# Tin foil hat on..... homeland security ammo order... **URL:** \ **Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic\ **Created:** [May 9, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890 "2012-05-09T22:55:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Willybeen](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/willybeen/32/7351_2.png) [@Willybeen](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Willybeen)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/1 "2012-05-09T22:55:18Z")
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EirC88RbnJ4&feature=player\_embedded#](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EirC88RbnJ4&feature=player_embedded#)! Ruh roh… why so many? thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Minglor](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/minglor/32/7373_2.png) [@Minglor](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Minglor)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/2 "2012-05-10T00:01:18Z")
[http://www.dhs.gov/xabout/history/editorial\_0133.shtm](http://www.dhs.gov/xabout/history/editorial_0133.shtm) Lots of agencies. Lots of guns. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/3 "2012-05-10T04:59:52Z")
They have actually ordered over 750,000,000 hollow point rounds in just a few years. I was going to post this a month ago but I figured people on here are happier with their head in the sand. ---------- Post added at 07:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 AM ---------- Just ignore the Patriot Act, the NDAA, NDRP, the fact that Republicans democrats and Obama just passed a bill to take away your free speech(HR347)! GO BACK TO SLEEP, THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE HERE. Obama is here to help you. 750,000,000 means they get two shots at every American. And you deserve a head shot if you think there is nothing to be concerned about. ---
**Author:** ![Motocrossx23](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/motocrossx23/32/5120_2.png) [@Motocrossx23](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Motocrossx23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/4 "2012-05-10T05:20:22Z")
Lol. ---
**Author:** ![tpgsr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tpgsr/32/7374_2.png) [@tpgsr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/tpgsr)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/5 "2012-05-10T05:27:57Z")
> [@Blue Eyed Devil](#): > > 750,000,000 means they get two shots at every American. And you deserve a head shot if you think there is nothing to be concerned about. So that means a total of 6 shots at my family… I like my odds on this one. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/6 "2012-05-10T05:46:04Z")
I love how people make bonded hollow points out like the smoking gun that it’s some government conspiracy. First, hollow points are used for one reason. They expand on impact causing all off their energy to be displaced into the target. Know why it’s great that all the bullet’s energy is going into your target? Well, not only does it stop the target better, BUT IT MEANS THE STUFF BEHIND THE GUY YOU SHOT IS MUCH SAFER. The FBI recently switched to PDX1 bonded after putting out a very detailed request for a new carry round. They specify a minimum of 12" of penetration and a maximum of 18" on bare gelatin. Why a max of 18"? Because you don’t want the bullet coming out the other side of your target to still be a highly lethal projectile. By the time a bonded hollow point goes through 4 layers of cloth (front and back) plus the chest of an average sized criminal it will have slowed considerably. Do with same thing with a full metal jacket round and the bullet will be travelling far faster and be far more dangerous after it’s gone through a person. > Listed in the FBI Technical Evaluation Plan (TEP) are > eight penetration tests for “Service” ammunition: (1) > bare gelatin (10 percent; 1 lb. gelatin/9 lbs. water) at > 10 ft.; (2) heavy clothing and gelatin at 10 ft.; (3) steel > (two sheets of hot-rolled 20-ga. automotive sheet metal > with galvanized finish spaced 3" apart); (4) wallboard > at 10 ft. (two pieces 1/ 2" gypsum board spaced 31/2" > apart); (5) plywood at 10 ft. (one piece of 3/ 4" AA fir > plywood); (6) auto glass at 10 ft. (A.S.1, 1/ 4" laminated > safety glass is angled at 45 degrees to the horizontal to > simulate a windshield’s angle, and the shot is fired with > a 15-degree offset); (7) repeat of test 2 at 20 yds.; and > (8) auto glass at 20 yds. (repeat of test 6, except fired > straight on at 20 yds.). Tests 3 through 6 and 8 have a > gelatin block covered with light clothing 18" behind the > barrier. The gelatin is stored at 39° F, and the calibrated > block is shot within 20 minutes of removal from cooling. > Each event requires five shots, and a new block and test > materials are used after each test to maintain integrity. > According to the TEP, “It is desirable that the service > projectile consistently penetrate an average of 12" to > 18" throughout gelatine tests, with no shot less than 12" > and no shot greater than 18", expand to at least twice its > original diameter, and retain all of its weight.” > **[/](https://agegateway.nrahq.org/?s=CA&r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.americanrifleman.org%2FWebcontent%2Fpdf%2F2009-8%2F200981911031-oneproblemtwosolutions.pdf)** ---
**Author:** ![TradersBASE](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tradersbase/32/5321_2.png) [@TradersBASE](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TradersBASE)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/7 "2012-05-10T05:50:29Z")
My concern isn’t that these are hollow point…the quantity is pretty substantial though. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/8 "2012-05-10T05:56:56Z")
I love how people cherry pick one little fact and use that to make excuses for an out of control government. Good little citizens. ---
**Author:** ![TrueBlue](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/trueblue/32/7245_2.png) [@TrueBlue](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TrueBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/9 "2012-05-10T05:57:06Z")
> “It is desirable that the service projectile consistently penetrate an average of 12" to 18" throughout gelatine tests, with no shot less than 12" and no shot greater than 18", expand to at least twice its original diameter, and retain all of its weight.” Near complete energy expenditure. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blue_eyed_devil/32/7292_2.png) [@Blue\_Eyed\_Devil](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blue_Eyed_Devil)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/10 "2012-05-10T05:58:07Z")
And destruction. ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/11 "2012-05-10T06:18:32Z")
Yeah it’s a lot of ammo but it’s a lot of departments too. Most LEO’s go their entire career without firing a full mag in the field but they go through a ton at the range. And unlike you or I who cut costs by firing the cheapest shit we can find at the range while carrying with the expensive stuff they generally practice with what they carry (which is the best practice). I’ve target shot a couple boxes of PDX1 just so I know how it responds should I ever have to use it in a defensive situation but I can’t afford to shoot 1000’s of rounds of it like I do my crap FMJ. ---
**Author:** ![Shockwave179](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/shockwave179/32/7496_2.png) [@Shockwave179](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Shockwave179)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/12 "2012-05-10T06:18:47Z")
I guess you guys would also freak out if I told you that the US Gov’t. bought Federals entire production of .223 for 2012 or that the South Korean Gov’t. bought PMC’s entire production line of .223 for 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Willybeen](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/willybeen/32/7351_2.png) [@Willybeen](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Willybeen)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/13 "2012-05-10T12:35:53Z")
> [@Blue Eyed Devil](#): > > SNIPS I like this guy. lol ---
**Author:** ![JayS](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jays/32/15375_2.png) [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/14 "2012-05-10T12:57:15Z")
Let’s look at the numbers a little closer and see if we can pry the tinfoil hat off old Bluey for a couple minutes. 1. It’s 450 million rounds **over 5 years** So that’s 90 million per year. DHS employs 135,000 weapons-carrying officers. That’s 667 bullets per year for each weapon carrying officer. It’s a lot if you use the scare tactic of the chain email’s “one bullet per citizen”, but when you stop to think about hitting the range once a month for practice it’s just 56 rounds per month. By comparison as a non-LEO but strong believer in the 2nd Amendment and personal protection I hit the range about once a month and go through a minimum of 100 rounds per trip. Suddenly 450 million, or 56 bullets a month per officer doesn’t seem at all like marshal law is about to be declared. > **[Chain email says Homeland Security purchasing many bullets perhaps in...](http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/apr/30/chain-email/chain-email-says-homeland-security-purchasing-many/)** > > Stock up on soup. Account for children and pets. Lock the doors, dim the lights. A chain email forwarded to us by a reader March 24, 2012, suggests the U.S. Department of Homeland Security has mysteriously ordered a lot of bullets. Specifically, the... Sure, not all off them will hit the range once a month. Of course, of the ones that do I’d be willing to be they use way more than 56 rounds. I know if I could shoot for free any time I wanted and it would be considered not only part of my job but something that could likely save my life at some point I’d be ripping through 1000 rounds a month. ---
**Author:** ![Mike.Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mike.Mike](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mike.Mike)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/15 "2012-05-10T13:02:02Z")
Hope they are putting more than 56 rounds down range a month… lol People are so scared over ammo and such. Just arm yourself and feel more at ease. ---
**Author:** ![ultradriver10000](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ultradriver10000/32/7397_2.png) [@ultradriver10000](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ultradriver10000)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/16 "2012-05-10T14:09:28Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > snip… I know many boarder patrol officers and they shoot 400-500 rounds every time they go to the range, which is 1-2 times per month. I think they make up for the beg scanner TSA guys in the airports. The hollow points as already explained are to contain the bullets from excess travel. You target shoot what you carry…bullets shoot differently. ---
**Author:** ![Spam16v](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/spam16v/32/5287_2.png) [@Spam16v](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Spam16v)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/17 "2012-05-10T14:23:38Z")
I always carried Gold Dot ammo for personal use when I had my permit in CT, same rounds used by some federal agents. I read an article that the name of the ammo used in a self defense shooting was used against him b/c they were some gory named hollow point gut destroying entrail buster or something, even was told not to use Hydroshocks b/c of the name. Less things they can use against you the better when it comes down to it. ---
**Author:** ![Jon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@Jon](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jon)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/18 "2012-05-10T14:32:56Z")
So what should we do? :lol: ---
**Author:** ![Freek](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/freek/32/7357_2.png) [@Freek](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Freek)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/19 "2012-05-10T14:54:02Z")
> [@JayS](#): > > Let’s look at the numbers a little closer and see if we can pry the tinfoil hat off old Bluey for a couple minutes. > > 1. It’s 450 million rounds **over 5 years** > > So that’s 90 million per year. DHS employs 135,000 weapons-carrying officers. That’s 667 bullets per year for each weapon carrying officer. It’s a lot if you use the scare tactic of the chain email’s “one bullet per citizen”, but when you stop to think about hitting the range once a month for practice it’s just 56 rounds per month. > > By comparison as a non-LEO but strong believer in the 2nd Amendment and personal protection I hit the range about once a month and go through a minimum of 100 rounds per trip. Suddenly 450 million, or 56 bullets a month per officer doesn’t seem at all like marshal law is about to be declared. > > [http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/apr/30/chain-email/chain-email-says-homeland-security-purchasing-many/](http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2012/apr/30/chain-email/chain-email-says-homeland-security-purchasing-many/) > > Sure, not all off them will hit the range once a month. Of course, of the ones that do I’d be willing to be they use way more than 56 rounds. I know if I could shoot for free any time I wanted and it would be considered not only part of my job but something that could likely save my life at some point I’d be ripping through 1000 rounds a month. This… I shoot at least 200 rounds a month in various calibers. I, as an individual, buy thousands of rounds of ammo a year. If you multiplied that to even one small government agency you can do the numbers. Putting on my tin foil hat… I’d like to see a three letter agency try. They better call in for CAS because that’s what it would take. ---
**Author:** ![ultradriver10000](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ultradriver10000/32/7397_2.png) [@ultradriver10000](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ultradriver10000)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890/20 "2012-05-10T15:39:47Z")
> [@Freek](#): > > Putting on my tin foil hat… I’d like to see a three letter agency try. They better call in for CAS because that’s what it would take. Yup, unless you have air support and tanks I really don’t think ANY thing will be happening. Even then people will find a way. [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/tin-foil-hat-on-homeland-security-ammo-order/222890.md?page=2)