# Ugh pharmaceutical sales

**URL:** <https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123>\
**Category:** NYSpeed Off Topic\
**Created:** [August 18, 2006, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123 "2006-08-18T11:34:43Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 6:50am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/41 "2006-08-19T06:50:19Z")

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🙂 That’s the best post of this entire thread.

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**Author:** ![King](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/king/32/7329_2.png) [@King](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/King)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 8:22am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/42 "2006-08-19T08:22:57Z")

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yea dumb thread…my bro does pharm sales…a good example…youve READ about cars (maybe in journals…) but there are different brands! u dono if u want a nissan or a honda or a toyota…so a sales person pushes their brand so that you throw youre money towards it…duh?

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**Author:** ![Geehee](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/geehee/32/7238_2.png) [@Geehee](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Geehee)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/43 "2006-08-19T08:24:37Z")

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> [@ghettostyleTA](#):
>
> motherfuckers
> 
> they obviously forgot about dre

you are responsible for coffe all over my desk, dick

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**Author:** ![Xrunner](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/xrunner/32/7390_2.png) [@Xrunner](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Xrunner)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/44 "2006-08-19T13:14:58Z")

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Alot of pharmaceutical reps also attend hospital staff meeting to educate nurses in the field… there are just so many new drugs on the market it is impossible to keep up to date on them

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**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/45 "2006-08-19T14:10:40Z")

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> [@K Cuv](#):
>
> yea dumb thread…my bro does pharm sales…a good example…youve READ about cars (maybe in journals…) but there are different brands! u dono if u want a nissan or a honda or a toyota…so a sales person pushes their brand so that you throw youre money towards it…duh?

Roffle. It’s a little more complicated than that. 😉 However, as far as you and your brother are concerned, I guess it shouldn’t be any more complicated…

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**Author:** ![ly555is](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3bc359/32.png) [@ly555is](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ly555is)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/46 "2006-08-19T14:24:37Z")

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> [@K Cuv](#):
>
> yea dumb thread…my bro does pharm sales…a good example…youve READ about cars (maybe in journals…) but there are different brands! u dono if u want a nissan or a honda or a toyota…so a sales person pushes their brand so that you throw youre money towards it…duh?

wow it’s like nothing happened that affected you at all in the past 1.5pgs, so you just skipped past it and compare drugs and cars and go on your merry way, shoving overweight children down for chicken fingers while you’re at it. if you can’t keep up a convo at the adult table, come out to the porch and have a beer with me since i don’t get it all either

but i do respect that it’s a bit more complicated than you make it out to be, and deals with ethical concern over extremely questionable experimental procedure, if you could even call it that. shady shit.

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**Author:** ![King](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/king/32/7329_2.png) [@King](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/King)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/47 "2006-08-19T16:28:38Z")

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> [@ghettostyleTA](#):
>
> but i do respect that it’s a bit more complicated than you make it out to be, and deals with ethical concern over extremely questionable experimental procedure, if you could even call it that. shady shit.

not really? there are a ton of drugs that are similar with slightly differen side effects and so on…all this person was trying to do is push their brand to the doctor…whats ethical about it? its her job? hes saying there shouldnt be sales reps, instead doctors can read up on drugs themselves?

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**Author:** ![King](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/king/32/7329_2.png) [@King](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/King)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/48 "2006-08-19T16:34:05Z")

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> [@zwarbyt](#):
>
> that whore makes 80k + a year

probably not…if shes pushing drugs…shes not…if she was specializing in a very expensive product maybe…shes MAYBE making 50 grand + bonuses that do not equal anywhere near 30 extra grand a year. whore. unethical selfish bitch…

everyone worry about your own jobs.

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**Author:** ![King](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/king/32/7329_2.png) [@King](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/King)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/49 "2006-08-19T16:45:08Z")

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> [@RedGoober4Life](#):
>
> don’t accept what anybody says as the gospel. Not much qualifies a drug rep to do what they do, either. Think about how much the typical car salesperson knows about cars. Yech…

this thread is rediculous.

they dont know anything…but, they spend a month in training and go to school everyday 8 hours a day for this month learning everything there is about the drug and all its competition…then when they start working for a month…they go BACK to learn more for another 2 weeks to make sure theyre clear on everything and to question everything else so…40hours x 6weeks is 240…240 hours of learning the drugs/competitiors? probably know nothing and deserve no money or anything more than ignorance towards their jobs/lives on a car forum from someone that obviously never researched it more than an observation at a doctors office once :bloated:

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**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/50 "2006-08-19T16:48:49Z")

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Do you mean “unethical?”

I don’t think you understand how a rep’s actions can affect the prescribing behavior of physicians.

> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10940134?dopt=Abstract>
>
> Pharmaceutical companies often use drug samples as a marketing strategy in the ambulatory care setting. Little is known about how the availability of drug samples affects physicians' prescribing practices. Our goal was to assess: (1) under what circumstances and why physicians dispense drug samples, (2) if drug samples lead physicians to use medications other than their preferred drug choice, and (3) the physician characteristics that are associated with drug sample use.Cross-sectional survey.University-based clinics at one academic medical center.154 general medicine and family physicians.Physicians' self-reported prescribing patterns for 3 clinical scenarios, including their preferred drug choice, whether they would use a drug sample and subsequently prescribe the sampled medication, and the importance of factors involved in the decision to dispense a drug sample. A total of 131 (85%) of 154 physicians responded. When presented with an insured woman with an uncomplicated lower urinary tract infection, 22 (17%) respondents reported that they would dispense a drug sample; 21 (95%) of 22 sample users stated that they would dispense a drug sample that differed from their preferred drug choice. For an uninsured man with hypertension, 35 (27%) respondents reported that they would dispense a drug sample; 32 (91%) of 35 sample users indicated that they would dispense a drug sample instead of their preferred drug choice. For an uninsured woman with depression, 108 (82%) respondents reported that they would dispense a drug sample; 53 (49%) of 108 sample users indicated that they would dispense a drug sample that differed from their preferred drug choice. Avoiding cost to the patient was the most consistent motivator for dispensing a drug sample for all 3 scenarios. For 2 scenarios, residents were more likely to report using drug samples than attendings (P \<.05). When respondents who chose a drug sample for 2 or 3 scenarios were compared to those who never chose to use a drug sample, or chose a drug sample for only one scenario, only younger age was independently associated with drug sample use.In self-reports, the availability of drug samples led physicians to dispense and subsequently prescribe drugs that differ from their preferred drug choice. Physicians most often report using drug samples to avoid cost to the patient.

but are you going to trust your physician to make the call?

> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7715044?dopt=Citation>
>
> To provide quantitative data about the accuracy of the information about drugs presented to physicians by pharmaceutical sales representatives.One hundred six statements about drugs made during 13 presentations by pharmaceutical representatives were analyzed for accuracy. Statements were rated inaccurate if they contradicted the 1993 Physicians' Desk Reference or material quoted or handed out by the sales representative.University teaching hospital.Twelve (11%) of 106 statements about drugs were inaccurate. All 12 inaccurate statements were favorable toward the promoted drug, whereas 39 (49%) of 79 accurate statements were favorable (P = .005). None of 15 statements about competitors' drugs were favorable, but all were accurate, significantly P \< .001) differing from statements about promoted drugs. In a survey of 27 physicians who attended these presentations, seven (26%) recalled any false statement made by a pharmaceutical representative, and 10 (37%) said information from the representatives influenced the way they prescribed drugs.Eleven percent of the statements made by pharmaceutical representatives about drugs contradicted information readily available to them. Physicians generally failed to recognize the inaccurate statements.

or the FDA?

> <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8602706?dopt=Abstract>
>
> To compare the quality, relevance, and structure of drug studies published in symposium proceedings that are sponsored by drug companies with 1) articles from symposia with other sponsors and 2) articles in the peer-reviewed parent journals of symposium proceedings; and to study the relation between drug company sponsorship and study outcome.Cross-sectional studies of clinical drug studies published in symposium proceedings or their parent medical journals.The proportion of articles with no methods sections (which are necessary to assess quality); methodologic quality and clinical relevance scores; and the proportion of articles with outcomes favoring the drug of interest.Symposia sponsored by single drug companies had more articles without methods sections (10%; 108 of 1064) than did symposia that had other sponsors (3%; 58 of 2314) or symposia that had no mentioned sponsor (2%; 29 of 1663) (P \< 0.001). The mean methodologic quality and relevance scores of articles were similar both by type of sponsorship and between articles published in symposia sponsored by single drug companies and articles from the parent journals. Significantly more articles with drug company support (98%; 39 of 40) than without drug company support (79%; 89 of 112) had outcomes favoring the drug of interest (P = 0.01).Articles in symposia sponsored by single drug companies were similar in quality and clinical relevance to articles with other sponsors and to articles published in the parent journals. Articles with drug company support are more likely than articles without drug company support to have outcomes favoring the drug of interest.

Is lying unethical when it is not in the best interest of the patient, but rather the company?

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**Author:** ![King](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/king/32/7329_2.png) [@King](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/King)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/51 "2006-08-19T16:58:49Z")

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> [@RedGoober4Life](#):
>
> Do you mean “unethical?”

no…quote ghettostyleta

> [@RedGoober4Life](#):
>
> but are you going to trust your physician to make the call?

if u dont trust your physician, you shouldnt be going to them

> [@RedGoober4Life](#):
>
> or the FDA?

yes

im not hating you corey, or arguing you personally, just your view on this 🙂  
its good to question this sort of thing, but…iiii think more people assume things in this field…such as pay and people being selfish money making bastards.

these are normally signs of jealousy due to not aspiring to make money at a good job. but whatever…no one is forcing doctors to buy a drug…theyre pushing their product because its their job…all a saleperson goes in for is a signature from the doctor stating they did a good job and did what they were supposed to…its up to your doctor…blame your doctor for whatever happens to you if you were prescribed wrongly…and if u dont trust them like i said, find a new doctor.

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**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/52 "2006-08-19T17:00:00Z")

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> [@K Cuv](#):
>
> this thread is rediculous.
> 
> they dont know anything…but, they spend a month in training and go to school everyday 8 hours a day for this month learning everything there is about the drug and all its competition…then when they start working for a month…they go BACK to learn more for another 2 weeks to make sure theyre clear on everything and to question everything else so…40hours x 6weeks is 240…240 hours of learning the drugs/competitiors? probably know nothing and deserve no money or anything more than ignorance towards their jobs/lives on a car forum from someone that obviously never researched it more than an observation at a doctors office once :bloated:

Whereas, a doctor goes to school for 7 to 8 years.

Then 2-10 for residency depending.

Or a pharmacist who goes for 6-8 years.

Or a nurse who goes anywhere from 2-7 years.

Or a physicians assistant for 4-6 years.

Or a somebody going to graduate school in a related subject…well we won’t go there. That’s a lifetime. That’s why they are called experts. That’s my goal…

So tell me, why is the individual that has gone to school for only a month teaching the people that are learning for a lifetime? I suppose they’re only focusing on one drug. However, do these people have the background to fully understand the biochemical and pharmacological aspects of the drugs they are selling? Are they even getting a fair and balanced education on the drugs?

Why, K Cuv, you know what they call your tactic? Attacking the messenger. If it makes you feel better–by all means go for it.

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**Author:** ![King](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/king/32/7329_2.png) [@King](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/King)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/53 "2006-08-19T17:04:22Z")

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> [@RedGoober4Life](#):
>
> Why, K Cuv, you know what they call your tactic? Attacking the messenger. If it makes you feel better–by all means go for it.

the company who makes the drug knows all of the info on this…the reps get taught to tell doctors and say what they’ve been told…so really YOURE attacking the messenger 😛

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**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/54 "2006-08-19T17:06:35Z")

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Oh god…

I’ve already pointed you in the direction of information that shows that sometimes the studies performed by the pharmaceutical companies are not scientific.

That’s the major problem. 🙂

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**Author:** ![ly555is](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3bc359/32.png) [@ly555is](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ly555is)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/55 "2006-08-19T17:10:51Z")

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> [@K Cuv](#):
>
> not really? there are a ton of drugs that are similar with slightly differen side effects and so on…all this person was trying to do is push their brand to the doctor…whats ethical about it? its her job? hes saying there shouldnt be sales reps, instead doctors can read up on drugs themselves?

i think he’s saying two things:

1. more training for sales reps. perhaps even a master’s level degree devoted to this field.

2. better standards for the experiments that lead up to conclusions on the drugs’ actual effectiveness. this doesn’t have anything to do with the sales rep, but i think it’s a point he’s making, and i understand.

calm down a bit, i think you’re taking a lot of this thread personally b/c your bro’s a sales rep.

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**Author:** ![King](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/king/32/7329_2.png) [@King](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/King)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/56 "2006-08-19T17:14:06Z")

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not personal…its not my job…im just seeing people say thigns that are…wrong… whatever …im at my job and im going to worry about my job

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**Author:** ![ly555is](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3bc359/32.png) [@ly555is](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ly555is)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/57 "2006-08-19T17:14:31Z")

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> [@K Cuv](#):
>
> these are normally signs of jealousy due to not aspiring to make money at a good job.

i just caught this. is that pointed at one of us, or where’d it come from?

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**Author:** ![King](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/king/32/7329_2.png) [@King](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/King)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/58 "2006-08-19T17:25:33Z")

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no one in particular…normally when people bitch about how much someone else makes…this is what happens :gotme:

and the argument about how long doctors go to school for vs. sales reps? who cares? they SHOULD. the sales reps arent deciding what drugs you take are, the doctors are. for the tenth time they are just saying “hey this is what my product does” therefore the doctors can use their years of schooling to good use and decide what they want their patients to use. i guess i just dont get your point.

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**Author:** ![RedGoober4Life](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/redgoober4life/32/7610_2.png) [@RedGoober4Life](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RedGoober4Life)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/59 "2006-08-19T17:32:34Z")

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I don’t really care about how much they make. This world is full of overpaid and underpaid people, but that’s life…

actor-observer bias. bha.

I linked 3 studies a few posts back. You can see evidence showing that reps do affect the prescribing behavior of physicians whether it be intentional or otherwise. Obviously it does, because they wouldn’t be doing it if it didn’t. Bottom line: this is not in the best interest of the patient.

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**Author:** ![traumadog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@traumadog](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/traumadog)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/ugh-pharmaceutical-sales/16123/60 "2006-08-19T18:22:06Z")

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> [@RedGoober4Life](#):
>
> I don’t really care about how much they make. This world is full of overpaid and underpaid people, but that’s life…
> 
> actor-observer bias. bha.
> 
> I linked 3 studies a few posts back. You can see evidence showing that reps do affect the prescribing behavior of physicians whether it be intentional or otherwise. Obviously it does, because they wouldn’t be doing it if it didn’t. Bottom line: this is not in the best interest of the patient.

Neither is direct-advertising to patients (“ask your doctor if it’s right for you”), but it’s done, isn’t it?

So unless you ban all of these, then effectively nothing will change - and if we do, then we’ll have to figure some other way to incentivize companies to develop new drugs. In the end, it’s still all about the dollar, and if a company doesn’t have a real marketable product (and most of the easy ones are already off patent), it will never make enough money.

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