# VAGCOM, Data logging, Tuning, 10% Ethanol Fuel Questions. **URL:** \ **Category:** Shift518 Automotive\ **Created:** [April 29, 2008, 6:32am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667 "2008-04-29T06:32:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![votblindub](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/votblindub/32/6280_2.png) [@votblindub](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/votblindub)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:32am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/1 "2008-04-29T06:32:50Z")
Okay, so yesterday after work I’m on my way home and my gas gets low. I go to one station, BAM! 10% ethanol. I go to another, again! 10% ethanol, :wow after a few more I’m scrambling to find regular gas. I dont have a tune for ethanol! :sad I called up APR and asked what to do. I had about 20 miles left worth of gas, so I cant just keep driving around waiting for days. They inform me that they dont have that yet( Alabama). I suggested that it might be okay if i switch back to the OEM program on my ECU and just get 93 in there. They said it should be okay. They also told me that I should do some data logging in my 93 program to see how it runs. Now heres are my questions. Who has a laptop or a PDA(VAGCOM) so that I can drive around with it for half an hour(or more if youre willing to let me borrow it for a day or two) to record some data and get that analyzed? I plan to send that data to APR and another company from Germany that I keep in touch with. Heres what they told me about my situation “The problem for older cars is not to damage the engine while running. The problems are with the seals in the fuel system. But all Audis since 1995 will resist E10. I cannot imagine where your problem should be. Fore my understanding only a lower ROZ would affect a tuned engine. Isn’t it so?” I figure I’ll keep using the 93 octane like I have been since I got the car. Also, I need to keep talking to APR and do all I can to get em to start developing the 10% Ethanol 93 octane tune program. I want that powerloss I feel to go away. I call it powerloss because I’m so used it being chipped that it is now my baseline. I forgot what stock felt like ;D I dont know about my gas mileage as of yet. I just got like 24 miles out of that tank. I’ll post how it’s running once i go thru a few tanks and get a baseline for that fuel. So, what are the rest of you doing with the tuned cars, those of you who run pump gas and high psi? Does it make any difference to you guys? Does your car feel or run any different? Has anyone done any research on this? Is this at all similar to alky spray? Any other suggestions, guys? I think that for now I have my bases covered and wont detonate my engine into orbit, but I just have this feeling that I’m sorta forgettin somethin here. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn96VR-4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Shawn96VR-4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Shawn96VR-4)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 6:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/2 "2008-04-29T06:52:55Z")
We only have 10% ethanol down here and even in Albany where I used it, I have never felt a difference at all. Good thread by the way. ---
**Author:** ![bennyfizzle](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bennyfizzle/32/6291_2.png) [@bennyfizzle](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bennyfizzle)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 7:03am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/3 "2008-04-29T07:03:12Z")
Um. It’s seriously fine, not a big deal :rofl Put it back in the happy mode and fill er up. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn96VR-4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Shawn96VR-4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Shawn96VR-4)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/4 "2008-04-29T07:07:00Z")
A serious note: If you have to ask this question, you need to be able to datalog/understand/change your tune to accomodate for these things. No car is ever “tuned”. You need to understand this shit if you alter the stock tune and especially if you go EMS. ---
**Author:** ![SSmokinn\_SS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@SSmokinn\_SS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/SSmokinn_SS)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 7:16am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/5 "2008-04-29T07:16:02Z")
its not gonna make a difference…even tho they do say that Ethanol is bad on rubber components in the fuel system…but it wont cause any engine damage. ---
**Author:** ![Vovchandr](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/vovchandr/32/6275_2.png) [@Vovchandr](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Vovchandr)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 7:37am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/6 "2008-04-29T07:37:01Z")
Most gas stations run 10% whether they tell you or not. It’s also used as a cleaning agent for the lines. You’ll be fine on 10%. Thats like E10 :lol Edit: ![http://kkaefer.com/files/tastatur-k.jpg](http://kkaefer.com/files/tastatur-k.jpg) Enter button… Use it! :tong ---
**Author:** ![Shawn96VR-4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Shawn96VR-4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Shawn96VR-4)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/7 "2008-04-29T07:38:27Z")
Let’s be clear. His particular situation should be fine but E85 in general is not like gasoline. E85 is fucking bullshit anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![Mk4\_30R\_Ban](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mk4_30r_ban/32/6347_2.png) [@Mk4\_30R\_Ban](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mk4_30R_Ban)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/8 "2008-04-29T07:45:35Z")
i have Very agressive software in my car as far as timing for a VW is concerned, i run sunoco 93 thats about it, amd is the best runs 93 on his APR stage 3 software. 10% ethanol is the way gas is being made now, its fine to use, youwont find anything else. edit: motronic ME7.x is also very adaptable and also very sensitive if it notices a slight change in egt or iat it adjusts timing accordingly, you have nothing to worry about especially since you are just an apr 93 chip and an exhaust. ---
**Author:** ![votblindub](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/votblindub/32/6280_2.png) [@votblindub](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/votblindub)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 7:52am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/9 "2008-04-29T07:52:59Z")
> [@Mk4 30R](#): > > i have Very agressive software in my car as far as timing for a VW is concerned, i run sunoco 93 thats about it, amd is the best runs 93 on his APR stage 3 software. 10% ethanol is the way gas is being made now, its fine to use, youwont find anything else. > > edit: motronic ME7.x is also very adaptable and also very sensitive if it notices a slight change in egt or iat it adjusts timing accordingly, you have nothing to worry about especially since you are just an apr 93 chip and an exhaust. whew. good to know. i kinda cant afford to rebuild an engine like that if i damage it, ya know? I’d still like to put it in 93 mode, datalog about 30 min of driving and send it out to APR. They were interested in seeing the data. Anyone got a VAGCOM? ---
**Author:** ![Mk4\_30R\_Ban](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/mk4_30r_ban/32/6347_2.png) [@Mk4\_30R\_Ban](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Mk4_30R_Ban)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 7:54am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/10 "2008-04-29T07:54:33Z")
my laptop is d-e-a-d. better luck on CA-VA for that ---
**Author:** ![psi2high](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/psi2high/32/6320_2.png) [@psi2high](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/psi2high)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/11 "2008-04-29T11:51:25Z")
nick(amd is the best) has the software and cable so ask him ---
**Author:** ![LKSi](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/lksi/32/6316_2.png) [@LKSi](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/LKSi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/12 "2008-04-29T12:03:55Z")
The only station I know of with no ethanol is Vallero, and they are always cheaper. :ponder ---
**Author:** ![2003gtiTURBO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/7c8e57/32.png) [@2003gtiTURBO](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/2003gtiTURBO)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/13 "2008-04-29T13:08:12Z")
I noticed this a couple weeks ago as well. I have APR 93 software and haven’t had any issues. Last time I turned off the chip was last fall…just to make sure the stock program was there…5 minutes later it was back to chipped :drink ---
**Author:** ![KrazyKid](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/krazykid/32/6371_2.png) [@KrazyKid](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/KrazyKid)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/14 "2008-04-29T13:57:49Z")
If you want to log data for the hell of it… check ca-va, i pmed you. I am running my APR93 for a baseline tune on my K04-022 turbo. I have the tune setup really nice now, and still have a bit more I can throw at it… but my clutch is toast so I need to fix that first befor I can beat on it anymore. As for the shit gas difference, there is a slight difference… you wont tell by the seat of your pants but like they already mentioned, the ecu will adapt it out and keep your car happy. Your mileage on the other hand, well I am sure you already notice it went to shit with this 10% E-Gas. Completly stock, I got 28 MPG mixed city/highway and beating on it consistantly. APR 93, 2.5" TB, CAI, FMIC I got around 26-27. Now running on that 10% gas, I didnt see anything over 24mpg… no matter how I drove for that week. New turbo, 3" turbo back, 380cc injectors, I still got 24 MPG! Since then I added a MBC (Now I can keep it from spooling at part throttle when the ECU used to build boost 99% of the time.) I got 26MPG on my last tank of 10% E-gas! ---
**Author:** ![votblindub](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/votblindub/32/6280_2.png) [@votblindub](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/votblindub)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/15 "2008-04-29T17:44:38Z")
> [@kkkustom](#): > > If you want to log data for the hell of it… check ca-va, i pmed you. > > I am running my APR93 for a baseline tune on my K04-022 turbo. I have the tune setup really nice now, and still have a bit more I can throw at it… but my clutch is toast so I need to fix that first befor I can beat on it anymore. As for the shit gas difference, there is a slight difference… you wont tell by the seat of your pants but like they already mentioned, the ecu will adapt it out and keep your car happy. Your mileage on the other hand, well I am sure you already notice it went to shit with this 10% E-Gas. Completly stock, I got 28 MPG mixed city/highway and beating on it consistantly. APR 93, 2.5" TB, CAI, FMIC I got around 26-27. Now running on that 10% gas, I didnt see anything over 24mpg… no matter how I drove for that week. > > New turbo, 3" turbo back, 380cc injectors, I still got 24 MPG! Since then I added a MBC (Now I can keep it from spooling at part throttle when the ECU used to build boost 99% of the time.) I got 26MPG on my last tank of 10% E-gas! which car? ---
**Author:** ![Jammer](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/jammer/32/6349_2.png) [@Jammer](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Jammer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/16 "2008-04-29T22:13:34Z")
Jayman on AUG is a Gas Buyer for the local region. There is alot to be learned…FYI, Sunoco gas isn’t Sunoco at the moment… the ethonol thing has things all screwed up at the moment. He could go into great detail… ---
**Author:** ![jays05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@jays05](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/jays05)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 4:08am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/17 "2008-04-30T04:08:04Z")
AFAIK all our gas has been E10 since last year sometime. And they don’t have to tell you. It can be up to 10% ethanol and is still considered gasoline. ---
**Author:** ![bennyfizzle](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/bennyfizzle/32/6291_2.png) [@bennyfizzle](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/bennyfizzle)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/18 "2008-04-30T04:19:16Z")
Sooo they’re charging us WAYYY more, for less gasoline? and less mileage per gallon of gasoline… cool. ---
**Author:** ![votblindub](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/votblindub/32/6280_2.png) [@votblindub](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/votblindub)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:55am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/19 "2008-04-30T05:55:00Z")
> [@elzzifynneb](#): > > Sooo they’re charging us WAYYY more, for less gasoline? and less mileage per gallon of gasoline… > > cool. exactly :angry2 ---
**Author:** ![Shawn96VR-4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Shawn96VR-4](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Shawn96VR-4)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2008, 5:55am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667/20 "2008-04-30T05:55:26Z")
> [@elzzifynneb](#): > > Sooo they’re charging us WAYYY more, for less gasoline? and less mileage per gallon of gasoline… > > cool. The gasoline is just the outside of the box. Ethanol is fucking us in many more ways. [Next page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/vagcom-data-logging-tuning-10-ethanol-fuel-questions/236667.md?page=2)