# Upside-down flag in protest of Obama, upsets neighbors **URL:** \ **Category:** PittSpeed Off Topic\ **Created:** [November 8, 2008, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573 "2008-11-08T11:59:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![imported\_Sleeper](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/imported_sleeper/32/5939_2.png) [@imported\_Sleeper](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/imported_Sleeper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/41 "2008-11-10T10:40:55Z")
> [@Racetronix 79# HI Inj!!](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/racetronix-79-hi-inj/38645/3): > > Why? Why do you care what someone else thinks? How does it impact your life in any way whatsoever? I realize you’re all old and \*\*\*\* and probably really got the USA IS THE BEST OMG FREEDOM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN THESE COLORS DONT RUN DOWN WITH THE COMMIES blah blah blah indoctrination. I don’t get that though. I’m not proud to be an American. It’s the country that I happened to be born in. :dunno: That flag stands for the men and woman who fought and still fight today to keep faggots like you safe in the U.S, it’s right winged liberals like you who i cannot stand nor will, you are nothing but an Uncle Tom when it comes to politics and a disgrace. DIAF you disrepsectful \*\*\*\*… Go live in third world countries for awhile and see how long it takes for your pussy ass to come crying back to the U.S ---
**Author:** ![ShalerPunk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/shalerpunk/32/5976_2.png) [@ShalerPunk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ShalerPunk)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/42 "2008-11-10T10:52:00Z")
> [@SOLD](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sold/38567/28): > > it’s right winged liberals like you “Right winged liberals?” And don’t generalize. I’m probably one of the most liberal people on the forum, and one of the harshest critics of the outgoing administration, and I still respect the flag and what it represents. I’m sure there are plenty of elderly Europeans who were happy as hell to see that flag show up in WW2. The thing is that we have to avoid blind nationalism. My family came here from Austria because they were avoiding a people who had become patriotic to the point of irrationality. ---
**Author:** ![brokeasskorean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@brokeasskorean](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/brokeasskorean)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:56am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/43 "2008-11-10T10:56:58Z")
> [@what movie makes you guys cry](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-movie-makes-you-guys-cry/38649/31): > > It’s just how I was raised. My family has a lot of people in the military and I guess it stems from that. > > I am sorry you don’t like the USA. It may be pretty \*\*\*\*ty here at some times, but it’s a whole lot better than living anywhere else. amen brotha… ---
**Author:** ![Darkstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@Darkstar](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Darkstar)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/44 "2008-11-10T12:03:33Z")
> [@what movie makes you guys cry](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-movie-makes-you-guys-cry/38649/31): > > It’s just how I was raised. My family has a lot of people in the military and I guess it stems from that. > > I am sorry you don’t like the USA. It may be pretty \*\*\*\*ty here at some times, but it’s a whole lot better than living anywhere else. Ahh, there’s the leap you’re making. I love it here. There’s good people, it’s a land of opportunity, lots of different cultures, complexity, etc. But I don’t love it BECAUSE it’s “AMERICA”. We’re just a bunch of people that all happen to have been born on the same continent, and we made up some imaginary lines to say “this is ours” and that’s that. America is a label, just like Nike or Reebok. I love this country because of it’s quality, not it’s brand name, if that makes any sense… > [@SOLD](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/sold/38567/28): > > That flag stands for the men and woman who fought and still fight today to keep faggots like you safe in the U.S, it’s right winged liberals like you who i cannot stand nor will, you are nothing but an Uncle Tom when it comes to politics and a disgrace. DIAF you disrepsectful \*\*\*\*… Go live in third world countries for awhile and see how long it takes for your pussy ass to come crying back to the U.S 🤣 That flag stands for a lot more than just that. This country has done great things and it has done horrific things. And what the \*\*\*\* is a Right wing liberal? I’m a realist. The founding fathers of this country did not want a strong central government. we are the UNITED STATES. Autonomous states, supposed to be loosely bound by a federal government that provided for only the most basic of things… national defense, currency printing, foreign policy, etc. I mean the National Guard was originally supposed to be state militias that kept arms just in case the federal government got too powerful. Now look at us. So if I’m an “unamerican piece of \*\*\*\*”, then so are George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. Go dig them up and bitch to them. Maybe they’ll come back to life and teach you something about the country you claim to be so \*\*\*\*ing head over heels in love with. > [@I'm seriously about to click the buy it now...](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/im-seriously-about-to-click-the-buy-it-now/38652/38): > > “Right winged liberals?” > > And don’t generalize. I’m probably one of the most liberal people on the forum, and one of the harshest critics of the outgoing administration, and I still respect the flag and what it represents. > > I’m sure there are plenty of elderly Europeans who were happy as hell to see that flag show up in WW2. > > The thing is that we have to avoid blind nationalism. My family came here from Austria because they were avoiding a people who had become patriotic to the point of irrationality. yeah, it was the flag that they were happy to see, not the American’s coming to save their ass. And yes, blind nationalism is exactly what is so disturbing in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![fah\_quad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ac91a4/32.png) [@fah\_quad](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fah_quad)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/45 "2008-11-10T13:00:59Z")
> [@Another reason why dogs rule](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/another-reason-why-dogs-rule/38635/38): > > And yes, blind nationalism is exactly what is so disturbing in this thread. Agreed. Especially when there is the inevitable “It’s a whole lot better than anywhere else” thrown out there. What base in fact can this statement be made? I know some Canadians who have everything I have and more. Lot’s of European countries have it well, too. It’s all relative. But many would say this about wherever they were born without really taking a step back and seeing the big picture. There are plenty of great nations in this world who share in the same freedoms we do. But we’ve got the Grand Canyon. So we’re betterer. ---
**Author:** ![Swarzkopf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Swarzkopf](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Swarzkopf)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/46 "2008-11-10T13:38:31Z")
Yet another stupid \*\*\*\*ing post. > It’s a whole lot better than anywhere else" thrown out there. > What base in fact can this statement be made? I know some Canadians who have everything I have and more. Canadians don’t even have the freedom to defend their loved ones from criminals with a handgun. They’re government doesn’t trust them with firearms to protect their families and homes. I love this country because my family immigrated here to escape extreme poverty in Italy 90 years ago. They were welcomed here with open arms (mainly) and given a chance to make decent lives- far better than they could’ve had in the old country. I love this country because I come from very meager beginnings and have made a very nice living for myself at 27 years old. I love this country because of the freedoms we’re afforded (which, unfortunately, so many of you seem eager to throw away). I love this country because my father and grandfathers were willing to fight and even lay down their lives if they had too to protect the things I enjoy today. I love this country because I have traveled- I’ve been to several European countries, and America does shine in comparison (unless you like entire cities to be shut down several times a year when the mass unions randomly strike, like having \*\*\*\*ed up teeth because nationalized health care won’t fix your snaggletooth, like having filthy streets, ect). If you morons are that unproud to be Americans, relinquish your citizenship and move somewhere \*\*\*\*ing else. > The founding fathers of this country did not want a strong central government. You’re clearly under/mis-informed. Ever heard of the Federalists? John Adams administration? The Alien and Sedition Acts? The Founding Fathers were not unified in their ideas- two primary factions emerged, one led by Alexander Hamilton and personified by the Washington and Adams administrations and one led by Thomas Jefferson. Both factions have left their impact equally on our political system. Hamilton’s faction DID in fact push for a strong, powerful, centralized government, and DID incorporate much of this into our political system. Jefferson’s faction was opposed to a strong, powerful, centralized government, but didn’t dismantle the structure that Washington/Adams/Hamilton created when he took office in 1800. ---
**Author:** ![Darkstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@Darkstar](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Darkstar)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/47 "2008-11-10T13:50:13Z")
> [@HOW TO: convert new civic SI to MUGEN](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/how-to-convert-new-civic-si-to-mugen/38609/31): > > Yet another stupid \*\*\*\*ing post. > > Canadians don’t even have the freedom to defend their loved ones from criminals with a handgun. They’re government doesn’t trust them with firearms to protect their families and homes. > > I love this country because my family immigrated here to escape extreme poverty in Italy 90 years ago. They were welcomed here with open arms (mainly) and given a chance to make decent lives- far better than they could’ve had in the old country. > > I love this country because I come from very meager beginnings and have made a very nice living for myself at 27 years old. > > I love this country because of the freedoms we’re afforded (which, unfortunately, so many of you seem eager to throw away). > > I love this country because my father and grandfathers were willing to fight and even lay down their lives if they had too to protect the things I enjoy today. > > I love this country because I have traveled- I’ve been to several European countries, and America does shine in comparison (unless you like entire cities to be shut down several times a year when the mass unions randomly strike, like having \*\*\*\*ed up teeth because nationalized health care won’t fix your snaggletooth, like having filthy streets, ect). > > If you morons are that unproud to be Americans, relinquish your citizenship and move somewhere \*\*\*\*ing else. > > You’re clearly under/mis-informed. Ever heard of the Federalists? John Adams administration? The Alien and Sedition Acts? > > The Founding Fathers were not unified in their ideas- two primary factions emerged, one led by Alexander Hamilton and personified by the Washington and Adams administrations and one led by Thomas Jefferson. Both factions have left their impact equally on our political system. Hamilton’s faction DID in fact push for a strong, powerful, centralized government, and DID incorporate much of this into our political system. Jefferson’s faction was opposed to a strong, powerful, centralized government, but didn’t dismantle the structure that Washington/Adams/Hamilton created when he took office in 1800. Cool story, Hansel. I did not know any of that. But the fact remains that the MAJORITY of the founding fathers did not want a strong central government, since thats kinda sorta in a round about way exactly what they were trying to escape by fighting the revolutionary war. ---
**Author:** ![fah\_quad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ac91a4/32.png) [@fah\_quad](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/fah_quad)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/48 "2008-11-10T14:18:39Z")
> [@HOW TO: convert new civic SI to MUGEN](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/how-to-convert-new-civic-si-to-mugen/38609/31): > > Yet another stupid \*\*\*\*ing post. Funny, I say the same thing to myself about your posts on this topic. But in public, I’d just agree to disagree. Until you say my ish is stupid. Then I’ll pull out the “your’s is stupider” return on the forum. > [@HOW TO: convert new civic SI to MUGEN](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/how-to-convert-new-civic-si-to-mugen/38609/31): > > Canadians don’t even have the freedom to defend their loved ones from criminals with a handgun. Difference of opinion. I don’t call that a “freedom”. And you’re generalizing to spin it your way. > [@HOW TO: convert new civic SI to MUGEN](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/how-to-convert-new-civic-si-to-mugen/38609/31): > > I love this country because my family immigrated here to escape extreme poverty in Italy 90 years ago. **They were welcomed here with open arms** (mainly) and given a chance to make decent lives- far better than they could’ve had in the old country. Which we, as a country, now try and prevent when anyone south of the border tries to do the same thing. > [@HOW TO: convert new civic SI to MUGEN](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/how-to-convert-new-civic-si-to-mugen/38609/31): > > I love this country because I come from very meager beginnings and have made a very nice living for myself at 27 years old. I appreciate that, but also believe that anyone can succeed anywhere. > [@HOW TO: convert new civic SI to MUGEN](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/how-to-convert-new-civic-si-to-mugen/38609/31): > > I love this country because of the freedoms we’re afforded (which, unfortunately, so many of you seem eager to throw away). Again, difference of opinion on what exactly a “freedom” is. I truly believe with all my heart, and this will piss off every gun-totin’ muthfuggah on here, that the 2nd ammendment was never intended to be interpreted the way it is, because they never could have foreseen what we would become. But courts rule otherwise, so I’ll live with it. BTW- I own many guns. > [@HOW TO: convert new civic SI to MUGEN](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/how-to-convert-new-civic-si-to-mugen/38609/31): > > I love this country because my father and grandfathers were willing to fight and even lay down their lives if they had too to protect the things I enjoy today. Appreciate this, also. I went to my Uncle’s full military honors funeral at Arlington last week. My other uncle was a Navy pilot and put his plane in to the ground on a training mission. My last Uncle is a retired tank battalion commander. And my father, God rest his soul, never was right after Vietnam. > [@HOW TO: convert new civic SI to MUGEN](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/how-to-convert-new-civic-si-to-mugen/38609/31): > > I love this country because I have traveled- I’ve been to several European countries, and America does shine in comparison (unless you like entire cities to be shut down several times a year when the mass unions randomly strike, like having \*\*\*\*ed up teeth because nationalized health care won’t fix your snaggletooth, like having filthy streets, ect). A generalization. One that is shared with many elitist Americans (not saying you are one) who will find anything wrong that they can to make themselves believe we have it the best. There are health programs in Europe that run quite well and offer everything we have available. I am in the medical industry and work very closely with foreign governments to allow my company’s FDA approved product to be marketed in their countries. > [@HOW TO: convert new civic SI to MUGEN](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/how-to-convert-new-civic-si-to-mugen/38609/31): > > If you morons are that unproud to be Americans, relinquish your citizenship and move somewhere \*\*\*\*ing else. What do you consider “unproud”? Someone who doesn’t think the same as you? I’d fight and die for my country, but I’m not so foolish as to believe it’s better than any other, or insist that anything our forefathers came up with should be applied to today’s society. ---
**Author:** ![tom\_vito](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tom_vito/32/6000_2.png) [@tom\_vito](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/tom_vito)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/49 "2008-11-10T15:29:33Z")
> [@HOW TO: convert new civic SI to MUGEN](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/how-to-convert-new-civic-si-to-mugen/38609/31): > > Canadians don’t even have the freedom to defend their loved ones from criminals with a handgun. They’re government doesn’t trust them with firearms to protect their families and homes. And yet it is ok for that to happen here? ---
**Author:** ![Swarzkopf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Swarzkopf](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Swarzkopf)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/50 "2008-11-11T04:18:26Z")
> Cool story, Hansel. I did not know any of that. But the fact remains that the MAJORITY of the founding fathers did not want a strong central government, since thats kinda sorta in a round about way exactly what they were trying to escape by fighting the revolutionary war. Wrong - they were more or less evenly split. Our first two Presidents were strong advocates for a powerful, centralized government. During Adam’s second administration, we even came pretty close to tyranny (political dissenters were thrown in jail- see the Alien and Sedition Acts I mentioned above). I think you’re identifying with the Democratic-Republican founding fathers (Jefferson’s faction)…they were a smart group of guys for sure. > And yet it is ok for that to happen here? Huh? Where did I say that? ---
**Author:** ![sinim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@sinim](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/sinim)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/51 "2008-11-11T05:59:24Z")
The biggest problem in this country (which happens to be a big problem with someone in here) is that too many people listen to propaganda rather than actually look at history and unbiased fact. You want to know something for certain, you have to read between the lines. In this situation, the media, by focusing on this stuck up bitch who was offended by this guy’s flag, is making the guy out to be some sort of villain. It is not our place to judge him and it is certainly not the place of the media or this bitch and her little snot nosed brat kid. For those that worry about flag etiquette…he didn’t desecrate the flag, he just hung it upside down. Then they make a comment about how offensive it is because veterans day is coming…but seriously. How many of us even would have realized that today is veterans day if it weren’t for retail stores advertising their veterans day sales. I hear people say all the time that if you want to complain about this country, then you can get out. I’ve even said this myself. But the truth is, these people have every right to live here and whine and complain to their heart’s content. Just as this guy has every right to protest Obama’s election. As long as no one’s getting hurt, we shouldn’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Swarzkopf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Swarzkopf](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Swarzkopf)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:20am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/52 "2008-11-11T06:20:47Z")
Yeah, don’t care about anything as long as it isn’t physically harming you right at the present time. Apathy is great! :ugh: ---
**Author:** ![Darkstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@Darkstar](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Darkstar)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/53 "2008-11-11T12:35:27Z")
> [@Buffalo Biodiesel or veggie oil co-op?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/buffalo-biodiesel-or-veggie-oil-co-op/38653/9): > > Yeah, don’t care about anything as long as it isn’t physically harming you right at the present time. Apathy is great! :ugh: minding your business and not being a whiney \*\*\*\* about someone elses political statement isn’t really apathy. Its called not being a whiney \*\*\*\*. But, of course, the hilarity of all of this is that the guy wanted to get attention, and sure enough you idiots are all giving it to him by being all offended. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![tom\_vito](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/tom_vito/32/6000_2.png) [@tom\_vito](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/tom_vito)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/54 "2008-11-11T12:41:43Z")
> [@corvette ppl are stooopid too](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/corvette-ppl-are-stooopid-too/38664/2): > > Huh? Where did I say that? you left me with the impression that the USA was better than Canada, becuase here you have the right to defend your family with a hangun, or any gun for that matter. And my point as, there are plenty of places, right here in the god ol’ USA, that you can not do any more defending that you can in Canada. We, the gun owners of the USA, thought the Heller VS. D.C. was going to solve it all. The biggest courth in the land was finally going to decide our right to bear arms. When in realilty, as I read and see it, we are no better off than before. Maybe, a few people in DC are slightly better off. But I’m really seeing it. If I was wrong in your points, forget all of my ramblings. ---
**Author:** ![xfrankx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/2bfe46/32.png) [@xfrankx](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/xfrankx)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/55 "2008-11-11T15:06:33Z")
> [@Girl Scout Cookies](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/girl-scout-cookies/38612/53): > > Americans get outraged over the stupidest things. exactly these old people had nothing better to do than make a big deal about something because wheel of fortune wasnt on yet. what i dont get is when people say \*\*\*\* like this offends them. for instance. would you be more or less offended if someone in line at the grocery store tapped you on the shoulder and said excuse me your child is extremely ugly and i feel ill by looking at it. even if your child is a mongoloid you would still take offense to this comment. now someone being completely impersonal flying a flag upside down in your neighborhood shouldnt make you so angry you call the police. its an excuse if people called the cops for everything that “offended” them in a day 911 would be flooded with calls like “this man in a jeep infront of me is offending me with his rainbow bumper sticker.” or “this girl at the mall had a bad word on her t shirt.” people need to get used to not liking everything other people do. just becasue you do not like what they do doesnt mean you have any room to bitch because im sure someone feels the same way about something you do. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Swarzkopf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Swarzkopf](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Swarzkopf)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/56 "2008-11-11T15:38:34Z")
> minding your business and not being a whiney \*\*\*\* about someone elses political statement isn’t really apathy. Its called not being a whiney \*\*\*\*. But, of course, the hilarity of all of this is that the guy wanted to get attention, and sure enough you idiots are all giving it to him by being all offended. Right, because having a discussion about something makes you a “whiney \*\*\*\*”. :nuts: Political statements are meant to be discussed? > you left me with the impression that the USA was better than Canada, becuase here you have the right to defend your family with a hangun, or any gun for that matter. > > And my point as, there are plenty of places, right here in the god ol’ USA, that you can not do any more defending that you can in Canada. > > We, the gun owners of the USA, thought the Heller VS. D.C. was going to solve it all. The biggest courth in the land was finally going to decide our right to bear arms. When in realilty, as I read and see it, we are no better off than before. Maybe, a few people in DC are slightly better off. But I’m really seeing it. > > If I was wrong in your points, forget all of my ramblings. If you really think that our freedom to defend ourselves/own firearms is as curtailed in the US as it is in Canada, you’re either delusional or misinformed. No, it’s not perfect, but it’s better than any other western nation. ---
**Author:** ![ShalerPunk](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/shalerpunk/32/5976_2.png) [@ShalerPunk](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ShalerPunk)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/57 "2008-11-11T15:46:23Z")
> [@Attn: NY Speed Roller Hockey Team!](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/attn-ny-speed-roller-hockey-team/38683/7): > > If you really think that our freedom to defend ourselves/own firearms is as curtailed in the US as it is in Canada, you’re either delusional or misinformed. No, it’s not perfect, but it’s better than any other western nation. in all fairness: > In Windsor, the Canadian town that borders Detroit, there were only 4 firearm homicides in 1997. In Detroit, for that same year, there were 354 firearm homicides. If the population of Detroit and Windsor were equal, the number of firearm deaths would be nearly eighteen times higher in Detroit, a city less than 1,000 yards away. > According to statistics, Canada in 1997 had 193 homicides by firearms. The United States had 12,380. It is hard to change a culture, but clearly the easy access to firearms has to be addressed before we can expect any significant drop in our homicide rate. ---
**Author:** ![Swarzkopf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Swarzkopf](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Swarzkopf)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/58 "2008-11-11T15:57:01Z")
One isolated example doesn’t unravel the argument for gun ownership. Comparing nations with similar socioeconomic patterns, but different levels of gun ownership, is more accurate. I think comparing the US to the UK is a good example- similar urban social patterns, similar population density, ect. _Removed- figures were incorrect_ How about a BBC article for you liberals? > **[BBC NEWS | UK | Why Britain needs more guns](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2656875.stm)** > > As gun crime leaps by 35% in a year, plans are afoot for a further crack down on firearms. Yet what we need is more guns, not fewer. > Government assured Britons they needed no weapons, society would protect them. If that were so in 1920 when the first firearms restrictions were passed, or in 1953 when Britons were forbidden to carry any article for their protection, it no longer is. > > The failure of this general disarmament to stem, or even slow, armed and violent crime could not be more blatant > > … > > It is true that in contrast to Britain’s tight gun restrictions, half of American households have firearms, and 33 states now permit law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons. > > But despite, or because, of this, violent crime in America has been plummeting for 10 consecutive years, even as British violence has been rising. By 1995 English rates of violent crime were already far higher than America’s for every major violent crime except murder and rape. > > … > > You are now six times more likely to be mugged in London than New York. Why? Because as common law appreciated, not only does an armed individual have the ability to protect himself or herself but criminals are less likely to attack them. They help keep the peace. A study found American burglars fear armed home-owners more than the police. As a result burglaries are much rarer and only 13% occur when people are at home, in contrast to 53% in England. Violent crime in the UK, particulary related to stabbings, has continued to rise dramatically since they’re implementation of near total gun control. Besides, your Windsor-Detroit comparison (which I’m trusting you on, I didn’t look it up) is a relatively poor example since the close proximity of the USA should allow for a large influx of illegal, criminally owned firearms anyway. Guns must be readily available to criminals in Windsor- so if guns are truly the cause of crime/violence/murder, the homicide rate should be much higher in Windsor. The lack of violence seems to indicate that other factors are to blame. ---
**Author:** ![Shaggy](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/shaggy/32/5945_2.png) [@Shaggy](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Shaggy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/59 "2008-11-11T21:33:21Z")
the uk has man to man violence. the USA is just pussys just drive by shoot. been that way for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Blackbelt](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/blackbelt/32/5998_2.png) [@Blackbelt](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Blackbelt)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573/60 "2008-11-12T03:15:21Z")
> [@Buffalo Biodiesel or veggie oil co-op?](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/buffalo-biodiesel-or-veggie-oil-co-op/38653/9): > > Yeah, don’t care about anything as long as it isn’t physically harming you right at the present time. Apathy is great! :ugh: No, it’s called tolerance.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/upside-down-flag-in-protest-of-obama-upsets-neighbors/200573.md?page=4)