# thoughts on bush and NSA spying? **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic\ **Created:** [December 17, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834 "2005-12-17T23:18:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Geehee](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/geehee/32/7238_2.png) [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/21 "2005-12-18T12:28:31Z")
> [@STEALTTH](#): > > I mean, yeah its gonna suck if it gets worse and im not really about letting them make their own rules, but whos going to stop them? word, we should all be sheep and just not fight it at all. i think thats the best plan. we cant do anything about it anyways so why try, right? ---
**Author:** ![jeeves744](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jeeves744/32/7619_2.png) [@jeeves744](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/jeeves744)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/22 "2005-12-18T13:56:43Z")
> First they came for the Jews > and I did not speak out > because I was not a Jew. > Then they came for the Communists > and I did not speak out > because I was not a Communist. > Then they came for the trade unionists > and I did not speak out > because I was not a trade unionist. > Then they came for me > and there was no one left > to speak out for me. like i said, might not affect you now, but it will. Slowly chipping away. ---
**Author:** ![STEALTTH](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/stealtth/32/7582_2.png) [@STEALTTH](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/STEALTTH)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/23 "2005-12-18T14:20:54Z")
> [@evolve](#): > > word, we should all be sheep and just not fight it at all. i think thats the best plan. we cant do anything about it anyways so why try, right? what do you propose? I’m interested in seeing how you can change the history of government. ---
**Author:** ![Locutus](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/locutus/32/7574_2.png) [@Locutus](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Locutus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/24 "2005-12-18T15:07:16Z")
i fully support it. seriously… think about it. now ask yourself if you do. if you dont your retarted. ---
**Author:** ![Locutus](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/locutus/32/7574_2.png) [@Locutus](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Locutus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/25 "2005-12-18T15:11:09Z")
also, do you HONESTLY THINK that the goverment did not intend this to get out. unless there is a deep throat in the NSA, HIGHLY unlikey, it was planned to leak… ---
**Author:** ![LZ1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LZ1](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LZ1)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/26 "2005-12-18T15:21:43Z")
the NSA is leet ---
**Author:** ![Jack](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jack/32/7613_2.png) [@Jack](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/27 "2005-12-18T15:31:49Z")
all you wannabe :snky: people need a reality check bad. You are very small fish in a very large pond. If you really have something to worry about, chances are your an asshole and your doing something wrong. You think I care if the gov’t has my records? What do you mean? Teh records they already have? They know more about me than I do… you think they need my permission to get it? You think I want them to need your permission to search your house? Fuck that. You know how long it takes to get a warrant for some shit? A long ass time… and most of the time evidence has to already be present for the warrant to be issued… how the hell can you get evidence… if you can’t look for it? As far as I’m concerned… you shouldn’t be concerned. They aren’t looking for you, or people like you. They could give 2 shits about the 3k you have in the bank, or the 10k you owe to the bank on your POS car… they aren’t looking for you. Some of you guys think this is going to turn into some crazy thing where you can’t pick a wedge without proper clearance… like I said, they don’t care about you, your mother, or your grandma, unless they are building bombs, or trafficing drugs… I support it 100%, the more support it gets, the more controlled the rest of the gov’t can make it… ---
**Author:** ![JEG](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jeg/32/7246_2.png) [@JEG](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JEG)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/28 "2005-12-18T16:06:48Z")
What is boils down to is the Government is becoming WAY too powerfull. Of the poeple for the people has almost no meaning anymore, and hasnt for a long tim. ---
**Author:** ![Freek](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/freek/32/7357_2.png) [@Freek](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Freek)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/29 "2005-12-18T16:11:06Z")
if you know what your listening for you can tell with a tapped call … i know i’ve been i’ve done it when friends in iraq have called … plus they tap more when you use certain words on the phone a lot ---
**Author:** ![Geehee](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/geehee/32/7238_2.png) [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/30 "2005-12-18T16:11:21Z")
its not that i have anything to worry about, and i know im a small fish in a big pond. what my point was where does it stop. how many freedoms do we need to give away? ---
**Author:** ![Jack](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jack/32/7613_2.png) [@Jack](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/31 "2005-12-18T16:17:58Z")
Is it your freedom to organize a massive bombing downtown with your buddies? Thats where the gov has to step in. Your freedom to privacy stops when you start talking about acts against the gov’t … their key words to pick up on are not anal sex, or spank me and call me susan… it is “I’m going to blow up the school, or I’m going to shoot the [insert president here].” Your privacy is still safe, cause the gov doesn’t care about law obeiding people. ---
**Author:** ![JEG](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jeg/32/7246_2.png) [@JEG](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JEG)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/32 "2005-12-18T17:49:33Z")
^ :word: I got nothing to hide, let em listen, maby they will get a laugh outof it. ---
**Author:** ![nitroinsane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d26b3c/32.png) [@nitroinsane](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/nitroinsane)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/33 "2005-12-18T18:10:36Z")
iam not going to express my political opinnion on here as it turns into a debate. but how come he needs to have his address to the nation right b4 family guy ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Stevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dr.Stevil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Dr.Stevil)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/34 "2005-12-19T07:11:02Z")
> [@Jack](#): > > Is it your freedom to organize a massive bombing downtown with your buddies? > Thats where the gov has to step in. > > Your freedom to privacy stops when you start talking about acts against the gov’t … their key words to pick up on are not anal sex, or spank me and call me susan… it is “I’m going to blow up the school, or I’m going to shoot the [insert president here].” Your privacy is still safe, cause the gov doesn’t care about law obeiding people. agree with you 100%… if your not doing anything wrong, you shouldnt have to worry. And like someone else mentioned… I highly doubt this is anything new ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/35 "2005-12-19T07:45:30Z")
Blah, blah, blah. Echelon is watching you 24/7/365. Nobody likes the gov’t watching them that is why they created Echelon. Once again, is there more good or bad in technology? Now you know what Ted Kazinski was all about. ---
**Author:** ![Bacon](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bacon/32/7230_2.png) [@Bacon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Bacon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 10:11am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/36 "2005-12-19T10:11:59Z")
1984? ---
**Author:** ![Fetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fetter](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fetter)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/37 "2005-12-19T10:29:58Z")
> [@Jack](#): > > Is it your freedom to organize a massive bombing downtown with your buddies? > Thats where the gov has to step in. > > Your freedom to privacy stops when you start talking about acts against the gov’t … their key words to pick up on are not anal sex, or spank me and call me susan… it is “I’m going to blow up the school, or I’m going to shoot the [insert president here].” Your privacy is still safe, cause the gov doesn’t care about law obeiding people. :word: Perfect post for this thread :tup: > [@nitroinsane](#): > > iam not going to express my political opinnion on here as it turns into a debate. but how come he needs to have his address to the nation right b4 family guy Tell me about it… I almost threw a fit. At least they started it from the beginning when he was done talking about whatever he was talking about. (Didn’t listen;)) ---
**Author:** ![JoesTypeS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joestypes/32/7190_2.png) [@JoesTypeS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JoesTypeS)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/38 "2005-12-20T13:36:13Z")
Ok here’s the problem with what happened. The president broke federal law by authorizing the NSA to tap AMERICANS INSIDE THE UNITED STATES without warrants. FISA court grants warrants WITHIN **MINUTES** and if minutes is too long, you can even get a warrant from the court AFTER THE FACT. This was not done. This is why it’s illegal. FISA has approved 99%+ of all attempts to get a warrant from the court. Very little information is needed to obtain these warrents. > 1. Does FISA authorize surveillance without a court order? > > Yes. In general, the Justice Department may engage in electronic surveillance to collect FII without a court order for periods up to one year. 50 U.S.C. § 1802. **There must be no “substantial likelihood” that the intercepted communications include those to which a U.S. person is a party**. § 1802(a)(1)(B). That’s the whole argument. There’s no grey area about the “substantial likelihood” since bush openly admits that those being spied on were American citizens This isn’t about “if you’re not hiding anything you shouldn’t care” it’s about the law. The letter and the spirit is clear in this case. Also, on a side note. I think whoever leaked the information that this was going on should be put on trial and face 10 yrs. Let a jury decide. Republican or Democrat you can’t really argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![catalyst](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/catalyst/32/7279_2.png) [@catalyst](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/catalyst)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/39 "2005-12-20T14:29:14Z")
> [@JoesTypeS](#): > > Also, on a side note. I think whoever leaked the information that this was going on should be put on trial and face 10 yrs. Let a jury decide. Why? “Apparently some people don’t understand the difference between a leak that is solely intended to hurt someone as an act of political retribution — i.e., Valerie Plame — and a leak that is intended to blow the whistle on a violation of the law. Let me try to put this simply: the first is a dangerous abuse of power. The second is an attempt to prevent a dangerous abuse of power.” ---
**Author:** ![JoesTypeS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/joestypes/32/7190_2.png) [@JoesTypeS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JoesTypeS)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834/40 "2005-12-20T15:10:03Z")
> [@catalyst](#): > > Why? > > “Apparently some people don’t understand the difference between a leak that is solely intended to hurt someone as an act of political retribution — i.e., Valerie Plame — and a leak that is intended to blow the whistle on a violation of the law. Let me try to put this simply: the first is a dangerous abuse of power. The second is an attempt to prevent a dangerous abuse of power.” If the federal gov’t wants to protect the person under wistle blower protection, that’s fine. But there should be at least an internal investigation. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/thoughts-on-bush-and-nsa-spying/5834.md?page=3)