# What can you do to a KA for extra power without a TURBO **URL:** \ **Category:** SON240sx Automotive\ **Created:** [November 6, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398 "2009-11-06T19:28:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ronnie416](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ronnie416/32/5480_2.png) [@ronnie416](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/ronnie416)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/41 "2009-11-09T19:02:43Z")
ummmm, 200 NA high compression vs 200 boosted WHP…I’m pretty sure I’d be much faster in the NA high comp around any fucking track, provided both cars are equal chassis wise. ---
**Author:** ![Solarian](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/solarian/32/5514_2.png) [@Solarian](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Solarian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/42 "2009-11-09T20:39:44Z")
That’s true, but I’d argue that with such a low number as 200whp, the turbo car would be MUCH more reliable and streetable, that and it would cost less than half the money too. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE N/A, but the KA is just not the right motor for that. If you want N/A, go big displacement, or go Honda. They’re the only ones that know how to build an N/A 4 banger, and actually get it right. ---
**Author:** ![accelr8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e99b99/32.png) [@accelr8](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/accelr8)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/43 "2009-11-09T22:50:47Z")
for the q45 throttle body i think you will need your ecu tuned.try adam or ebay for the q45 throttle body ---
**Author:** ![tosh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/58956e/32.png) [@tosh](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/tosh)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/44 "2009-11-11T00:01:55Z")
i can’t beleive the shit i am hearing right now. to build a NA ka with more than 200hp in mind would cost so much money that it is not worth it unless you run in a spec class or something. the machine work alone would cost a small fortune. to say the ka is crap is a stupid statment though. sure it not the best H-Preformance engine out there. but that is cause it wasn’t mant to be. its a good engine, it just ended up in the wrong car. if you really want NA hp look at different engines like, 4cly—F20c or a Beams 3sge 6cly—vq35de or 5vz-fe or maybe some in-line Bimmer engines 8cly—LSx or any small block for that matter. sky is the limit here ---
**Author:** ![Stiky](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/stiky/32/5692_2.png) [@Stiky](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Stiky)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 9:14am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/45 "2009-11-11T09:14:39Z")
Okay, machine work would not cost a small fortune. For a PROPERLY running boosted KA with NO issues, you’re looking at about $6000 with everything and that’s without a tune, because essentially you need to rebuild the motor with low comp pistons, then on top of that buy the turbo side of the block (manifold, turbo, etc), it’s just not worth it. For $4000 everything in, you could have a BOMB ass N/A KA running circles around a stock KA with a turbo kit and the same amount of money into it. Take this into account. Hypothetically if I had $6500 to spend on both motors here is what I would essentially do to both. KA Boosted **Bottom End:** Low Comp Pistons (I’ll spend the extra money here so I don’t need to worry later) Forged Rods (so my motor can handle high boost) Metal HG Machining Total : $2000 **Exhaust Side** Complete turbo kit from JGS Total: $1800 **Fuel System** Walbro 255 LPH 550CC Injectors Adjustable FPR Total: $1100 **Supporting Mods** Koyo Rad 2 Electric Fans Catch Can Total: $600 **Standalone ECU** MegaSquirt (so you can convert to MAP sensor and ditch the MAF) Tuning Total: $1000 **Grand Total: $6500** Even if you get steals on everything, you’re looking at about $6000 AT LEAST for a BASE KA-T with not even the top end touched, which will sacrifice performance a little. I called for a low comp rebuild on the bottom end because then that way you don’t have to worry about popping the motor under high boost. but with the RIGHT tuning it can become a very good reliable motor it’s just a very expensive route and I don’t see any drastic gains from it. Now lets see where $6500 will get you with a N/A motor. KA High Comp N/A **Bottom End** KA-E Flat Top Pistons Machine Work Metal HG Total: $1200 **Fuel System** (you can spend the extra money that you would spend on the turbo in a boosted car from here on making the N/A KA more refined) Walbro 255 LPH FP 740CC Injectors Adjustable FPR Total: $1300 **Supporting mods** ITB’s Oil Cooler Koyo Rad 2 Electric Fams BC Cams BC Valves/Valve Springs Header Total: $3000 **Standalone ECU** Mega Squirt Tuning Total: $1000 **Grand Total: $6500** So in my opinion, I would much rather have a fully refreshed high comp N/A KA that’s better than a brand new KA from the factory (completely redone top AND bottom end). Than a boosted low comp KA with a stock top end. It’s just simple, to boost a KA is uneconomical when you can get more power, more reliably out of a N/A high comp KA and in reality the only time you will lose is on long straights where the KA can build boost. In the corners the N/A KA will take the boosted one any day as there is no lag and incredible low end torque especially considering the set up I would be running, and the high end power can be fixed by a tune. As for the prices of what I am saying, I am going for all brand new parts, aside from the KA-E pistons, but if you’re building or boosting a motor rather, why would you put stuff like used turbos, SR manifolds and shit when it’s an investment on your line. I can not drive around thinking my motors going to blow if my boost spikes. Sure you could have a boosted KA for $2500 but how reliable will it be and for how long? For a reliable KA N/A is the way to go, unless you want quick fun and don’t care about popping your motor. ---
**Author:** ![Solarian](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/solarian/32/5514_2.png) [@Solarian](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Solarian)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/46 "2009-11-11T18:40:32Z")
I disagree completely. The Turbo KA listed would make a shit ton more power, and be more reliable than the N/A build. Unless of course, you choose not to rev your N/A and make no power. The stress on the motor from prolonged high rpm use, greatly exceeds that from boost. ---
**Author:** ![accelr8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e99b99/32.png) [@accelr8](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/accelr8)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/47 "2009-11-11T18:57:40Z")
for the amount of $6500 i rather swap in a vh45de.with the following mods vh45de $800 vg tranny $200 vh into s chassis power steering adapter $155 headers $895 vh/vg tranny adapter plate,motor mounts and drive shaft $1550 supertech springs and retainers $593 cam regrinds $1150 z32 clutch $195 vg/vh into s chassis conversion harnes $240 romtune $350 all from mazworx.so total would be about $5200 converted you will get at least 300+ hp ---
**Author:** ![Stiky](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/stiky/32/5692_2.png) [@Stiky](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Stiky)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/48 "2009-11-11T19:55:47Z")
Yeah but the OP said KA non turbo. There is problems with each. The good thing is with a KA you can throw on a turbo kit, drive the shit out of it for the weekend, then pick up a new motor for $200 and swap it in. ---
**Author:** ![tosh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/58956e/32.png) [@tosh](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/tosh)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/49 "2009-11-11T23:42:41Z")
Sticky, i was in the same boat as you. i had alot of my parts for an NA build but sold the car awhile back. but i knew for a fact 250ps was not gonna happen. i would have considered myself lucky if i hit 200 with the same set of mods(less the cams). dollar for dollar boosting these engines is the only way to go if you want real hp out of them FOR THE MONEY you put into them. put it this way, an f20c will give you the about the same power output WITH factory reliablilty and 6 gears. have you ever seen this engine in an AE86? awesome. now an s13 coupe weighs about 200lbs more but should move the car just as well with the right final drive. peace ---
**Author:** ![Stiky](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/stiky/32/5692_2.png) [@Stiky](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Stiky)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/50 "2009-11-12T05:30:40Z")
I’m in no boat. I found my motor and that’s the RB20 but if I had extra cash kicking around I’d build an N/A KA. ---
**Author:** ![corpse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@corpse](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/corpse)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/51 "2009-11-13T15:50:19Z")
i think the original poster is asking for CHEAP power… but i might be wrong ---
**Author:** ![Solarian](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/solarian/32/5514_2.png) [@Solarian](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Solarian)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/52 "2009-11-13T22:30:13Z")
If the OP wants cheap power, TURBO is the cheapest way to power. No way around it. ---
**Author:** ![Skinny](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/skinny/32/5584_2.png) [@Skinny](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/Skinny)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/53 "2009-11-13T23:06:20Z")
nitrous is the cheapest power adder ---
**Author:** ![240xcsv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/bbe5ce/32.png) [@240xcsv](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/240xcsv)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/54 "2009-11-14T05:11:17Z")
^that lol You get what you pay for /thread. Now we’re talking big power + reliability. It’s gona cost money cmon… obviously. I budgeted a ka-t build around 8000CAD~… for what i wanted… around 400-450whp with low-mid end or 600whp with top end only in mind (based on turbo selection, boost, etc…) that was wtih a full block/head complete engine build, etc… and i think that was without a standalone priced in, which would be another 1000~. I did this through ka-t forums. What all of them regret was paying cheap then spending more in the long run, i basically calc’d out what it would cost for a reliable build that can run that over and over again taking into account cooling obviously and other factors. That done and done… I figured… u know what I want an LS v8… no comparison as there is no replacement for displacement. I’ve looked at VQ, and other options but at the end you will want more power and you will end up spending more. NA there is no other choice than LS v8… theres other v8s… bu they are either heavier or with less power… seriously. My only concern with fitting the LS v8 is well fitting it as low and far back as possible and cooling and oiling issues for track. That is all. Ultimately I could do a rear mounted twin turbo setup as well… Now with off the shelf parts i budgeted about 10,000$ for the whole swap for about 400whp~… now that may not seem like alot… but ur getting that from an NA v8… meaning you will have the power band from low to high flat… ridiculously easy to extract more power. if i was in the states im sure i could do it for a lot cheaper… However… that being said and done, to mod the LS is fun, throw a cam, intake, increase compression, tune, etc… it is in fact possible to make 500whp NA… ridiculous… however if im shooting for 600whp, supercharging or rear twin turbo = win. Initially all I care about is 300whp… i could get that from an SR, but i dont want headaches. I want something bullet proof that can be raped on the track and take me home safely. I have too many things on mind and too little time to be wasting time wrencing when shit blows up. I have a life and this is just a hobby on the side. So reliability is a key factor. I know this is all hypothetical talk, but you have to know what your goal is… if you just keep cheapening out in the short term you will end up spending more in the long term… just friendly advice. Hence, I enjoy my KA for what it is right now 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AhmadG](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ahmadg/32/5577_2.png) [@AhmadG](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/AhmadG)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/55 "2009-11-15T20:25:06Z")
NA KA, whaaat is it gooood fooo…ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! HOAAAA! Sorry. If I was to build an N/A engine, I’d stay far away from a KA. Most people’s reasoning for going N/A is reliability and cost. Neither of those will be achieveable if a lot of power is to be outputted in a DD. Just do a little T25 bottom mount setup with 370cc injectors and whoop stock SR ass all day. ---
**Author:** ![TorontoGT-R33](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/torontogt-r33/32/5500_2.png) [@TorontoGT-R33](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/TorontoGT-R33)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/56 "2009-11-15T20:25:29Z")
> [@Working on saturday sucks...](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/working-on-saturday-sucks/24700/4): > > Push your car down a hill, that’s the only way you can make an NA KA faster. Around 200whp is a daydream, whoever got near there was setting record numbers on race fuel, the most people actually get is 160-170whp. Anthony beat me to it! Here’s another solution: Attach an SR20DET to it! Just weld the driveshaft from an SR to the Crank pulley of the KA!!! There you go! ---
**Author:** ![AhmadG](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forums.speedlife.net/ahmadg/32/5577_2.png) [@AhmadG](https://forums.speedlife.net/u/AhmadG)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398/57 "2009-11-15T20:40:37Z")
Note to OP, never ask for KA advise on SON, period. Another note, never go N/A with a KA unless its basic mods like I/H/E, period. [Previous page](https://forums.speedlife.net/t/what-can-you-do-to-a-ka-for-extra-power-without-a-turbo/129398.md?page=2)