# Those against a "bail-out" read here **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Automotive\ **Created:** [November 18, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387 "2008-11-18T19:48:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![cougarspeed](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cougarspeed/32/7468_2.png) [@cougarspeed](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cougarspeed)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/101 "2008-11-19T22:47:37Z")
> [@SideWinderGX](#): > > Please quote to me where he actually discussed the original topic. > > Oh wait, I’ll do it for you. > > That’s pretty much agreeing with what I said. > > Now I ask you cougar: why is he arguing with me, if we AGREE ON THE ORIGINAL TOPIC? He’s bringing bullshit into the thread that we discussed months ago, and I want him to admit he was wrong about skylines having absolutely no racing heritage, and drop the arguing with me about everything bullshit. It’s unnecessary. Meh im just pointing out the concept of getting someone to just be like “ok my bad” in any style of debate is just silly. So if you guys want to keep going on and on about whatever thats cool just make sure it is on topic with the bail out. :mamoru: This thread has some really good debate from both sides and I like it so I just dont want to see it all cluttered up. ---
**Author:** ![ImportMuscle](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/importmuscle/32/7615_2.png) [@ImportMuscle](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ImportMuscle)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/102 "2008-11-19T22:58:49Z")
> [@rdandy5875](#): > > UAW needs severe restructuring for sure. > > When I worked at automated machine technologies, I witnessed first hand what goes on the in the gm powertrain plant, and how little union workers are required to do on the line. Also the anomisity the engineers, who are not union btw, have toward the union workers. > > I’m sorry if it makes anyone feel bad, but you don’t deserve to get paid $50k a year + benefits to sit there and screw in 3 bolts all day long. And half the time they can’t do that correctly, or the required work is in some violation of union rules. > > . Thank you… I work a trade. Non union. Im payed very well because A: I produce quality work B: Im a hard worker C: Im highly skilled at what i do. If i get laid off tomorrow… I can guarantee ill have a job within 3 days Seems too me all the UAW does is ask for more and more and gives less and less. ---
**Author:** ![Geehee](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/geehee/32/7238_2.png) [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/103 "2008-11-20T04:22:52Z")
so I havent read the whole thread, but what about how they took care of tons of banks, but no other industry? ready…go! ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/104 "2008-11-20T06:07:50Z")
^The theory is that banks effect everything. I just heard an auto industry guy from detroit blame the banks for GM’s problems. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:13am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/105 "2008-11-20T06:13:50Z")
> [@evolve](#): > > so I havent read the whole thread, but what about how they took care of tons of banks, but no other industry? > > ready…go! Simple, the gave the banks **LOANS**. 5% interest to start then it goes up to 9%. The bank “bailout” will end up making the taxpayer money. GM wants loans too, but the general consensus is at the rate they’re burning through money a loan to them is money the taxpayers will never see again. If you look at how much money GM is burning through per quarter you’re realize giving them 25 billion would be like adding one more guy with a bucket to bail out the Titanic. Until you patch the giant fucking hole in the boat she’s going to sink no matter how much you bail. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/106 "2008-11-20T06:18:28Z")
One of the CEOs yesterday finally, after 8 minutes of BSing said they need $5 billion per month! ---
**Author:** ![cougarspeed](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cougarspeed/32/7468_2.png) [@cougarspeed](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cougarspeed)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/107 "2008-11-20T08:51:35Z")
> [@Blue Eyed Devil](#): > > One of the CEOs yesterday finally, after 8 minutes of BSing said they need $5 billion per month! HAHAH did you watch it? I was cracking up when they guy would not say anything specific they were getting sooo pissed. ---
**Author:** ![SideWinderGX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@SideWinderGX](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SideWinderGX)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/108 "2008-11-20T09:01:08Z")
> [@cougarspeed](#): > > Meh im just pointing out the concept of getting someone to just be like “ok my bad” in any style of debate is just silly. So if you guys want to keep going on and on about whatever thats cool just make sure it is on topic with the bail out. :mamoru: This thread has some really good debate from both sides and I like it so I just dont want to see it all cluttered up. You’ve got a point, I’ll admit that noone really admits they are wrong in an opinionated debate like this. (…no pun intended, that sounded weird) Unfortunately, he brought up some things which were not about the debate which I wanted him to concede to. I don’t know why he brought them up in the first place lol. My bad if I was confusing 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Supraman](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/supraman/32/7307_2.png) [@Supraman](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Supraman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 9:02am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/109 "2008-11-20T09:02:54Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > If you look at how much money GM is burning through per quarter you’re realize giving them 25 billion would be like adding one more guy with a bucket to bail out the Titanic. Until you patch the giant fucking hole in the boat she’s going to sink no matter how much you bail. DING DING DING… Correct me if I am wrong but right now they said they bailout money would only last them 6 months at the rate they are going at now? Oh and I love how the CEOs from chevy and chrysler took pay cuts and the one from ford said no, and the CEOs from chevy and chrysler had estimates of how much they needed and ford just came to see whatever “leftover” monies they could make away with. Fuck that, this has been a long time coming… I missed the airing and only caught the cliffs this morning but what a fucking joke. They need to chapter 11 that bitch, void all contracts and start from scratch… ---
**Author:** ![chaztor](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/chaztor/32/5302_2.png) [@chaztor](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/chaztor)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/110 "2008-11-20T09:54:23Z")
> [@Jam](#): > > its a shame, but i wouldnt ever buy an american car. ive owned 3, 2 fords and a chevy. both of my fords started on fire, one a wiring harness (headlight switch) and one the rear drum brake seized causing my rear tire to smolder. > > i have yet to own an import car that has started on fire. > > i dont like it when my cars start on fire. therefore, i buy import cars Were the domestics any older/higher mileage than the imports? did you maintain them any differently? I’ve noticed quite often people had old domestic rot boxes did not maintain them, acquired a dis-taste towards domestics. Bought new/er imports, maintained them better and acquired a “love” of imports. I’ve had several domestics and imports, generally the imports have fared better but the margin is not that wide. ---
**Author:** ![cougarspeed](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/cougarspeed/32/7468_2.png) [@cougarspeed](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/cougarspeed)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 10:04am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/111 "2008-11-20T10:04:14Z")
[http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bipartisan-group-works-to-apf-13633769.html](http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bipartisan-group-works-to-apf-13633769.html) And there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![traumadog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@traumadog](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/traumadog)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 10:20am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/112 "2008-11-20T10:20:40Z")
[http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed2/idUSTRE4AJ5ZN20081120](http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed2/idUSTRE4AJ5ZN20081120) And there you don’t. > Rep. Henry Waxman unseated fellow veteran Democratic lawmaker John Dingell on Thursday to become chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives’ powerful Energy and Commerce Committee. > > The 255-House Democratic conference voted 137 to 122 to accept the recommendation of its steering committee and agreed to replace Dingell, 82, a long-time friend of the U.S. auto industry, with Waxman, a 69-year-old Californian anxious to ease global warming, a top concern of U.S. President-elect Barack Obama. The original proposal to modify the $25 billion retooling loan for the automakers won’t fly in the face of Waxman’s opposition to altering the original intent - e.g. increasing fuel economy. ---
**Author:** ![traumadog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@traumadog](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/traumadog)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/113 "2008-11-20T10:27:36Z")
Oh, and for those opposed to the bailout - a Chapter 7 event for Detroit would only make the home mortage bust worse - no job = no mortgage payment = increased foreclosures, further driving down home values and burying home equity. Restructuring may alter this somewhat, but I’m sure in today’s environment, if any of the big 2+ went into Chapter 11, the only way it would get financing is if the government backed it (like FDIC, but for automaker loans). So the taxpayers are on the hook for something (bailout money, lost tax revenue, increased Medicare/Medicaid expenditures, unemployment insurance, and unpaid pension guarantees) - the question is what poison to pick. ---
**Author:** ![reliant\_turbo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/reliant_turbo/32/7189_2.png) [@reliant\_turbo](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/reliant_turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/114 "2008-11-20T10:50:25Z")
> [@traumadog](#): > > [http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed2/idUSTRE4AJ5ZN20081120](http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed2/idUSTRE4AJ5ZN20081120) > > And there you don’t. > > > Rep. Henry Waxman unseated fellow veteran Democratic lawmaker John Dingell on Thursday to become chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives’ powerful Energy and Commerce Committee. > > > The 255-House Democratic conference voted 137 to 122 to accept the recommendation of its steering committee and agreed to replace Dingell, 82, a long-time friend of the U.S. auto industry, with Waxman, a 69-year-old Californian anxious to ease global warming, a top concern of U.S. President-elect Barack Obama. > > The original proposal to modify the $25 billion retooling loan for the automakers won’t fly in the face of Waxman’s opposition to altering the original intent - e.g. increasing fuel economy. they had to toss that stupid global warming bs in there yet again. there are bigger things to worry about right now. appeasing a mythical god, mother earth, should be the last of our worries right now. sounds about as silly as ancient greece. Brian ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/115 "2008-11-20T11:00:49Z")
Bipartisan deal reached on aid for automakers [http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/bipartisan-deal-reached-aid-automakers/story.aspx?guid={FC638630-7CB7-4C21-9BA5-732071AD4DCB}&siteid=yhoof](http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/bipartisan-deal-reached-aid-automakers/story.aspx?guid=%7BFC638630%2D7CB7%2D4C21%2D9BA5%2D732071AD4DCB%7D&siteid=yhoof) ---
**Author:** ![Bacon](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bacon/32/7230_2.png) [@Bacon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Bacon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/116 "2008-11-20T12:49:37Z")
> [@chaztor](#): > > Were the domestics any older/higher mileage than the imports? did you maintain them any differently? > > I’ve noticed quite often people had old domestic rot boxes did not maintain them, acquired a dis-taste towards domestics. Bought new/er imports, maintained them better and acquired a “love” of imports. > > I’ve had several domestics and imports, generally the imports have fared better but the margin is not that wide. Jam + Maintain + His Accord = DIVIDE BY ZERO ---
**Author:** ![BigRon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@BigRon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigRon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/117 "2008-11-20T12:58:31Z")
‘Until they show us the plan, we cannot show them the money.’ — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi [http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/aid-big-three-falters-congress/story.aspx?guid={FC638630-7CB7-4C21-9BA5-732071AD4DCB}&siteid=yhoof](http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/aid-big-three-falters-congress/story.aspx?guid=%7BFC638630%2D7CB7%2D4C21%2D9BA5%2D732071AD4DCB%7D&siteid=yhoof) This seems like a Deal or No Deal episode. ---
**Author:** ![BigEd88](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/biged88/32/5064_2.png) [@BigEd88](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/BigEd88)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/118 "2008-11-20T16:02:51Z")
have you read the comments on that marketwatch link? Some are just clueless but all agree, the UAW is nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/119 "2008-11-20T18:14:22Z")
They delayed it 2 weeks because that’s all it takes for American ADD to kick in. Don’t “forget” we are the United States of Amnesia. They will get bailed out but most people will be too busy Christmas shopping to care. ---
**Author:** ![double\_j](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/double_j/32/7380_2.png) [@double\_j](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/double_j)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387/120 "2008-11-20T19:06:03Z")
> [@misteroman$$$](#): > > How abut Vettes and $700K+ houses:wave:. > My thoughts on the Big three buyout is They shouldn’t do it but I think they have too but with extreme restrictions.I think that at the Big 3 expense, they should have a group REALLY getting rid of all the rediculous spending.The private jets are a big one.Waggoner makes $16 mil a year + bonuses,stock options,etc.No person running a company losing that much money should get paid anything close to it. Agree! If they want a bailout, there should be a limit on salary for everyone, from the top down to no more than what the president of our country makes. How can you say via compensation that the head of chrysler is more important than the leader of the free world? Also, the union workers should take a pay cut to save their jobs. It’s not fair that some guy with a high school education who’s dad got him “in” is making a lot more money than say a guy like me, with a masters degree and loans to match. Also, I was playing around with shopping for a new small truck, I want a 4 cyl regular cab, 4x4 with a manual transmission. Lets look at the choices: Toyota: Has everything I am looking for GM: According to the website, I can get a Colorado/Canyon optioned this way, however, almost everything on the lot has the 5 cyl, which also means you must have the automatic. Also, it costs just about the same as the Toyota. Why would I buy a Chevy/GMC for the same price? As AWDrifter/blue eyed devil said, the big reason people buy domestic is because of price. Ford: If you want a 4x4, you must get at least the ancient 3.0 pushod V6. Also, the Ranger is hopelessly outdated. Dodge: The Dakota is another 6 cyl only thing. No regular cab option either. Mazda: Rebadged Ranger with less configurations Nissan: The Frontier has no regular cab or 4 cyl 4x4 choice. Isuzu: Rebadged GM with less configurations So, as you can see, the Domestic manufactures really don’t offer what I am looking for in a truck. I am willing to bet that a very large number of people are going through the same process and buying imports. BTW, if you want a 1/2 ton with a manual trans, your only choice is a Tundra with a 6 cyl. There is not a single domestic 1/2 ton that offers a manual transmission. Edit: Toyota dropped the manual this year in the Tundra ☹ [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/those-against-a-bail-out-read-here/58387.md?page=7)