:55:32Z")
^+1. The thing I don’t get is this, how did the Islamic majority in the country come together with the Democratic party? Or is that just what is made out to be the case? Islam and Democrats and Liberals couldn’t be further apart. It’s easier to convince a Christian than a Muslim on issues of homosexuality etc. The only thing that makes sense is that the majority of the Muslim community could care less about what happens and do not have the same Patriotic feelings that traditional Americans do. If the Democrats are relying on them to feel beholden or like they owe something to the Democratic party, they are in for a surprise and some extreme pains. At their core, the great majority of Muslims would fit the far right profile. We had some interesting conversations with some people in Lackawanna that my wife worked for a couple years ago. The only reason they supported Democrats was because it was more beneficial, whereas in terms of ideals, world view etc they were on different planets. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/299 "2017-02-01T09:56:27Z")
> [@fairgentleman Z](#): > > Fixed. > > Stay within one category and the factors in that category. :tup: ---
**Author:** ![superfan99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@superfan99](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/superfan99)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/300 "2017-02-01T10:24:49Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > [Americans still support Donald Trump's immigration ban, poll shows](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/01/americans-support-donald-trumps-immigration-ban-oppose-poll/) Wait, so we’re trusting polls again? Are we not doing phrasing anymore? > [@JayS](#): > > But you kinda do get to choose, when you vote. In this election we voted in a president who ran on America First, and spending tax dollars on refugees doesn’t fit that policy. Then we doubled down and gave him the house, senate and a bunch of governors too. > > Also, for the last time, I don’t give a damn about the popular vote because we don’t elect a president based on popular vote. Claiming Hillary would have won is like having @**[LZ](http://www.nyspeed.com/member.php?u=95)** and @**[joelster](http://www.nyspeed.com/member.php?u=293)** build drag cars then when LZ loses in the 1/4 mile having him tell joelster his car is faster around a road course and that’s what people care about so he should have won. They built their cars to drag race not run a road course so it’s irrelevant, just like Clinton and Trump built their campaigns around 270 electoral votes so popular vote is irrelevant. Would Clinton have won if they both ran a campaign chasing the popular vote instead of chasing 270 electoral votes? Who knows! They definitely would have been visiting different areas and spending money differently than they did though. Keep your electoral panties on. That was just a response to your majority comment. _“there are a majority of_ people _in this country”_ The electoral college is irrelevant in that context. - - - Updated - - - > [@nermoria](#): > > ^+1. The thing I don’t get is this, how did the Islamic majority in the country come together with the Democratic party? Or is that just what is made out to be the case? Islam and Democrats and Liberals couldn’t be further apart. It’s easier to convince a Christian than a Muslim on issues of homosexuality etc. The only thing that makes sense is that the majority of the Muslim community could care less about what happens and do not have the same Patriotic feelings that traditional Americans do. If the Democrats are relying on them to feel beholden or like they owe something to the Democratic party, they are in for a surprise and some extreme pains. At their core, the great majority of Muslims would fit the far right profile. > > We had some interesting conversations with some people in Lackawanna that my wife worked for a couple years ago. The only reason they supported Democrats was because it was more beneficial, whereas in terms of ideals, world view etc they were on different planets. I agree, most Muslims I know are definitely more conservative. I’m not really sure that this is strictly a liberal/conservative issue. There are a number of conservatives involved in refugee programs, particularly Catholics and other Christians. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441.md?page=16)