# Water Powered Cars... why not?
**URL:** https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290
**Category:** NYSpeed Automotive
**Created:** [June 19, 2008, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290 "2008-06-19T11:23:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@boxxa](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boxxa)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/1 "2008-06-19T11:23:30Z")
[http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1769/68](http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1769/68)
[http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/951/85/](http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/951/85/)
There has been a series of articles on this recent news break over the past few days about how getting energy from water is impossible and cars that run on water can not exist.
Can someone with a science background explain this a little more? They said you cant get more energy out than you put into it… but how does a gasoline engine move a car?
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### Author:  [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 11:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/2 "2008-06-19T11:27:02Z")
Put simply, gasoline contains potential energy. By burning it you convert potential to kinetic energy.
Water doesn’t burn.
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### Author:  [@JDMSIR](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JDMSIR)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 11:27am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/3 "2008-06-19T11:27:35Z")
I thought you were talking about this
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### Author:  [@camarojoe](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/camarojoe)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 11:28am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/4 "2008-06-19T11:28:18Z")
They had a steam powered car
> **[Steam car](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_car)**
>
> A steam car is a car (automobile) powered by a steam engine.\[a\] A steam engine is an external combustion engine (ECE) where the fuel is combusted away from the engine, as opposed to an internal combustion engine (ICE) where the fuel is combusted within the engine. ECEs have a lower thermal efficiency, but it is easier to regulate carbon monoxide production. The first experimental steam powered vehicles were built in the late 18th and 19th centuries, but it was not until after Richard Trevithick h...
Stanley Steamer
There is one local also. It goes to East Aurora Toy Fest occasionally. Loud
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### Author:  [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/5 "2008-06-19T11:29:18Z")
> [@Fry](#):
>
> Put simply, gasoline contains potential energy. By burning it you convert potential to kinetic energy.
>
> Water doesn’t burn.
Exactly. That spark ignites a gas/air mixture in an enclosed space (the cylinder) and the rapidly expanding gases force the piston down. Put several pistons together and time the explosions correctly and they can smoothly turn the crank.
Just like the old steam powered cars didn’t run on water (they heated water into steam, so they really ran on what ever you were using to heat the water) these modern claims of running on water by splitting water into hydrogen and oyxgen aren’t running on water either.
They’re putting in a whole bunch of energy to break the hydrogen bonds to the oxygen molecule, so the car is running on what ever they are using to make that energy. Since that energy will always be less than the energy you get from 2 hyrdogen and 1 oxygen (water is a very stable bond) you will need an outside power source.
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### Author:  [@boxxa](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boxxa)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/6 "2008-06-19T11:47:24Z")
> [@JayS](#):
>
> Exactly. That spark ignites a gas/air mixture in an enclosed space (the cylinder) and the rapidly expanding gases force the piston down. Put several pistons together and time the explosions correctly and they can smoothly turn the crank.
>
> Just like the old steam powered cars didn’t run on water (they heated water into steam, so they really ran on what ever you were using to heat the water) these modern claims of running on water by splitting water into hydrogen and oyxgen aren’t running on water either.
>
> They’re putting in a whole bunch of energy to break the hydrogen bonds to the oxygen molecule, so the car is running on what ever they are using to make that energy. Since that energy will always be less than the energy you get from 2 hyrdogen and 1 oxygen (water is a very stable bond) you will need an outside power source.
So they are saying that it for it to really work, you need to have the burning of the O and H2 be enough to power the motor and also power the process to split them which is impossible?
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### Author:  [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/7 "2008-06-19T11:53:08Z")
> [@boxxa](#):
>
> So they are saying that it for it to really work, you need to have the burning of the O and H2 be enough to power the motor and also power the process to split them which is impossible?
:word: Violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
EDIT: Well, first and 2nd laws of thermodynamics. Can’t create or destroy energy, and energy can only flow downhill. Basically talking about perpetual motion.
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### Author:  [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/8 "2008-06-19T11:56:30Z")
This is also the reason why hydrogen is not an alternative fuel. It is simply a mode of energy transport, just like electricity. You can’t “mine” or “pump” it. It doesn’t exist naturally anywhere for you to just go get it and spend it. You have to make it.
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### Author:  [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/9 "2008-06-19T11:57:54Z")
> [@boxxa](#):
>
> So they are saying that it for it to really work, you need to have the burning of the O and H2 be enough to power the motor and also power the process to split them which is impossible?
Pretty much yeah. It takes a lot of power to split hydrogen and oxygen. Someone who took chemistry more recently than me can probably give you the formula to figure out exactly how much.
But basically nothing exists or looks like will exist in the near future that can break the hyrdrogen/oxygen bond using just the energy from 2 hydrogen 1 oxygen. If I could figure out how I’d be rich because science has been looking for an efficient way to do this for many many years.
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### Author:  [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/10 "2008-06-19T11:59:13Z")
> [@JayS](#):
>
> But basically nothing exists or looks like will exist in the near future that can break the hyrdrogen/oxygen bond using just the energy from 2 hydrogen 1 oxygen. If I could figure out how I’d be rich because science has been looking for an efficient way to do this for many many years.
Nope. It’s thermodynamically impossible. Only the uneducated would look for that.
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### Author:  [@boxxa](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boxxa)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/11 "2008-06-19T12:12:30Z")
Is that they the Honda car that runs on Hydrogen works is because it just uses pure hydrogen and doesn’t need to the energy to split anything to get it?
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### Author:  [@RuBiCaNT](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/RuBiCaNT)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/12 "2008-06-19T12:16:23Z")
> [@Fry](#):
>
> Nope. It’s thermodynamically impossible. Only the uneducated would look for that.
:rubicant: 🤣
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### Author:  [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:17pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/13 "2008-06-19T12:17:54Z")
> [@Fry](#):
>
> Nope. It’s thermodynamically impossible. Only the uneducated would look for that.
Anything with science is only impossible until someone does it and they have to re-write the laws. Most modern scientists have this know it all attitude that because nothing has been done in their time it will always be impossible. Then you get guys like John Kanzius who accidentally figured out you can break seawater’s hydrogen/oxygen bond with radio waves.
Who’s to say 100 years from now, or even a 1000, we don’t find a mechanical way to break that bond using a nanomachine or something else our generation never dreamed of.
A nice “top 10 scientific impossibilies proved wrong” list:
[http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/dn13556-10-impossibilities-conquered-by-science.html](http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/dn13556-10-impossibilities-conquered-by-science.html)
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### Author:  [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:21pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/14 "2008-06-19T12:21:28Z")
Yep.
> The FCX Clarity is capable of traveling about 270 miles before refueling,\* a reasonable distance for most people. When you do need fuel, it’s easy and safe to do at one of the designated hydrogen refueling stations in your area. The fill-up only takes a few minutes.
[http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/refueling.aspx](http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/refueling.aspx)
I don’t know off hand, but the hydrogen was probably created with electricity which would have been created at a power plant, possibly a coal power plant. So in reality it still runs of fossil fuels, but it’s far enough removed that they can market it as “clean.” Goofy huh? Such is the world we live in…
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### Author:  [@Pass\_McGass](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Pass_McGass)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:23pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/15 "2008-06-19T12:23:16Z")
Not to mention that a H2O powered car would probably have to run off of fresh water, and seeing how we are already seeing lakes drying up, water will be way too expensive to run your car. You’d need some kind of sodium filters to use ocean water.
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### Author:  [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:23pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/16 "2008-06-19T12:23:23Z")
> [@JayS](#):
>
> Anything with science is only impossible until someone does it and they have to re-write the laws. Most modern scientists have this know it all attitude that because nothing has been done in their time it will always be impossible. Then you get guys like John Kanzius who accidentally figured out you can break seawater’s hydrogen/oxygen bond with radio waves.
>
> Who’s to say 100 years from now, or even a 1000, we don’t find a mechanical way to break that bond using a nanomachine or something else our generation never dreamed of.
>
> A nice “top 10 scientific impossibilies proved wrong” list:
>
> [http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/dn13556-10-impossibilities-conquered-by-science.html](http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/dn13556-10-impossibilities-conquered-by-science.html)
Yeah you’re right. Some day perpetual motion will be possible.
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### Author:  [@JayS](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/JayS)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/17 "2008-06-19T12:27:39Z")
> [@Fry](#):
>
> I don’t know off hand, but the hydrogen was probably created with electricity which would have been created at a power plant, possibly a coal power plant. So in reality it still runs of fossil fuels, but it’s far enough removed that they can market it as “clean.” Goofy huh? Such is the world we live in…
And by the time you account for the hydrogen creation, distribution, storage and compression I’d be willing to put good money on it being much worse for the planet than driving a normal gas powered car. Fuel cells where the hydrogen was created and compressed using solar, wind or even nuclear would probably be pretty clean but driving an FCX today is probably about the same as using an Excursion as your single occupancy commuter car.
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### Author:  [@boxxa](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/boxxa)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/18 "2008-06-19T12:32:00Z")
Anyone know how much out of pocket it is to fill up the tank of hydrogen?
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### Author:  [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/19 "2008-06-19T12:50:51Z")
$12309482303498 dollars, but you get 21309841209 mpg.
Are there hydrogen stations in the US?
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### Author:  [@Fry](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Fry)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/water-powered-cars-why-not/55290/20 "2008-06-19T12:53:36Z")
…looks like there are about 60. 3 in NYS.[http://www.hydrogenassociation.org/general/fuelingResults.asp](http://www.hydrogenassociation.org/general/fuelingResults.asp)
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