# The Trump Presidency Discussion Thread (Non-Meme version) **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic\ **Created:** [December 12, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441 "2016-12-12T13:42:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/601 "2017-03-22T12:01:56Z")
Single payer is never single payer. If the US goes to single payer tomorrow, anyone with the money to do so is still going to pay a for-profit company for insurance on top of it. There is no way anyone who’s used to our current system and has money is going to wait in line with everyone else. The unintended consequence of single payer is that it creates a two-tier medical system where the poor wait in lines to get care from lower skill / less experienced medical professionals and those who can afford it purchase supplementary or additional coverage that pays for them to access higher skilled / experienced medical professionals. This is already happening in the US. How many doctors in the US refuse to take Medicare or Medicaid patients because reimbursements are halved or more? Hell, if you live in NYC some of the best doctors don’t even take insurance at all because they’re the best at what they do and people will pay a market price. Having health insurance or “coverage” doesn’t guarantee you have access to health care. Equality of coverage doesn’t equal equality of care. > [@bing](#): > > … the single payer system is only better for poor people. One could make the argument that it’s not even that great for poor people. ![http://www.nyspeed.com/pictures/canwaittimes.jpg](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/3X/1/7/172b9f18f2e8f53e77d680d54b4ea949ac30fa98.jpeg) > **[Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada, 2016 Report](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2016)** > > Economic Freedom of the World > [@theblue](#): > > … poor people > [@boardjnky4](#): > > … poor people Medicaid. Let’s improve the government (tax payer) paid safety net we already have. ---
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/602 "2017-03-22T12:29:23Z")
> [@Onyx Z32](#): > > Single payer is never single payer. If the US goes to single payer tomorrow, anyone with the money to do so is still going to pay a for-profit company for insurance on top of it. There is no way anyone who’s used to our current system and has money is going to wait in line with everyone else. > > The unintended consequence of single payer is that it creates a two-tier medical system where the poor wait in lines to get care from lower skill / less experienced medical professionals and those who can afford it purchase supplementary or additional coverage that pays for them to access higher skilled / experienced medical professionals. > > This is already happening in the US. How many doctors in the US refuse to take Medicare or Medicaid patients because reimbursements are halved or more? Hell, if you live in NYC some of the best doctors don’t even take insurance at all because they’re the best at what they do and people will pay a market price. > > Having health insurance or “coverage” doesn’t guarantee you have access to health care. Equality of coverage doesn’t equal equality of care. > > One could make the argument that it’s not even that great for poor people. > > ![http://www.nyspeed.com/pictures/canwaittimes.jpg](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/speedlife/original/3X/1/7/172b9f18f2e8f53e77d680d54b4ea949ac30fa98.jpeg) > > [Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada, 2016 Report | Fraser Institute](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies/waiting-your-turn-wait-times-for-health-care-in-canada-2016) > > Medicaid. Let’s improve the government (tax payer) paid safety net we already have. Expanding medicaid is a good idea, but understand that in order to improve or expand medicaid you have to increase taxes. To put that less eloquently, poor people get free healthcare paid for by middle and upper class tax payers. You can skin the cat any way you’d like to, but at the end of the day SOMEONE has to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Paulo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/paulo/32/7328_2.png) [@Paulo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Paulo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/603 "2017-03-22T12:35:28Z")
@Onyx_Z32 Did you come across any other data for wait times in the US? I found this: > A [study](http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/Shea_hltsysperformanceselectednations_chartpack.pdf) by the Commonwealth Fund, a nonpartisan research foundation that promotes improved health care access and quality, showed that 57 percent of adults in Canada who needed a specialist said they waited more than four weeks for an appointment, versus only 23 percent who said so in the U.S. For emergency physician visits, 23 percent of Canadians and 30 percent of Americans said they could get in to see the doctor the same day, but 23 percent of Americans and 36 percent of Canadians waited more than six days. Wait times for elective and non-emergency surgery were even more disparate: Thirty-three percent of Canadians reported a wait time of more than four months, but only 8 percent of Americans had to wait that long. > **[Comparing Health Care in Canada to the U.S. - FactCheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/comparing-health-care-in-canada-to-the-us/)** > > Q: Is health care better in Canada? A: Wait times are longer in Canada, but health and doctor quality don’t seem to suffer. FULL QUESTION Is health care better in Canada than in the U.S., or is it true when they say universal coverage leads to long... It’s certainly less than ideal, but I’m not sure anyone is saying our system should be just like Canada’s. I always felt that at least having the public option would have been the best way to cover people. (Which I think was in the original version of the ACA) People in here have mentioned already, and they’re right, that you end up with a two-tiered system but isn’t some care better than no care at all? The simple truth is that millions of deserving people cannot afford health care. They would love to have the benefit of a great paying job with benefits, but there aren’t enough of those jobs out there. And of course there are shitty people who abuse those things. That goes for everything. Should everyone lose their license because of the idiots who drink and drive? ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/604 "2017-03-22T12:36:44Z")
> [@boardjnky4](#): > > … poor people get free healthcare paid for by middle and upper class tax payers. No different that what’s already going on. The only debate should be at what point Medicade doesn’t apply to an individual. ---
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/605 "2017-03-22T12:38:41Z")
> [@Onyx Z32](#): > > **No different that what’s already going on.** The only debate should be at what point Medicade doesn’t apply to an individual. winner winner chicken dinner. So you’re proposing something that does the same thing that the current thing is already doing. Look, I’m not saying that the current system is great, or that it was great before ACA or that AHCA is great. I’m not saying that any of them are terrible either. But the entire country seems to be under some belief that we can cover 100% of our population AND bring down costs at the same time. Not. Going. To. Happen. Get used the high costs. They’ll either come in the form of premiums, deductibles or taxes. Or some combination. ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/606 "2017-03-22T12:41:56Z")
> [@boardjnky4](#): > > winner winner chicken dinner. So you’re proposing something that does the same thing that the current thing is already doing. What am I proposing? ---
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/607 "2017-03-22T12:47:11Z")
> [@Onyx Z32](#): > > What am I proposing? Getting rid of ACA and replacing it with free market + expanded medicaid… correct me if I’m wrong? ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/608 "2017-03-22T12:56:38Z")
So Nunes today says they have plenty of evidence that the intelligence community was monitoring people associated with the Trump campaign today… To be honest, i dont know why anyone would say there was no wiretapping going on. everyone is being watched to some degree. ---
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/609 "2017-03-22T13:05:29Z")
> [@bing](#): > > So Nunes today says they have plenty of evidence that the intelligence community was monitoring people associated with the Trump campaign today… > > To be honest, i dont know why anyone would say there was no wiretapping going on. everyone is being watched to some degree. “Incidental”, similar to other times this same stuff has come up. Nobody has any privacy anymore, especially anyone that is speaking to a foreign government. ---
**Author:** ![Onyx\_Z32](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/onyx_z32/32/7581_2.png) [@Onyx\_Z32](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Onyx_Z32)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/610 "2017-03-22T13:13:12Z")
> [@Paulo](#): > > … I’m not sure anyone is saying our system should be just like Canada’s. The big disparity is with specialists, not so much access to emergency care or well care. For example my Canadian girlfriend waited 6+ months for a specialist procedure she could have had done here in 2 weeks. No, not everyone is saying we need exactly Canada’s health care system but I’d say most on the left agree with its basic principles. > [@Paulo](#): > > I always felt that at least having the public option would have been the best way to cover people. The US has about 330m people, Canada has about 30m people. In all the discussion of single payer I never hear anyone explain how the US is going to maintain current levels of care when a country 11x smaller is struggling with a similar system. Also remember we have a significant doctor and nurse shortage in the US. > [@Paulo](#): > > The simple truth is that millions of deserving people cannot afford health care. And for them there is Medicare and other programs. But quality of care and access to care concerns are just as valid as the cost concerns. - - - Updated - - - > [@boardjnky4](#): > > Getting rid of ACA and replacing it with free market + expanded medicaid… correct me if I’m wrong? Nah, I haven’t proposed anything. I’m just playing devils advocate 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Paulo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/paulo/32/7328_2.png) [@Paulo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Paulo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/611 "2017-03-22T13:28:06Z")
The US has more people, more doctors, and more health care professionals. It would make more sense to compare physician to citizen ratio. US = 245 per 1000 citizens (2013 data) Canada = 228 per 1000 citizens (2015 data) I agree with all of your points. I’m not pretending to have the answers here, just pointing out what the goal is. People deserve care. We’re a first world country. ---
**Author:** ![bing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bing/32/7211_2.png) [@bing](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bing)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/612 "2017-03-22T15:23:36Z")
> [@Paulo](#): > > The US has more people, more doctors, and more health care professionals. It would make more sense to compare physician to citizen ratio. > US = 245 per 1000 citizens (2013 data) > Canada = 228 per 1000 citizens (2015 data) > > I agree with all of your points. I’m not pretending to have the answers here, just pointing out what the goal is. People deserve care. We’re a first world country. it would be interesting to see what all the other first world countries would do if they had to meet their NATO funding requirements. look at me sounding like an American all the time eh? ---
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/613 "2017-03-22T15:57:06Z")
> [@Onyx Z32](#): > > Nah, I haven’t proposed anything. I’m just playing devils advocate 🙂 I’m essentially doing the same, because I think that a lot of people just approach this issue with tunnel vision and refuse to really analyze the situation to its fullest. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/614 "2017-03-22T21:03:25Z")
What a 24 hours huh? Trump was under surveillance, immigrants rape girl in MD, London has a terror attack. There is still not a chance in Hell that Dems question their position on anything. ---
**Author:** ![snowracer101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@snowracer101](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/snowracer101)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/615 "2017-03-22T22:59:38Z")
> [@Blue Eyed Devil](#): > > What a 24 hours huh? Trump was under surveillance, immigrants rape girl in MD, London has a terror attack. There is still not a chance in Hell that Dems question their position on anything. “I’ll take: The Bill of Rights for $800, Alex” DING DING DING! TODAY’S DAILY DOUBLE!!! “I’ll wager everything, Alex” “This is violated when the government searches a United State Citizen’s property without a warrant.” “What is the 4th Amendment of the United States Constitution, Alex.” ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/616 "2017-03-23T04:38:37Z")
Since this is NYSpeed, can we talk about the little paragraph Chris Collins added to the republican healthcare bill? The part about states having to pay for Medicaid at the state level and not being allowed to pass Medicaid costs down to the counties? 49 other states are looking at that going, “WTF is this for? We set our Medicaid coverage and spending at the state level so of course we pay for it at the state level. Doing anything else would just be stupid” because NY is the only state in the country to pass Medicaid costs down to the county. Here in NY we spend more per capita on Medicaid than any other state in the country. How much more? You can take what Texas ($35 billion) and Florida ($21 billion) spend, combine them, and it’s still not as much as NY spends. That’s a combined total of 48 million people and they still can’t touch the $59 billion NY spends on 20 million people. Erie County’s share of this unfunded mandate consumes 98% of the property tax the county collects. Why does NY’s Medicaid cost so much more than every other state? Medicaid has levels of coverage that are federally mandated to provide a safety net for the poor, as well as tons of optional coverage. NY of course takes every single option it can get, creating a loaded Cadillac plan. When the average family of 4 is carrying a $5k a year tax burden simply to pay for what should be basic coverage for those in need while the plans they get through their jobs aren’t nearly as good you have a problem. When that Medicaid plan coverage is set at the state level but paid for at a county level and the county gets no say on what options it wants to cover you have a bigger problem. When that Medicaid cost literally breaks the budgets of every upstate county in the state you have a broken and unsustainable system. Then our asshole governor and his cronies get in front of the cameras claiming the republicans have declared war on NY, that we’ll be closing hospitals and putting old people out on the streets because of this. Nothing says NY has to make a single cut. They should make cuts to get their spending more in line with other states, but all this amendment to the bill does is say NY has to pay for the entire Cadillac plan at the state level. If this passes it’s HUGE for NY. I don’t think people realize how long upstate counties have been fighting for this to happen but getting nowhere because all the power in this corrupt state is downstate. EDIT: Source: > **[Total Medicaid Spending](https://www.kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/total-medicaid-spending/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D)** > > The Kaiser Family Foundation website provides in-depth information on key health policy issues including Medicaid, Medicare, health reform, global health, HIV/AIDS, health insurance, the uninsured … ---
**Author:** ![tpgsr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tpgsr/32/7374_2.png) [@tpgsr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/tpgsr)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:12am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/617 "2017-03-23T05:12:29Z")
@JayS I finally learned something out of all of this! Thank you for that knowledge on why my taxes are so insanely high. ---
**Author:** ![Wahoo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/wahoo/32/8265_2.png) [@Wahoo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Wahoo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/618 "2017-03-23T05:16:48Z")
Isn’t gas taxed to pay for some of Medicaid in Erie County? So gas might become cheaper? ---
**Author:** ![boardjnky4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@boardjnky4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boardjnky4)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:30am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/619 "2017-03-23T05:30:29Z")
great info @JayS ---
**Author:** ![OfficerK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4da419/32.png) [@OfficerK](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/OfficerK)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441/620 "2017-03-23T05:59:27Z")
> [@Wahoo](#): > > Isn’t gas taxed to pay for some of Medicaid in Erie County? So gas might become cheaper? HAHAHAHAH and employers would pass raises onto their employees if universal healthcare was enacted here! /PINKFONT? [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441.md?page=30) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/the-trump-presidency-discussion-thread-non-meme-version/274441.md?page=32)